Most important battle of WWII???
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Comments???
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i would have to say Pearl Harbour...
not much of a battle but it shook the US out of their "hands off" approach to the war... and put the whole of the industrial might of the US into the war effort.. -
i wouldnt say a specific one
but the air battles fought between the axis and the allied powers were pretty impt
if not for superior allied air power, Operation Overlord (better known as D-DAy) would not be possible -
I guess almost every battle was important...
what we should be looking at are, battles that weren't necessary...
ok i know war is not necessary but u get my drift. -
I feel that the pivot of WWII hinged upon the battle for the control of Sea Lines Of Communications.If the Old World was cut from the New World,would there be the strategic bombing campaign,the Med campaign,Overlord etc etc in the first place ???
You people should have expected this answer from me. -
For the european theatre..one of the most impt has got to be the massive assault on the beaches of normandy - Though there were critical battles later on such as the famed battle of the bulge..the beach landings spelled the beginning of the end for the 3rd Reich. Once the US military juggernaut established a toehold on the continent, they were mostly unstoppable.
An important factor that helped was the introduction of the crazy old horse calvaryman - Gen George Patton who put the wehrmacht on mostly the defensive eversince. Man..i love the movie "Patton"
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Iny my opinion, i dun think change from blitzkrieg to a almost static defense was in largely due to the decline in the availability of fuel for tank training and the lack of fuel for mobilising the panzer divisions as and when they want itOriginally posted by IAF:For the european theatre..one of the most impt has got to be the massive assault on the beaches of normandy - Though there were critical battles later on such as the famed battle of the bulge..the beach landings spelled the beginning of the end for the 3rd Reich. Once the US military juggernaut established a toehold on the continent, they were mostly unstoppable.
An important factor that helped was the introduction of the crazy old horse calvaryman - Gen George Patton who put the wehrmacht on mostly the defensive eversince. Man..i love the movie "Patton"
this is again largely due to the AAF bombing of the Romanian oil fields like Ploesti. -
Battle of Ang Mo Kio street 21... Where some resistance fighters faced off against some drunk japanese soldiers... one person sprained his ankle running away...
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i would say the battle for stalingrad and the greatest armour battle-battle of kursk. for jap and american war, i would say that it is the battle of midway where those darn japs lose thier major sea power
the landing of normandy and the battle of addrennes also play a huge part in the european threatre of war.
if u would have read more, the germans would lose in stalingrad. all becos of hitler stupidity and folly that lead to the nazi downfall. -
opps typo. the german wouldn't lose in stalingrad if not for hitler stupidity
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Originally posted by Doenitz:Comments???
hiroshima & nagasaki..
if only it were Tokyo & Osaka instead..
still no apology in sight. -
2 things about Normandy.....for 1 Panzer group B (i think) was not release for use in it's defence for the 1st critical 24hours....infact it was not released until 48 hours after the beach head was created!!Originally posted by IAF:For the european theatre..one of the most impt has got to be the massive assault on the beaches of normandy - Though there were critical battles later on such as the famed battle of the bulge..the beach landings spelled the beginning of the end for the 3rd Reich. Once the US military juggernaut established a toehold on the continent, they were mostly unstoppable.
An important factor that helped was the introduction of the crazy old horse calvaryman - Gen George Patton who put the wehrmacht on mostly the defensive eversince. Man..i love the movie "Patton"
How bad is that??However when it was used it held the allies up for some 3months before they were grinded to almost 60% effectivness and the allied conducted a break out.If i recall the 1st SS LAH was down to a mere 4,000 men and 40 working tanks!!!ALso air cover was non existent!!!!(the panzers who held them were the 1st SS LAH,2nd SS Das reich,12th SS HJ,21st Panzer the rest were wehrmacht divisions and the famous 6th FJ)
2nd thing was Allied naval domination!!!
During the 1st 24-36 hours when the 21st panzer(2 recon elements) with the 6th FJ and 1 other formation whose nam escapes me tried a counted attack they were driven back by some infantry and artilary provided by the big ships.....the allied support was so good and accurate that the counter attacking force suffered 20%(i think) casualties enroute!!Thus before even breaking the holding infantry line they pulled back.Overall i think the most important battle was the Allied airforces sweeping all before them together with their massive naval might beating everything that won the freaking war......otherwise contray to what some might say even the mighty russian bear would have been defeated -
Indeed, Battle of Britain for one, even though the krauts still have the Royal Navy to worry about. If the final stronghold in europe fell, I wouldn't dare imagine. If it wasn't for their faceoff with Stalin, Hitler's Operation Sealion would most probably garner more investment than just a bluff.Originally posted by whiteillum:i wouldnt say a specific one
but the air battles fought between the axis and the allied powers were pretty impt
if not for superior allied air power, Operation Overlord (better known as D-DAy) would not be possible
I'd give a vote to Operation Barbarossa. -
If we are talking about pivotal battles in WW2, then my humble opinion will be
a) Stalingrad for the point where the German armies were turned back
b) Midway where Japan forces were turned back
c) El Alamein where Rommel was forced to turn back
d) Poland in September 1939 where Hitler managed to prove that blitzkrieg works.
e) Okinawa where the Japanese tenacity for fighting to the last man convinced the USA high command to drop the BOMB, in order to prevent the wholesale massacres if they ever invade the mainland. -
Amazing...no one mentions the Battle of the Atlantic...All land power afficonados uh???
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The Germans shouldn't have gone to Stalingrad in my opinion. Of little practical use. More likely it was Hitler's hatred for Communism and Stalingrad's symbolic status that sent Germans to Stalingrad. The only importance of Stalingrad in more opinion is that it tied up hell of alot of German resources that could be better used against the Allies.Originally posted by kenhor:If we are talking about pivotal battles in WW2, then my humble opinion will be
a) Stalingrad for the point where the German armies were turned back
b) Midway where Japan forces were turned back
c) El Alamein where Rommel was forced to turn back
d) Poland in September 1939 where Hitler managed to prove that blitzkrieg works.
e) Okinawa where the Japanese tenacity for fighting to the last man convinced the USA high command to drop the BOMB, in order to prevent the wholesale massacres if they ever invade the mainland.
And erm, Operation Market Garden anyone? largest airborne operation in history... -
well the battle of the atlantic in ww2 wasnt that important.....the germans sunk way way to littleOriginally posted by Doenitz:Amazing...no one mentions the Battle of the Atlantic... -
Churchill himself said that the Battle of the Atlantic was the pivot of the entire war.If the Allies lost it,would there be a second front in the first place???Originally posted by |-|05|:well the battle of the atlantic in ww2 wasnt that important.....the germans sunk way way to little“For Germany, the most dangerous naval enemy at the present time is England.”“Our Fleet must be constructed so that it can unfold its greatest military potential between Heligoland and the Thames.”
“The military situation against England demands battleships in as great a number as possible.”
Alfred von Tirpitz -
Op market garden was a utter waste.....8,000 allied loses not worth it since it failed.And stalingrad i suppose was a waste....another useless battle....should have gone for leingrad and once again moscow!Originally posted by laser51088:The Germans shouldn't have gone to Stalingrad in my opinion. Of little practical use. More likely it was Hitler's hatred for Communism and Stalingrad's symbolic status that sent Germans to Stalingrad. The only importance of Stalingrad in more opinion is that it tied up hell of alot of German resources that could be better used against the Allies.
And erm, Operation Market Garden anyone? largest airborne operation in history... -
just to boost morale lah........shipping loses werent that great since they started conveying very very early......it wasnt like ww1 where britian was nearly stranggled!Originally posted by Doenitz:Churchill himself said that the Battle of the Atlantic was the pivot of the entire war.If the Allies lost it,would there be a second front in the first place???
EDit:Alfred von Tirpitz was ww1 lah.......ww2 it was that great a threat.... -
Pity the bold Market Garden failed, but even if it did succeed, it would by their prediction bring VE-Day earlier, Christmas of 44. It doesn't seem to be a decisive or tide-changing battle, perhaps only to the race of hoisting the flag over berlin.Originally posted by laser51088:The Germans shouldn't have gone to Stalingrad in my opinion. Of little practical use. More likely it was Hitler's hatred for Communism and Stalingrad's symbolic status that sent Germans to Stalingrad. The only importance of Stalingrad in more opinion is that it tied up hell of alot of German resources that could be better used against the Allies.
And erm, Operation Market Garden anyone? largest airborne operation in history... -
Kenhor,Originally posted by kenhor:If we are talking about pivotal battles in WW2, then my humble opinion will be
a) Stalingrad for the point where the German armies were turned back
b) Midway where Japan forces were turned back
c) El Alamein where Rommel was forced to turn back
d) Poland in September 1939 where Hitler managed to prove that blitzkrieg works.
e) Okinawa where the Japanese tenacity for fighting to the last man convinced the USA high command to drop the BOMB, in order to prevent the wholesale massacres if they ever invade the mainland.
agree wholeheartedly with a), b) c) and e). However Poland didn't really test the mettle of the Blitzkreig theory to the full. The Polish were too weak and ill-prepared for the job. I would say that the pivotal moment for Blitzkreig was the invasion of France and the Low Countries in 1940, where the Germans took on the French and BEF who knew they were coming (albeit using inferior tactics).
Another pivotal point was the bitter struggle for the SW Pacific, including the battles for Guadacanal, the Solomons, PNG etc. Many historians regard Midway as the turning point of the Pacific War, but the fact was that Midway balanced the war, but the SW Pacific battles was the one which turned the tide in that it wore the Japanese war machine down and allowed American industrial supremacy to come through.
Laser51088, Market-Garden was a grand f***-up of historic proportions. It basically showed
1) why you shouldn't underestimate the enemy
2) Get intel, AND believe it
3) Never advance on a narrow front
4) Ignoring (3) invariably makes your flanks and logistical tail hard to defend
5) No plan survives first contact with the enemy
Have you read A Bridge too Far by Cornelius Ryan and Citizen Soldiers by Stephen Ambrose? Both are must reads if you want info on Market Garden, although the first is more detailed since it was focused only on that op, although Citizen Soldiers covered the Western Allies advance up NW Europe so had less focus on Market-Garden, it has access to newer info (since it was about 20 years later than Ryan's work). -
The Race to Berlin was basically over after the Yalta conference when the Allies agreed that the Red Army was to have Berlin. I still don't think the Germans would have collapsed had Market Garden succeeded. Remember even if it succeeded the Allies still had to counter the 25 divisions used at the Ardennes Offensive which would undoubtedly have been used to counter any Market Garden success.Originally posted by M:Pity the bold Market Garden failed, but even if it did succeed, it would by their prediction bring VE-Day earlier, Christmas of 44. It doesn't seem to be a decisive or tide-changing battle, perhaps only to the race of hoisting the flag over berlin. -
How about something closer to home - the invasion of malaya and the fall of singapore aka "the impregnable fortress" Something that still influence defence planners today
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D-day, Omaha Beach.
Perfect demonstration on how NOT to conduct an amphibious invasion. Hur hur.