Jungle warfare in Singapore?
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Heh. This is going to sound stupid, I think.
Why doesn't Singapore urbanise the whole of the land and specialise in urban warfare?
If it really does, it would be the first in the world, I guess. -
it is a stupid idea...
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Originally posted by Master -_-:it is a stupid idea... Why?
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i dunno
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Simply because... Its got something to do about fighting on our land. Go figure.
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Originally posted by EXCO:Simply because... Its got something to do about fighting on our land. Go figure.
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Frankly , u can urbanise this island but yet we still have to specialise in both urban and jungle warfare. Our doctrine isnt on 'sit-duck' defence but defense through offensive ( all shld know ) , so if we specialise in urban warfare , we will get shitted in country X and Y while fighting in their jungles....Originally posted by Parka: Heh. This is going to sound stupid, I think.
Why doesn't Singapore urbanise the whole of the land and specialise in urban warfare?
If it really does, it would be the first in the world, I guess.
Of course we still have to major in urban warfare in case enemy manage to sneak in , and not forgeting our X and Y neighbours have cities too... -
if ur some bigshot in Mindef n u change the Doctrine to urban warfare..it will be Vietnam war Singapore way..we all be dead meat..
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i think most military ppl will tell u tt FIBUA (fighting in built up areas) r more difficult than fighting in the forest or jungle.
tt said, its quite impossible to urbanise the entire singapore! we need some training and testing plots. and somemore, yah... even if we urbanise our whole entire island, it will oni change the doctrine of some other countries and not our own, since its unlike our likely aggressor will urbanise the whole of their country! -
Singapore is already considered to be 100% urban. Those little patches of "jungle" you see around are too small to count.
But of course, the reason why we train in jungle warfare is because we will not be fighting in Singapore unless a war goes very badly. In a conflict we will attack first and capture enough of the enemy's territory to at least create a buffer zone, if not destroy his warmaking ability completely. The war will be one where the enemy tries to retake his land from us.
Or at least, that is the plan. -
After reading all these post, it seems that we have to attack the enemies in their homeground to win. Then I think it would be wise to have more powerful explosive for use.
When defending, does one has the right to do anything we want? Like bombing the enemy's area to dust???? -
Originally posted by wuming78:i think most military ppl will tell u tt FIBUA (fighting in built up areas) r more difficult than fighting in the forest or jungle.
tt said, its quite impossible to urbanise the entire singapore! we need some training and testing plots. and somemore, yah... even if we urbanise our whole entire island, it will oni change the doctrine of some other countries and not our own, since its unlike our likely aggressor will urbanise the whole of their country! Of course it's possible to urbanise the whole island. Hahaha. I don't know why you say it's impossible. On financial and technical grounds, Singapore definitely has the capability to concrete the whole island.
Haha. So what if the public complains? As if they have the power to do anything. -
Originally posted by NathanG5:if ur some bigshot in Mindef n u change the Doctrine to urban warfare..it will be Vietnam war Singapore way..we all be dead meat.. Jia lat. I don't know vietnam war. Got any movies to recommend??
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yeah u're rite... actualli i wont be surprised if someday in the future singapore is totally 100% urbanised!Originally posted by Parka: Of course it's possible to urbanise the whole island. Hahaha. I don't know why you say it's impossible. On financial and technical grounds, Singapore definitely has the capability to concrete the whole island.
Haha. So what if the public complains? As if they have the power to do anything. -
in war both sides can realli do anything as long as they do not do inhumane things like mistreatment of POW, civilians. other than tt, the winner is the one whose guns r bigger! (and more)Originally posted by Parka: After reading all these post, it seems that we have to attack the enemies in their homeground to win. Then I think it would be wise to have more powerful explosive for use.
When defending, does one has the right to do anything we want? Like bombing the enemy's area to dust???? -
This is a very good question, and I think that is the main flaw in SAF doctrine. We have to have much more training in Urban warfare. jungle training is a total waste of time. People will tell you that the SAF will not fight in S'pore but will conduct offensive operations in a foreign country that has a lot of jungle. Therefore, we must train for jungle warfare. Well, I don' know any army that won a war by holding the jungle or plantations. The Vietcong fought the US Army for 10 years from the jungle, and were undisputed jungle warfare champions, but that got them nothing. Its only when they capture the major urban centres of Saigon, Hue, etc. that they won the war. Likewise, in order to win, the SAF has to capture and hold the ports, airports, main communicatiion centres, and capture the military and political leadership. Well, all these people and strcutures are not in the jungle. They are in BUAs. MINDEF better wake up their ideas and get with the program.Originally posted by Parka: Heh. This is going to sound stupid, I think.
Why doesn't Singapore urbanise the whole of the land and specialise in urban warfare?
If it really does, it would be the first in the world, I guess. -
the US did not win the Vietnam war pls..get ur facts rite..Originally posted by On the way:This is a very good question, and I think that is the main flaw in SAF doctrine. We have to have much more training in Urban warfare. jungle training is a total waste of time. People will tell you that the SAF will not fight in S'pore but will conduct offensive operations in a foreign country that has a lot of jungle. Therefore, we must train for jungle warfare. Well, I don' know any army that won a war by holding the jungle or plantations. The Vietcong fought the US Army for 10 years from the jungle, and were undisputed jungle warfare champions, but that got them nothing. Its only when they capture the major urban centres of Saigon, Hue, etc. that they won the war. Likewise, in order to win, the SAF has to capture and hold the ports, airports, main communicatiion centres, and capture the military and political leadership. Well, all these people and strcutures are not in the jungle. They are in BUAs. MINDEF better wake up their ideas and get with the program.
do u noe wat stand between Singapore n those so call BUAs?
its Jungle...if u just want purely Urban Warfare..tis is the scenerio..1 brigate went into the jungle one platoon come out of it...
read ur map 1st..n dun ask SAF to wake up their ideas..im sure they have much smarter pples like u..guess u never been to any rural country eh? -
I tell u what, I will get my facts right, if u learn how to read english, ok? Where in my post did I say the US won? I specifically said the Vietcong won. Is it better if i communicate with u in another language? U know what stands between S'pore and those BUAs? The causeway and 1 bridge at Tuas. Did you see any jungle on the causeway? Maybe you can't read english and are blind on top of that. There is a perfectly good North south highway. Only people like you will go by jungle. By the way, now mostly palmoil and rubber plantations. I got news for u. Maybe you have never left S'pore island before, but I let u in on a little secret. Before you can even get to your favourite jungle my friend, you have to go thru JB. You know what they call JB? a BUA. U think you are going to bash thru JB with your jungle fighting skill? At the next incamp, better ask them to teach u more FIBUA.Originally posted by NathanG5:the US did not win the Vietnam war pls..get ur facts rite..
do u noe wat stand between Singapore n those so call BUAs?
its Jungle...if u just want purely Urban Warfare..tis is the scenerio..1 brigate went into the jungle one platoon come out of it...
read ur map 1st..n dun ask SAF to wake up their ideas..im sure they have much smarter pples like u..guess u never been to any rural country eh? -
its my bad abt the US win..sori dudeOriginally posted by On the way:I tell u what, I will get my facts right, if u learn how to read english, ok? Where in my post did I say the US won? I specifically said the Vietcong won. Is it better if i communicate with u in another language? U know what stands between S'pore and those BUAs? The causeway and 1 bridge at Tuas. Did you see any jungle on the causeway? Maybe you can't read english and are blind on top of that. There is a perfectly good North south highway. Only people like you will go by jungle. By the way, now mostly palmoil and rubber plantations. I got news for u. Maybe you have never left S'pore island before, but I let u in on a little secret. Before you can even get to your favourite jungle my friend, you have to go thru JB. You know what they call JB? a BUA. U think you are going to bash thru JB with your jungle fighting skill? At the next incamp, better ask them to teach u more FIBUA.
oh sure...the good north highway..great..i guess the Msian gona let u cross the highway just like tats great now u got a hundred kilometres of unguarded route for us..and ic...JB..oh...just take JB onli eh? so i guess we just gona push head on to JB eh?
ur funny dude..ive been to Msia frequently..i drive there..u noe wat i c there between some of the route..massive jungle..guess u never to Msia? n thanx for reminding me abt asking my unit to give me more Fibua training.. -
Hmm , i believe that anyone with a right mind on military strategies wont ask SAF to wake up their idea on Jungle warfare. Our region is pre-dominanted by jungle and forest , it is inevitable that battle will be drawn into the jungle as it is the best place for a defensive stand. U can clear the whole urban region of malaysia , with the jungle untouch , u wan them to play 'gorilla'Originally posted by On the way:U know what stands between S'pore and those BUAs? The causeway and 1 bridge at Tuas. Did you see any jungle on the causeway? Maybe you can't read english and are blind on top of that. There is a perfectly good North south highway. Only people like you will go by jungle. By the way, now mostly palmoil and rubber plantations. I got news for u. Maybe you have never left S'pore island before, but I let u in on a little secret. Before you can even get to your favourite jungle my friend, you have to go thru JB. You know what they call JB? a BUA. U think you are going to bash thru JB with your jungle fighting skill? At the next incamp, better ask them to teach u more FIBUA.
on u?? Do u know how much an offensive stand a jungle can provide for the enemy...?
Take the Vietnam for example , y the US force will have to fight years in to jungle other than jus FIBUA in Hanoi???
If the SAF will to wake up the idea....... U wanna change the uniform from green to pink? -
The Tuas 2nd link thingie... at the malaysian side of the border is JUNGLE.... In an event of war.. who de hell would wanna travel on a totally exposed expressway? If it seemed unguarded... be more cautious because the whole stretch of expressway might be booby trapped, within support arti fire or pincer defense strategy...
Simple.... Lets say a division of sg armour rolling happily and unharrassed on the NS highway... the defensive units can just wait at the jungled areas on both sides of the highway and wait till most of our tanks are surrounded and in range of their units. Launch an ambush... tada... 1 division goes kaput.
And for your post in the Light tank thread On The Way, We don't see a need for an mbt of 50tons... maybe just come up with a tank destroyer hybrid with the Bionix chasis... Should be good enuff.... -
To moonstriker,
Actually, the area around the second link in not considered Jungle. That is just mangrove swampland. Jungle is something you get deeper into Johore or Pahang.
And as for jungle fighting, there is NO need for jungle fighting so near into Singapore. That bit of land is definately within art range. So you can bombard the hell out of anything coming from that location.
Its up to the strategy people to determine what we want to do if (a big if) we have to drive north. If we want to go all the way and deliver a knockout blow, then FIBUA training is more important. If we want to do a halfhearted foray into Johore and establish the Mersing Line, then jungle (or plantation) fighting is important.
For me, I don't believe any fight with the neightbour up north is a halfhearted affair. It will end up with an army in Perlis or in Sentosa. Any other way will not be able to settle the issue to their or our satisfaction.
And the MAF is definately mobile, especially with their huge numbers of civiliian vehicles. There is no way we are going to establish the mersing line without getting our rear areas penetrated. -
then they sure copy republician guards and use hit and run tactics with their civilian vehicles..... watch the troops drop like flies and morale dengenerate...
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A jungle is not so bright lohOriginally posted by Moonstriker:The Tuas 2nd link thingie... at the malaysian side of the border is JUNGLE.... In an event of war.. who de hell would wanna travel on a totally exposed expressway? If it seemed unguarded... be more cautious because the whole stretch of expressway might be booby trapped, within support arti fire or pincer defense strategy...
Simple.... Lets say a division of sg armour rolling happily and unharrassed on the NS highway... the defensive units can just wait at the jungled areas on both sides of the highway and wait till most of our tanks are surrounded and in range of their units. Launch an ambush... tada... 1 division goes kaput.
And for your post in the Light tank thread On The Way, We don't see a need for an mbt of 50tons... maybe just come up with a tank destroyer hybrid with the Bionix chasis... Should be good enuff.... -
precisely~
Anyway... a good defence is offence... ;>