Commando unit barred from SAF competition
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By David Boey
THE crack Commando unit has been barred from competing for one of the military's top honours because of cheating involving record-keeping and fitness scores.
Several personnel from the 1st Commando Battalion are also facing disciplinary action.
This is believed to be the first time a Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) unit has been booted out of the competition for the Best Combat Unit award. It is a major blow to the Commandos, who hold the record for having won the annual award 17 times, since the contest started in 1969.
The battalion last won it in 2001. Last year, it was edged out of the top spot by the 40th Singapore Armoured Regiment. The red berets' bid to reclaim the honours, given out every year during SAF Day celebrations on July 1, ended late last year.
In response to The Straits Times' queries, the Defence Ministry (Mindef) yesterday confirmed that irregularities were uncovered in late 2002 in the logistics or storekeeping records of one of the sub-units of 1st Commando Battalion. There were also discrepancies in the individual fitness test scores reported by two of the unit's specialists, who handle the stores.
A ministry spokesman said: 'The SAF takes a serious view of such matters. As a result, the unit was disallowed from participating in the Best Unit Competition for the year. This is to uphold the integrity and high standards of the competition.' Disciplinary action is being taken against the individuals concerned.
Word of the Commandos' ban has been making its rounds in defence-linked Internet chatrooms.
It is believed that storekeepers, who are tasked with managing all supplies from light bulbs to spare tyres, doctored some paperwork to account for missing items.
Army inspectors unmasked the cover-up during a logistics readiness inspection at the battalion. The inspection, which assess the level of competence of storekeepers in SAF units, is part of the selection process in the best-unit competition.
The year-long assessment also grades SAF units on matters like battle readiness, administrative efficiency, marksmanship, manpower issues and the way the unit handles security matters.
The unit with the highest overall score receives the Best Combat Unit trophy from the President during the SAF Day parade on July 1. The winning unit also gets to safeguard the SAF Colours - a top honour reserved for the best unit in the SAF.
The 1st Commando Battalion, based at Hendon Camp near Changi Point, has traditionally been regarded as the leading contender for the trophy because some of the fittest and most motivated national servicemen are selected for commando training. -
Word of the Commandos' ban has been making its rounds in defence-linked Internet chatrooms.
Hmmm....where are some of these forums anyone know?
b] -
they onli tok abt the logistic cheating...not the fitness score cheating..any info on it?
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One can be sure is folks there will need to be on the ball.Originally posted by IAF:Hmmm....where are some of these forums anyone know?
Super-ON now considering Mindef is CO's back
No more sun-sand-sleep at this Changi camp.
Those in logistics knows there are ALWAYS coverups at any
routine checks. Problem is what kinda of thing is lost. NVG ?
magazines ? laser-rng finder ? This things can't be covered by
1206 alone. BOI will need to be convined. Maybe that is why
cheatings began just for the sack of that trohpy.
Was it worth it ???
Some heads will roll for sure. -
SAF intranet.Originally posted by IAF:Hmmm....where are some of these forums anyone know? -
Judging from this report....i think this yearly SAF best unit competition has a dark unhealthy "Enronesque" side to it. From people i know, this 'cooking the books' business is widely practiced...even during my NSF days. Of course, each unit practices it to varying degrees
Being an army in peacetime (something to be thankful for anyway) i guess everything is all 'paper-play"..no two ways abt it
i remember during a time in Starlight...when i overheard a ROC personnel remarking that the SAF is really obsessed with 'papers' when he observed that lots of SAF forms change hands during handing over and taking over of eqmt. -
Paper play or not, I still prefer the SAF way over the Taiwanese . Maybe that is why those ROC pple sees their guest opertes with too many red tapes while theirs allows lotsa leeways;Originally posted by IAF:i remember during a time in Starlight...when i overheard a ROC personnel remarking that the SAF is really obsessed with 'papers' when he observed that lots of SAF forms change hands during handing over and taking over of eqmt.
Crashing planes, stolen rifles, missing ammos etc etc.
I mean, we know military logistics is hell even during peace time.
See how the Malaysia trimmed their NS programes so much upon realising the enormous cost and manpower needed to run such organisation. -
last time i heard from an ex commando guy that they went training somewhere in spore and they lost a milan round, whole thing was covered up and they went to win best unit. another fren of mine who was at TAB FDS told me of an incident in 96/97 when airbases will have exercises to simulated war time and commandos are sent to attack TAB. What the commandos did was to switch off their laser vest and the PDF reservists cannot 'kill' them as the vests are deactivated. So the reservists were very du lan with commandos and in the middle of the night instead of exercise they were going to fight each other, the accessors step in to stop the fight. From there onwards, commandos were never involved in air base exercises. what rsaf do is get FDS from another airbase to 'attack' the airbase having exercise.
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It's called Code Red. When something bad happens, everyone chips in to cover the top dog.
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my units also have very unpleasant experience with those guniang commandos..
they only want to win, through cheating or even bullshiting, as long as they win... they dont care about anything else...
in one of my units exercise where the commandos were the opposing forces.. they bloody hell also switch off their miles and make themselve invincible and charged up a hill filled with landmine, claymore mines, tripwires, concertina wires, arty barrages, machine gun fire and a whole company of defenders like they all superman ...
in the end... there was no other way out... the excercise became a real fight it out with rifles smashing right into their streaking face... no quarters were given... we actually end up with real causalties
BUT
they fell into our trap... just when they were shouting victory.. they discovered that they are now surrounded by 3 companies of soldiers... the result was obvious, the umpire declare commando lost the battle..
YET... they actually challenge the umpires decision and DEMAND a rematch
the umpire just replied.... how can dead soldier demand a rematch???
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bloody idiots... what kind of "training" is this?
bet you the less-than-useless REMFs forced them to do this... -
Hmmm...I've heard similar stories about the more 'elite' units as well...Originally posted by the Bear:bloody idiots... what kind of "training" is this?
bet you the less-than-useless REMFs forced them to do this...
As for the REMFs, I doubt they did it on their own. I'll bet some of the higher ups had a hand in this, either by 'suggesting' this course of action or looking the other way.
Getting this Best Unit thing has become an overblown deal to some units. Same s*** with the school ranking deal, what was a means to an end has become the end itself...talk about losing focus -
This is not good. If our commando units are this bad, Singapore is in deep shit if there's a war.
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the fault actually lies with SAF...
if i am correct... the CO of the unit that got the best combat unit award stands high on the list of promotion...
it becoming a farce.. this guniang competition...
in fact.. there are LEGAL cheating methods to win the title...
but i digress.. perhaps some units do really deserve the win and the title... but then .. honest units... probably dont stand much of a chance...
just in case i step on some guniang SAF toes... let me clarify that the above is my personal opinion... it might be or might not be true... a personal perception if you like... i dont want any problem with OSA...
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no one is perfect, commandos included
let it rest peeps -
i think my last post has been rather harsh on the men and women of SAF...
true... that in my time with SAF... there are good, bad and ok ok officers and men... and i believe it still is so....
SAF is a big tree... there are bound to have a few guniang apples...
and sometimes... i wonder if the situation could be a result of the scholar policies... where officers without scholistic papers are forced into such drastic actions to prevent themselves from being condemmed... i dont know... but it could be...
furthermore... it appears that we might be overblowing this cheating thingy... afterall, the fault of a storeman cannot, and should not have resulted in an entire battalion being penalised... maybe MINDEF is simply too horseshit and disregarded the morals of the commandos... its downright unfair in my views...
maybe MINDEF can minus their points, but i seriously doubt MINDEF should punish the entire battalion, its downright unfair in my view to the other men and officers of 1st commando... who did their best and gave their best...
technically... we all want to win... please tell me... which unit likes to loose? if we like to loose.. then wat kind of security would SAF be providing singaporeans?
i sincerely feels that MINDEF should review their decision... i dont think its right of me to have been so emotional... true.. i hate those commandos... but we all belong to SAF... and though we may be from different units, we share common burden and a common mission...
perhaps, commandos could review their pass actions... all might not be lost... the commandos could come out of this disgrace even stronger...
i wish them well and may they win the next best combat unit award....
cheer up commandos... and kick your guniang song about you people leading the way and we infantry piggy back you all... afterall... we are behind you to back you people up in the field you know... -
no one asked for perfection..
however, integrity and honesty is expected...
and worse, cheating in training is only going to harm our soldiers...
the more real the training, the less people will die when it is needed.. haven't the REMFs figured this basic fact?
sheesh!Originally posted by whiteillum:no one is perfect, commandos included
let it rest peeps -
could it be, like many organisations, the bad ones backstab their way to the top, and then the rot cascades?Originally posted by tripwire:i think my last post has been rather harsh on the men and women of SAF...
true... that in my time with SAF... there are good, bad and ok ok officers and men... and i believe it still is so....
SAF is a big tree... there are bound to have a few guniang apples...
and sometimes... i wonder if the situation could be a result of the scholar policies... where officers without scholistic papers are forced into such drastic actions to prevent themselves from being condemmed... i dont know... but it could be...
furthermore... it appears that we might be overblowing this cheating thingy... afterall, the fault of a storeman cannot, and should not have resulted in an entire battalion being penalised... maybe MINDEF is simply too horseshit and disregarded the morals of the commandos... its downright unfair in my views...
maybe MINDEF can minus their points, but i seriously doubt MINDEF should punish the entire battalion, its downright unfair in my view to the other men and officers of 1st commando... who did their best and gave their best...
technically... we all want to win... please tell me... which unit likes to loose? if we like to loose.. then wat kind of security would SAF be providing singaporeans?
i sincerely feels that MINDEF should review their decision... i dont think its right of me to have been so emotional... true.. i hate those commandos... but we all belong to SAF... and though we may be from different units, we share common burden and a common mission...
perhaps, commandos could review their pass actions... all might not be lost... the commandos could come out of this disgrace even stronger...
i wish them well and may they win the next best combat unit award....
cheer up commandos... and kick your guniang song about you people leading the way and we infantry piggy back you all... afterall... we are behind you to back you people up in the field you know... -
Putting the blame squarely on some lowly logistics spec or enlistee and hanging him will not help matters. Thats called scapegoating.Originally posted by the Bear:no one asked for perfection..
however, integrity and honesty is expected...
and worse, cheating in training is only going to harm our soldiers...
the more real the training, the less people will die when it is needed.. haven't the REMFs figured this basic fact?
sheesh!
We need to use this incident to realise that this culture of one-upmanship and elitism, if taken too far, will do no good in the long run, and examine on ways to change this mindset. The posts about the actions of the Commandoes by the other posters just goes to show that this competitive mindset has been taken too far. To the point that winning is everything, never mind how you get there (Switching off your MILES is cheating)
Tripwire, you may have been too harsh on the SAF in your post, but you're spot on in saying that this competitive streak has become a bad thing and is IMO already harming rather than helping the SAF in its primary role, the defence of singapore
I don't think the punishment is too harsh, had 1 CDO BN remained in the competition and won it in spite of this issue, the message we're sending out is that its ok to do such things and still be possible to get ahead. By barring them, it might actually serve as a wake up call, not just to them, but too all others who use such underhanded means to get to an end.
And no, I don't have a beef with 1 CDO BN or any of its members, my beef is with the culture and system that IMO is pervasive here, not just restricted to the military -
the remfs know this for a factOriginally posted by the Bear:no one asked for perfection..
however, integrity and honesty is expected...
and worse, cheating in training is only going to harm our soldiers...
the more real the training, the less people will die when it is needed.. haven't the REMFs figured this basic fact?
sheesh!
however, its usually the commanders on the ground tat make mistakes. remfs do no exist in our army until as high up as divisional HQs. either way, how rear can the mfs be when the war start? -
in another country?
won't put it past them..Originally posted by whiteillum:the remfs know this for a fact
however, its usually the commanders on the ground tat make mistakes. remfs do no exist in our army until as high up as divisional HQs. either way, how rear can the mfs be when the war start? -
[quote]and sometimes... i wonder if the situation could be a result of the scholar policies... where officers without scholistic papers are forced into such drastic actions to prevent themselves from being condemmed... i dont know... but it could be...
I believe it is a strong contributing factor....this scholar policy is something gone dreadfully wrong. There are so many scholars nowadays....A decade ago, a perfumed prince usually get the choice operational postings. Nowadays, its not uncommon to find them in schools too. Not too long ago, i know of an SAF Overseas scholar (rank captain) in the role of a PC of a OCS platoon. And this is after his previous appt as a PC in a rifle unit. Perhaps this is a good thing it's a more realistic pace rather than making him OC next (which was true for my president scholar PC during my NSF who quickly became OC after that). But think about it, his appt is something that'd normally go to a non-scholar.
Given this highly flawed emphasis on paper qualifications or good paperwork (paperplay again) as a poor substitute for real military excellence its not surprising that people sometimes do dumb unethical things, like fudging the books, out of insecurity .
Its scary....but that begs the question again...is the SAF culture embodied in this best unit thingy helping to turn out warriors or perm secs or white-collared criminals? -
Something to think about...are we getting it right as far as education is concerned? Or have we lost focus?
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=49090 -
as much as i personally haf my own misgivings about the system of choosing and nurturing scholars in the saf, perhaps we should all try to look at it in another perspective. the saf has to renew itself constantly and ensure it stays young and the young are given the chance to go up so that they can constantly attract good people to join them. singapore has had no operational experience since the confrontasi many years ago, so there is realli no avenue for the earmarked to prove themselves other than through other means, such as war gaming and tactics and so on. of course we all know watever happens in real ops is vastly diff from watever happens on paper, but having someone who can plan and think b4 planning and come out wif a good plan is better than having someone who cannot do so as well right, given that both are similarly inexperienced in ops? saf chooses its scholars not solely based on academic results. they look at their ns performance, eca and other aptitude tests. we canot deny that academic results played a huge part. mabbe they r not quite right to do that. but actualli do they haf many other choices? i used to disagree wif how young man from the same year same batch and same school tend to go thru much of ns together cos i felt they wil be so insulated from the rest of society that they may become aloof and insensitive. but i realise there r limitations to our kind of people's army. i dun think the method of choosing and grooming earmarked top talent in the saf is perfect. i think there r certain influences within very high up that haf caused its methodology to be wat it is now, and this influence caused it to become rather skewed. but so far, the system has worked well. o cos there has to be a better system of doing things somewhere. i believe the saf is smart enuff to be on a constant lookout for such better means of looking for their future leadership.Originally posted by IAF:[quote]and sometimes... i wonder if the situation could be a result of the scholar policies... where officers without scholistic papers are forced into such drastic actions to prevent themselves from being condemmed... i dont know... but it could be...
I believe it is a strong contributing factor....this scholar policy is something gone dreadfully wrong. There are so many scholars nowadays....A decade ago, a perfumed prince usually get the choice operational postings. Nowadays, its not uncommon to find them in schools too. Not too long ago, i know of an SAF Overseas scholar (rank captain) in the role of a PC of a OCS platoon. And this is after his previous appt as a PC in a rifle unit. Perhaps this is a good thing it's a more realistic pace rather than making him OC next (which was true for my president scholar PC during my NSF who quickly became OC after that). But think about it, his appt is something that'd normally go to a non-scholar.
Given this highly flawed emphasis on paper qualifications or good paperwork (paperplay again) as a poor substitute for real military excellence its not surprising that people sometimes do dumb unethical things, like fudging the books, out of insecurity .
Its scary....but that begs the question again...is the SAF culture embodied in this best unit thingy helping to turn out warriors or perm secs or white-collared criminals? -
Is it really that good? Look at the typical scholar's career. Its already mapped out the minute he puts pen to paper. He'll supposed to fast-tracked up the ladder, usually from a middle level position, supposedly for him to gain experience. His term there is usually more or less fixed, until the next step up and so on until he arrives where it's been planned for him.
That sounds fine and good in theory, but then the road to hell is paved with good intentions
He is assured of that promotion even if his performance is average or mediocre, barring major f***ups. So what happens is most of them taken the safest, and most risk averse path. Hey, if I don't do anything risky, nothing will go wrong right? No controversial (or even remotely controversial) decisions are made, nothing of substance gets done, major decisions get buried under red tape until scholar boy moves up the ladder and hands over the decision making reponsibility to the next guy, who more often than not, is another scholar and the process repeats itself over and over again.
An overblown scenario? Not from what I have seen first hand myself. While I was in NS years ago, we got wind of a new system "to be implemented in the next year". When I left for my studies 1 1/2 years later, it had yet to be implemented, and when I came back 4 years later to serve my balance, the "new system" had been in place all of 2 weeks(No kidding). The system was riddled with kinks (not SAF's fault, every new system is like that) but what was particularly galling was the "scholars" in position to make decisions to iron out the kinks refused point blank, preferring to let the onus fall on another scholar who was obviouslly not too keen on making THAT decision and passed it around like a hot potato. With the result that the guys down the pecking order suffered.
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