Singapore navy officers charged in fatal ship collision
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ASSOCIATED PRESS
SINGAPORE, June 20 — Two Singapore officers were charged Friday with causing a collision between a navy ship and a Dutch cargo ship that killed four sailors, a defense ministry spokesman said.
Lt. Ng Keng Yong, 27, and Lt. Chua Chue Teng, 23, were released on $5,870 bail, the defense ministry spokesman said. The official, who declined to be identified, said he could not say what the exact charges against the men were. The two are scheduled to appear in a court July 8.
Ng was watch officer when the RSS Courageous, a 500-ton submarine hunter, collided with the ANL Indonesia off Malaysia's southern coast on Jan. 1, killing four servicewomen. Eight other officers were injured.
Former Chief of Navy, Rear Adm. Lui Tuck Yew, called it the worst naval accident in Singapore's history.
In a report in April, Singapore's Maritime and Ports Authority accused Ng of ''errors of judgment,'' including failing to tell Chua, who was under his command, how to steer the navy vessel out of the cargo ship's path.
© 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. -
Originally posted by IAF:© 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
sigh.. feel veri sad that they haf to be charged..
potentially jailed somemore... sigh... -
When you are in Uniform and On Duty, whether you are in Command or not,
it is no more "Play - Play" time, but "Pray - Pray" that nothing happens during your tour of duty.
This is an expensive lesson to be learnt, at the cost of four lost lives, eight injured, and two more to be tried.
A heavy price for a young navy with such a short history. -
Who will ever dare to become a naval officer in the future ?
...
i wunder if the move's rite to sue the naval officers ...
Wat kinda signal are we showing to pple who are thinking of become career naval officers ?
Pooh ! -
I know Keng Yong personally actually... but we have lost contact already... he is such a jovial and friendly guy... I feel really sad that such and unfortunate event happened... it is definitely a turning point in his life I believe... for better or worse depends on his actions and determinations right now. it is true: society is no playground, that's why friends are important. I hope those that are able to be around him right now can be there to support and encourage him.
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Originally posted by IAF:ASSOCIATED PRESS
SINGAPORE, June 20 — Two Singapore officers were charged Friday with causing a collision between a navy ship and a Dutch cargo ship that killed four sailors, a defense ministry spokesman said.
Lt. Ng Keng Yong, 27, and Lt. Chua Chue Teng, 23, were released on $5,870 bail, the defense ministry spokesman said. The official, who declined to be identified, said he could not say what the exact charges against the men were. The two are scheduled to appear in a court July 8.
Ng was watch officer when the RSS Courageous, a 500-ton submarine hunter, collided with the ANL Indonesia off Malaysia's southern coast on Jan. 1, killing four servicewomen. Eight other officers were injured.
Former Chief of Navy, Rear Adm. Lui Tuck Yew, called it the worst naval accident in Singapore's history.
In a report in April, Singapore's Maritime and Ports Authority accused Ng of ''errors of judgment,'' including failing to tell Chua, who was under his command, how to steer the navy vessel out of the cargo ship's path.
© 2003 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
putting oneself in the shoes of the deceased loved ones..a dozen deaths is much too good for the slayer..irreversible trauma has been inflicted..everybody has a right to feel secure in their profession..whenever got potential to cause death..there's a price to pay for negligence. -
ppl must realise it is not play play in SAF, ppl need to use their brain and think before they act..... lifes can be lost
be professional abt it.... dun wayang so much -
ppl must realise it is not play play in SAF, ppl need to use their brain and think before they act..... lifes can be lost
be professional abt it.... dun wayang so much -
It would be worse if there wasn't one.Originally posted by wuming78:
sigh.. feel veri sad that they haf to be charged.. potentially jailed somemore... sigh... -
tell that to the REMFs that run the commandoes...Originally posted by kayak5:ppl must realise it is not play play in SAF, ppl need to use their brain and think before they act..... lifes can be lost
be professional abt it.... dun wayang so much -
From the Straits Times report on Saturday, June 21, 2003, it was reported learn that the two Navy Officers being charged were Lt Ng Keng Yong, 27 and Lt Chua Chue Teng,23.
I was surprised to learn that Lt Chua is a lady officer being trained on a Combat Ship. -
actually, i think charging them is a right move... just put yourself into their superior officer's boots, into the shoes of the parents of the deceased... u wouldn't want the whole navy to be shunned becoz they weren't punished for such a mishap right? afterall, statistics shows that they were in the wrong... when you're wrong, you ought to receive punishment... as for the parents, would u like to see the person responsible for your child's death walk free? be it an accident or an intention, the loss of lives is a severe issue... by giving them only 2 yrs jail and a fine at the maximum, it's already a very lenient punishment, so lighten up, people...Originally posted by szehao:Who will ever dare to become a naval officer in the future ?
...
i wunder if the move's rite to sue the naval officers ...
Wat kinda signal are we showing to pple who are thinking of become career naval officers ?
Pooh ! -
When the US Submarine sunk a Japanese Survey Vessel, off the Hawaiin Coast, the Captain of the US Submarine was court martialled in a Navy Court.
Why are the two RSN Lieutenants charged in a Civilian Court ?
Is the Military Court incompetent to handle such a serious offense ?
We may have a young SAF, and without any history in legal military cases. This should not be a hindrance to start the legal process within the Military. -
Hello ...
I understand why u are making this statement ... probably simply from the media reports of this incident ...
aniwae its clear and plain that the media is trying to victimize the 2 officers on the command of the ship.
I have absolute trust/belief in the 2 officers tat the decision they made at that moment was 4 the best of everyone !
Isn't it time tat the big brass of the Navy take a look at their training manual... and find out wat's wrong ...
Its an accident waiting to happen ...
Only people who have undergone the same training would understand what i mean ... I'm not saying that the 2 officers are not responsible for the incident ... but probably if these 2 officers are to be charged ...
SHOULDN'T the BIG BRASS Of our REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE NAVY shoulder some of the RESPONSIBILITY as WELL ???
From what i read from the reports, it seems that the responsibility of the accident is fully shouldered by the 2 junior officers ... I would say its an absolute DISGRACE if the senior officers are not reprimanded or even punished for this accident.Originally posted by alphanumeric:actually, i think charging them is a right move... just put yourself into their superior officer's boots, into the shoes of the parents of the deceased... u wouldn't want the whole navy to be shunned becoz they weren't punished for such a mishap right? afterall, statistics shows that they were in the wrong... when you're wrong, you ought to receive punishment... as for the parents, would u like to see the person responsible for your child's death walk free? be it an accident or an intention, the loss of lives is a severe issue... by giving them only 2 yrs jail and a fine at the maximum, it's already a very lenient punishment, so lighten up, people... -
I am cocksure there is more than meets the eye. A lot of things don't really make sense.
In anycase, I feel sorry that the 2 officers had to take the hit for the tragic "accident." -
well... the real world is often shrouded in secrecy... but since things have developed to such a state, i would say we just have to accept it, like it or not... i guess that the blame does not fall squarely on the shoulders of those two young officers... the senior officers are also to blame perhaps... but the maritime authorithy report has already shown that the ship turned the wrong direction and placed itself directly in the path of the bigger ship... we just have to trust these reports, u see... coz these people are the professionals.. their job is to find any inconsistencies and report them... nothing in this world is absolute... people will always have their opinions, and this is mine... feel free to comment bout it, but i think that since this accident, the senior officers probably have received their lectures and stuff... in the american army, if such an accident happens, the senior official does not get charged usually, but he will definitely be taken off promotion for a long long time...
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The SAF operates on the basis of responsibility. Everything is someone's responsibility. If it screws up, there is automatically someone to blame. I am not in the Navy, but I am quite sure it applies there too.
As I understand it, when the ship is underway, the ship's navigation is the responsibility of the Officer of the Watch. If the ship's navigation is bad, it is that person's fault, regardless of how it happened. In this case, the Officer of the Watch was overseeing a trainee, who was the one that actually issued the incorrect orders. Nevertheless, it is not the trainee's fault, but the OOW's (sp?) since it is his responsibility and he must do everything in his power to ENSURE (favorite SAF term) that it is done correctly. He did not.
Now, the Officer of the Watch was surely trained by senior officers, received his orders from senior officers, etc. His decisions were in turn carried out by junior officers and affected by their performance. So everyone on the ship "caused" the incident. Is it everybody's fault now, since everybody contributed to it? No. It is the Officer of the Watch's responsibility. There is no "victim culture" in the SAF. You cannot stand up and claim you screwed up because this person did that and that person did this. Your responsibility, your failure to ensure, your backside gets torn.
The trainee is only responsible for her training. At the worst, she can be found to have been insufficiently diligent in her midshipman studies and failed out of the course. She did not work hard enough to learn the right way to navigate. Her lack of diligence is her fault and she should be appropriately punished for that. But the loss of the ship is not her fault, and the punishment should fall on her overseer.
Of course, this is all unfortunately only theory. Things do not always follow the official model. We will see in this case. They should be doing things by the book since the case is so high-profile, but I would not be surprised if they were skipping some pages for one reason or another. -
Originally posted by szehao:
i just wanna understand something.
Hello ...
I understand why u are making this statement ... probably simply from the media reports of this incident ...
aniwae its clear and plain that the media is trying to victimize the 2 officers on the command of the ship.
I have absolute trust/belief in the 2 officers tat the decision they made at that moment was 4 the best of everyone !
Isn't it time tat the big brass of the Navy take a look at their training manual... and find out wat's wrong ...
Its an accident waiting to happen ...
Only people who have undergone the same training would understand what i mean ... I'm not saying that the 2 officers are not responsible for the incident ... but probably if these 2 officers are to be charged ...
SHOULDN'T the BIG BRASS Of our REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE NAVY shoulder some of the RESPONSIBILITY as WELL ???
From what i read from the reports, it seems that the responsibility of the accident is fully shouldered by the 2 junior officers ... I would say its an absolute [b]DISGRACE if the senior officers are not reprimanded or even punished for this accident.
[/b]
are the so called big brass located on the ship at the time of the incident?
if they are, i support you. if not then i say it's wholly the fault of the junior officiers. -
y the hell is the Courageous Incident is on CrimeWatch??
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YOU ARE TOTALLY RIGHT!!! nismos132!!!!Originally posted by nismoS132:i just wanna understand something.
are the so called big brass located on the ship at the time of the incident?
if they are, i support you. if not then i say it's wholly the fault of the junior officiers. -
Originally posted by szehao:
Hello ...
I understand why u are making this statement ... probably simply from the media reports of this incident ...
aniwae its clear and plain that the media is trying to victimize the 2 officers on the command of the ship.
I have absolute trust/belief in the 2 officers tat the decision they made at that moment was 4 the best of everyone !
.... sorry... from their map it shown... the OOW move was never advisable in ROR... and how you know that at that moment....... BOTH of the officer was at the wheel house? u sure about that? what about the OOW was at below deck and the under study officer (AO) was at ALONE on watch?
Isn't it time tat the big brass of the Navy take a look at their training manual... and find out wat's wrong ...
Its an accident waiting to happen ...
Only people who have undergone the same training would understand what i mean ... I'm not saying that the 2 officers are not responsible for the incident ... but probably if these 2 officers are to be charged ...
it seen to me that you are from the Navy as well
if you are from the Navy, i think u should know also... some of the traning or Ex when we involve... more or less it have RISK down there.... when such thing like that happen.... ofcoz they will review the training guide again....
SHOULDN'T the BIG BRASS Of our REPUBLIC OF SINGAPORE NAVY shoulder some of the RESPONSIBILITY as WELL ???
!!! as for this.... i think the Navy have SHOULDER more then what we can think of! that two officer not only cause of the lost of 4 service man.... but some damn important stuff also... do you know that this issued was silently being COVER AND BEAR by the so call BIG BRASS???
From what i read from the reports, it seems that the responsibility of the accident is fully shouldered by the 2 junior officers ... I would say its an absolute DISGRACE if the senior officers are not reprimanded or even punished for this accident.
all officer have to go through proper training before we will greet then SIR! and if after those training... and they fault to perform what others expected he/her to perform... then... what else can the org do? punished lor.... simple...
sigh sigh sigh,.... when a officer trying to charge his man.... why he never say all this to himself or his CO?? -
Well ...
Gong says Gongs got reason ...
Po says Po got reason ...
I just think that the navy is not being transparent enuff with this situation ...
To answer your question ... no ... i dunno whether the AO is the only one on watch at that time
and neither do you have the rite to judge the decision of the OOW at that time.(nonethless its against the ROR)
Sometimes, we infringe the ROR because we need to avoid collision, u think its fun to infringe the ROR ? It only impedes the safety of our ships.
And if i was the AO ... i sure wun take the responsibility of being the only one on watch! And if the OOW was dumb enuff to not realise that they are in such a bz shipping lane to go "slacking off", then i think he deserve to be dismmiss!
Watever the case is, our society have entrusted the responsibility of keeping our SLOC safe to the government and this responsibility is in turn entrusted to the Navy and her "big Brass" ... if someone up there doesn't like to take up his responsibility ... i wonder how to account to society ? -
it's like saying you're a parent at home, and 3 of your kids outside gets into a car wreck. and you're the one getting charged with reckless driving, not them.
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Well not exactly with reckless driving, but in this case, but parents should be held liable at least for negligence if they did not educate their teenage kids properly on safe driving.Originally posted by nismoS132:it's like saying you're a parent at home, and 3 of your kids outside gets into a car wreck. and you're the one getting charged with reckless driving, not them.
Theres now an increasing movement in the West for parents to be punished should their kids commit crimes, skip school etc.
Now back to this case, IMO the 2 officers on duty should be charged, no doubt about it. I think there is no doubt they violated international maritime laws, and I don't believe they can claim ignorance about the laws of the sea.
But then, maybe the RSN has to review its training procedures of its officers and helmsmen and be tougher in enforcing compliance with these laws among its junior officers, especially with regards to safe seamanship in the narrow and congested waters around Singapore. If this has been found grossly wanting among its senior officers, I've no doubt that they should be disciplined as well, though charging the might be a bit over the top.
I've had several people (who used to go sea fishing in the waters around Pedra Branca) tell me that the worst offenders of these written and unwritten maritime laws in the area are the RSN and PCG boats. So I guess the Courageous accident and its aftermath wasn't that big a surprise to me after the stories I've heard. -
if that were the case, then educators would also be liable to be sued if their students failed any exams cause it is their responsiblility that they do not fail.Originally posted by Viper52:Well not exactly with reckless driving, but in this case, but parents should be held liable at least for negligence if they did not educate their teenage kids properly on safe driving.
Theres now an increasing movement in the West for parents to be punished should their kids commit crimes, skip school etc.
westerners are really getting more and more bored.
otherwise agree with the rest of your post.