Armoured Artillery Vehicles in spore?
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GPS-guided rounds in active-service in SAF? now that's news to me...
Can tell me what type of rounds they are? Cargo or normal HE with earth penetrators?
Also, why are they used for ranging? I mean, GPS rounds are GUIDED, why would anyone use a GUIDED round to range for unguided rounds?
I still find it hard to believe that we already have GPS rounds, considering the pretty immense technical hurdles to developing such a round. The Americans are still trying to develop such a round in the form of the Excalibur, and huge cost per round is still an issue. -
the conventional way of ranging would be deploying forward observation team to guide and call for ranging targets. by deployin GPS rounds, we can do away wif forward observation laision teams.Originally posted by YourFather:GPS-guided rounds in active-service in SAF? now that's news to me...
Can tell me what type of rounds they are? Cargo or normal HE with earth penetrators?
Also, why are they used for ranging? I mean, GPS rounds are GUIDED, why would anyone use a GUIDED round to range for unguided rounds?
I still find it hard to believe that we already have GPS rounds, considering the pretty immense technical hurdles to developing such a round. The Americans are still trying to develop such a round in the form of the Excalibur, and huge cost per round is still an issue.
not to mention if they were to be captured by enemy forces, along with their mission codes, classified infor on targets , authentification tables as well as frequencies at which they use to listen for mission updates would fall into enemy's hands. -
Sorry, but that still doesn't make sense to me (bear with me, I'm quite ignorant about arty fire procedures
). I assumed you mean in your earlier post that GPS rounds is used only for initial fire, then subsequent "fire for effect" is done using normal rounds. Is that what you meant?
Issit possible for you to elaborate furher on how GPS-guided rounds is used in SAF? Also, to use a round which costs possibly $10,000+ (by normal estimates for guided arty rounds) just for ranging sounds pretty wasteful.... -
yes, that's one of the way the gps rounds are used.Originally posted by YourFather:Sorry, but that still doesn't make sense to me (bear with me, I'm quite ignorant about arty fire procedures ). I assumed you mean in your earlier post that GPS rounds is used only for initial fire, then subsequent "fire for effect" is done using normal rounds. Is that what you meant?
Issit possible for you to elaborate furher on how GPS-guided rounds is used in SAF? Also, to use a round which costs possibly $10,000+ (by normal estimates for guided arty rounds) just for ranging sounds pretty wasteful....
if we were to used GPs rounds for each and every rounds we fire, which means around 60 for a final nesutralisiation mission then the cost would be much higher than firin usin F16 with guided missiles. -
No sane person will use GPS-guided rounds for suppressive fires, not with its accuracy. Why not use it the same way the US uses it? Like the use of GPS rounds for responsive fire on high value targets, and normal rounds for suppression? Its not as if there'll ALWAYS be CAS on call, yes? This seems a better way.
Also, I still cannot figure out why a guided round would be useful for ranging unguided rounds? A guided round will need no ranging, yes? Because its already guided, all that's needed is the precise coordinates of the desired aimpoint. But since its guided, how can it be used to range for unguided rounds? Please enlighten. -
Surprisingly enough, the development plans for the US Army is for more GPS guided rounds to be used for all their future artillery use, so as to "lower the cost per kill".
With the cost of miniature electronic technologies now available and becoming ever cheaper each year, it will not be surprising for the development in this direction.
See the following articles -
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/cm-gps.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/m982-155.htm -
Other than GPS rounds, would it be feasible to develop a millimeter wave guide like the German SMART and an IR guided munition like the Swedish-Franco BONUS round?
Anyway, I've found an interesting whitepaper about submunitions, and it can found at
http://www.leavenworth.army.mil/threats/whitepapers/ADHPM.doc -
The GPS rounds might be used to correct arty fire. The round itself is unguided, but it transmits back the location where it lands. Then it can be compared to the location where it was supposed to land, and the guns laid correctly for the actual salvo. Normally this correction must be done by a FO near the target who radios back how far off the rounds are falling (actually, all infantry officers and many specialists also know how to do this). If the first arty round out can do it instead, it saves manpower and minimizes risk to personnel. After all, FOs are hunted down mercilessly by the enemy since they literally call down fire from heaven.
This kind of GPS round is different from the American Excalibur. The Excalibur actually is able to correct its trajectory in flight and is a guided round. Our rounds may just be normal unguided rounds with a GPS receiver and location transmitter. -
Yet another excellent site:
http://www.vectorsite.net/twbombb.html
This site also contains many articles about almost anything -
Ah San, They are technically called self-propelled artillery or self-propelled gun (SPG). We have only 120mm mortar mounted on M113 that I am aware of . The rest of them (M71, FH-88, FH2000) are all towed.Originally posted by ah san:hi , was juz wondering whether we haf any Armoured Artillery Vehicles in spore?
if haf? specs?
if not ? why?
thanks all....juz curious...
happy holiday...
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Now this makes MUCH more sense.... I was all along thinking in the line of the Excalibur..... If what we have is like what you said, then our rounds ain't too much to brag about.... (though its a pretty nifty capabilityOriginally posted by dkhoo:The GPS rounds might be used to correct arty fire. The round itself is unguided, but it transmits back the location where it lands. Then it can be compared to the location where it was supposed to land, and the guns laid correctly for the actual salvo. Normally this correction must be done by a FO near the target who radios back how far off the rounds are falling (actually, all infantry officers and many specialists also know how to do this). If the first arty round out can do it instead, it saves manpower and minimizes risk to personnel. After all, FOs are hunted down mercilessly by the enemy since they literally call down fire from heaven.
This kind of GPS round is different from the American Excalibur. The Excalibur actually is able to correct its trajectory in flight and is a guided round. Our rounds may just be normal unguided rounds with a GPS receiver and location transmitter. ) -
Its a good thing to note that NON of these smart munitions (SADARM, SMART, BONUS and PELICAN) have ANY capability to engage moving targets at the moment.... So I guess their usefulness is limited unless used against dug in targets or counter-arty fire......Originally posted by Joe Black:Other than GPS rounds, would it be feasible to develop a millimeter wave guide like the German SMART and an IR guided munition like the Swedish-Franco BONUS round?
Anyway, I've found an interesting whitepaper about submunitions, and it can found at
http://www.leavenworth.army.mil/threats/whitepapers/ADHPM.doc -
The only things that can hit moving targets are Hellfire fired from a Predator UAV, or a BAT munition dropped from a UAV. I wonder MMV rmortar rounds like Merlin can hit moving targets.Originally posted by YourFather:Its a good thing to note that NON of these smart munitions (SADARM, SMART, BONUS and PELICAN) have ANY capability to engage moving targets at the moment.... So I guess their usefulness is limited unless used against dug in targets or counter-arty fire......
Anyway, we are talking about counter arty batteries, so assume they are relatively stationary even in shoot and scoot missions. Unless they decide to shoot 1 round, move somewhere, shoot another round, move again... etc. -
well said!!!Originally posted by dkhoo:The GPS rounds might be used to correct arty fire. The round itself is unguided, but it transmits back the location where it lands. Then it can be compared to the location where it was supposed to land, and the guns laid correctly for the actual salvo. Normally this correction must be done by a FO near the target who radios back how far off the rounds are falling (actually, all infantry officers and many specialists also know how to do this). If the first arty round out can do it instead, it saves manpower and minimizes risk to personnel. After all, FOs are hunted down mercilessly by the enemy since they literally call down fire from heaven.
This kind of GPS round is different from the American Excalibur. The Excalibur actually is able to correct its trajectory in flight and is a guided round. Our rounds may just be normal unguided rounds with a GPS receiver and location transmitter.
although officers in the infantry are trained to do that, but now the task is still left to the FOs and signallers of the artillery.
not only does hunting down the FOs stop the fire from "hell", along with the FOs are the various important info such as the frequeny at which SAF is usin in commmunication. not to mention, the authentification tables ( for those who know wat they are how they are use, will know) codes name for way points. these infor could be used to call for fire against our own troops!