time to change the national anthem???
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Its because the powers-that-be have neglected to impress upon us at an early age, what the words to the anthem mean and what they stand for.Originally posted by tripwire:or isit that the anthem has failed?
But then, should it be surprising that we sing the anthem and recite the pledge without knowing what it means, when the same powers-that-be flout the very tenets that we swear to uphold when reciting the pledge
"Regardless of race, language or religion"
"To build a democratic society"
"Based on justice and equality" -
how many countries are there in this world... where a huge proportion of citizen needs to "FIND OUT" what their national anthem lyrics means??Originally posted by wuming78:i guess one reason is how he said hearing the national anthem actualli made him feel something inside.
and another is how he bothered to go and find out.
its not that alot of people dun understand bahasa melayu. the translations are everywhere. its whether one is bothered or interested enuff to find out wat his/her OWN national anthem means, instead of going thru the motion of singing it for years while in school.
if not alot of people dun understand bahasa melayu... WHY even bother to have translations everywhere?? arent you contradicting yourself??
lastly... would you sing ANY song over and over again for decades with spirit WHEN you dont even know what the freak you mumbling about??
the problem here is the ability to attach EMOTION to the MEANINGS of the words AS YOU SING the national anthem!!!
just go to any school in the morning and you will hear the national anthem being sung with a MONOTONOUS.... TONE.. IF they even BOTHER to sing in the first place... -
one of these days, LKY in one of his senile moods is gonna declare the national athem to be "MY WAY"
And now, the end is near;
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, I'll say it clear,
I'll state my case, of which I'm certain.
I've lived a life that's full.
I've traveled each and ev'ry highway;
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Regrets, I've had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.
I planned each charted course;
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.
I've loved, I've laughed and cried.
I've had my fill; my share of 'boozing'.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.
To think I did all that;
And may I say - not in a shy way,
"No, oh no not me,
I did it my way".
For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way! -
The origin of the US National Anthem:
During the War of 1812, on September 13, 1814, Francis Scott Key visited the British fleet in Chesapeake Bay to secure the release of Dr. William Beanes, who had been captured after the burning of Washington DC.
The release was secured, but Key was detained on ship overnight during the shelling of Fort McHenry, one of the forts defending Baltimore.
In the morning, he was so delighted to see the American flag still flying over the fort that he began a poem to commemorate the occasion.
Entitled "The Star Spangled Banner", the poem soon attained wide popularity as sung to the tune "To Anacreon in Heaven".
The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750.
"The Star Spangled Banner" was officially made the National Anthem by Congress in 1931, although already adopted as such by the Army and Navy.
http://www.star-spangled-site.com/usa_ant.htm
The national anthem of a Country reflects the cultural, social and political experiences shared by the peoples in the Country.
Malay was declared one of the four official languages - as stated in our Constitution.
Although this lip service was made, not much else was done to promote the study of Malay language since the 1970's - although there was Government incentive for Civil Servants to master written and spoken Malay during the late 1960's.
Unfortunately, the unspoken and suppressed "disdain" towards the Malay way continues with the present Political Leadership in all its policies - from National Service to Education, to Political Appointments.
This has resulted in the feelings of some - like "Tripwire" - to question the relevance of a National Anthem written in a language that is little understood by most Singaporeans, and therefore has little meaning or relevance - (especially when compared with a national anthem such as proudly shared and supported by diverse ethnic groups that form the US citizenry).
Be as it may, "Majullah Singapura" is reflective of Singapore, with our unique declaration of equality of all its peoples, regardless of race, language or religion, as enshrined in the Singapore Constitution.
The lyrics of "Majullah Singapura" expresse our unique transition to independence, in a period when Singapore was kicked out of Malaysia because of the "politics of race" that was practised during the short period when Singapore was part of Malaysia.
This unique call to be together and move forward was penned by a Malay musician, and we should respect this person's effort by continuing to sing it as it was originally written - in a language that we recognised as equal amongst the other languages that make us uniquely Singaporean. -
well. i never did any studies on how many people out there found out about their own national anthems. i jus thought as citizens should be interested enuff to go and find out ourselves if we dun noe. of course i am equally guilty in the past of being apathetic.Originally posted by tripwire:how many countries are there in this world... where a huge proportion of citizen needs to "FIND OUT" what their national anthem lyrics means??
if not alot of people dun understand bahasa melayu... WHY even bother to have translations everywhere?? arent you contradicting yourself??
lastly... would you sing ANY song over and over again for decades with spirit WHEN you dont even know what the freak you mumbling about??
the problem here is the ability to attach EMOTION to the MEANINGS of the words AS YOU SING the national anthem!!!
just go to any school in the morning and you will hear the national anthem being sung with a MONOTONOUS.... TONE.. IF they even BOTHER to sing in the first place...
people dun understand it cos they dun go and find out. one can indeed understand the language with which the anthem was written in but that does not mean one truely understands the gist and spirit of the anthem.
and its sad that people do not understand it even though there are translations that can be found easily.
anyway i hope that by wat u said, u r implying that most people do in fact understand the national anthem and that's why they are still singing it after decades. of course, understanding the anthem and its meaning and spirit does not mean one is patriotic, and i guess tts wat u mean.
but invoking patriotism is not the sole responsibility of the anthem. there are other means too, such as the flag, the history and so on.
that said, i guess wat u meant was that our national anthem is not accessible enough for the general public. and u feel that hence it is failing as one of the tools used to rally people.
yes, perhaps they can make the anthem and all its translations even more around us - buses, advertisements boards,etc, especially around national day. this i agree with u.
but i still think that as much as the authorities can facilitate this, the onus is very much on the people as well to take the initiative.
perhaps the people could even gather and do this translation project and others, instead of waiting for the authorities to start! wouldnt that be wonderful? -
as noted in previous post... the question is... DID the current national anthem achieved ITS PRE-ASSIGNED function...
i am not interested in the politics behind the song, nor do i intend to dwell on such matters as i deemed the question here to transcend race, language AND POLITICS... as it is a matter of we as the citizen of singapore.
JUST very simply put... HAS our national anthem... FAILED in its PRE-ASSIGNED FUNCTION as a NATIONAL ANTHEM.... -
yeah, 'the root, the fundamental and soul of the nation' happens to be in malay. How to feel patriotic when it is played if the words can't be understood it in the first place? If I understand you, we have to learn to understand the words in malay because the national anthem is in malay. . . now THAT is shallow thinking... the anthem is still something that was created by one man and modified by a few for singapore. if it is not able to have the impact on the populace that it was intended to have, then why is it our national anthem?Originally posted by kanzer:The national anthem is the root, the fundamental and soul of the nation. Anyone out there that suggest that we can the anthem or lyrics into English obviously have a lack of appreciation for the national anthem. We need to ask ourselves whether do we need to change just because most of us cannot understand or speak Malay. If the answer is yes, that is pretty shallow. The national anthem and flag is a symbol of the country. This is what we are. We don't change just because we want to move with times or appeal to future generations or because we don't understand it. The onus is on the population to learn and appreciate it and not the other way round.
I do feel something when the flag is raised or during the fly past of the flag on national day. i feel the same when i see the crest proudly displayed. But i sing the anthem cos i have to... no choice. . . -
the national anthem, the state flag and national flower are all points of rallying our people. these have been composed, created or chosen around the times when we were declared independent. due to the special circumstances surrounding our existence, they were chosen and created as what they are now. we really cannot divorce the context out of their creation. we must also not forget the national language and the reason it was chosen. so i think naturally the anthem would be composed in the same language.Originally posted by laser51088:yeah, 'the root, the fundamental and soul of the nation' happens to be in malay. How to feel patriotic when it is played if the words can't be understood it in the first place? If I understand you, we have to learn to understand the words in malay because the national anthem is in malay. . . now THAT is shallow thinking... the anthem is still something that was created by one man and modified by a few for singapore. if it is not able to have the impact on the populace that it was intended to have, then why is it our national anthem?
I do feel something when the flag is raised or during the fly past of the flag on national day. i feel the same when i see the crest proudly displayed. But i sing the anthem cos i have to... no choice. . .
so these 3 are embodied our history and serves to remind us of the nation we are born in and how this nation itself was born. this is no different from all other anthems and flags and flowers - they have a rich meaning behind them.
these circumstances have not changed, even now.
so do we want to change the anthem because it is not the mother tongue of the majority of the country?
there were talks of changing the national language. but do we really want to do that? will doing that and subsequently changing the anthem really make singaporeans more patriotic?
as citizens of singapore, shouldnt we be interested at some point of time in our lives to know what our national anthem means. and after finding out, and understanding its spirit and meaning, the anthem is still as effective.
the problem comes when people cannot be bothered to find out.
if they cannot be bothered to find out what the anthem means, would changing its language really make them more interested?
i cannot say i know the answers to the questions. but i guess we have to consider alot more factors when we decide to do something.
in my personal opinion, i have no problem with the national language, the anthem, and all commands being used in schools and the military being in malay. the icons are rallying points of a country - instruments so to speak. in that it means they have to convey more meaning in them. history will have to be one of them. i guess in that we cannot only expect their meaning to be there and obviously visible.
of course, if we look at things in isolation and think of the anthem as not being directly accessible to the majority of the population, perhaps you are right to say it is not working as well as it should be. -
that said, i will proceed to consult some of my friends who will be in better position to comment on this issue. will get back if i get something from them.
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we need to consult Encik Zubir Said whether he want to compose a new song for us??
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no lah.. of course not. tts not wat i meant. anyway their argument is more of changing the language than changing the anthem.Originally posted by NeonTetra:we need to consult Encik Zubir Said whether he want to compose a new song for us?? -
i agree that it is time we changed our national language to english, as well as change the military commands, and the anthem into english.
simply because the circumstances have changed. malay is no longer the business language of our region, we are not longer an expoused malay state nor do we have the pressure of several malay giants breathing down our necks, nor are we about to return to malaysian anytime soon. we are an independent, soverign entity. we are educated in english, we work with english, we are reknowned for having a good business environment because of our strong command of english.
english is the unofficial national language of the people. not malay.
you may consider it shallow, i consider it being realistic. -
now that itself reveals your shallow mentality. have you put in the effort to learn or have the national education that the state has innoculated on you failed. the meaning of the national anthem is taught if you ever go to a national school. in fact they teach you since primary school. so do not blame the swimming trunks is tight if you do not know how to swim. have you ever put in the effort to learn and understand? your statement obviously tell me that you have not.Originally posted by laser51088:yeah, 'the root, the fundamental and soul of the nation' happens to be in malay. How to feel patriotic when it is played if the words can't be understood it in the first place? If I understand you, we have to learn to understand the words in malay because the national anthem is in malay. . . now THAT is shallow thinking... the anthem is still something that was created by one man and modified by a few for singapore. if it is not able to have the impact on the populace that it was intended to have, then why is it our national anthem?
I do feel something when the flag is raised or during the fly past of the flag on national day. i feel the same when i see the crest proudly displayed. But i sing the anthem cos i have to... no choice. . .
it is time for you to broaden your thinking and not restrict to the view that if i do not understand things, it has to change just because i do not understand. now isn't this thought itself shallow? obviously you do not take pride in the anthem.... it is not to late to change this going-through-motion type of mentality. -
it is also not too late to change the mentality that this is a sacred cow.Originally posted by kanzer:it is time for you to broaden your thinking and not restrict to the view that if i do not understand things, it has to change just because i do not understand. now isn't this thought itself shallow? obviously you do not take pride in the anthem.... it is not to late to change this going-through-motion type of mentality.
you can stand in a crowd and scream all you want about everyone needing to understand the meanings despite it being in a language used by a minority. but if no one hears you, does it matter?
if there was a war and a soldier pointed a gun at you, would you argue that you're a civilian and he is bound by international laws not to hurt you?
i take pride in my country. as such i wish it would step out of the shadows of its past. -
I got a CRAZY ideda .. we can suggest a national anthem with all 4 languages in it. 1 paragraph each.
Its unique, its the first and it will make everyone happy. -
i have no idea how the other 3 races will be able to sing the tamil paragraph.
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Right now, I would feel that most of the China born sportspeople have trouble understanding the current national anthem anyway, so when we have a multilingual anthem, we can adapt.
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Atobe, figured I could count of you to get in with the facts about the Srat Spangled Banner before I did.
You did, however, forget one key fact:
"To Anacreon in Heaven" was originally a drinking song. -
Ah, found the lyrics- pardon the poor cut-and-paste job:
To Anacreon in Heaven, where he fat in full glee,
A few fons of Harmony fent a petition,
That He their Infpirer and Patron would be;
When this anfwer arrived from the Jolly Old Grecian
"Voice, Fiddle, and Flute,
"no longer be mute,
"I'll lend you my Name and infpire you to boot,
"And, befides, I'll infruct you like me to entwine
"The Myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's Vine.
II
The news through OLYMPUS immediately flew;
When OLD THUNDER pretended to give himfelf Airs
"If thefe mortals are fuffer'd their Scheme to perfue,
"The Devil a Goddefs will ftay above the Stairs.
"Hark, already they cry,
"In tranfports of Joy,
"Away to the Sons of ANACREON we'll fly,
"And there, with good Fellows, we'll learn to entwine
"The Myrtle of VENUS with BUCCUS'S Vine.
III
"The YELLOW-HAIRED GOD and his nine fufty Maids
"From Helicon's Banks will incontinent flee,
"IDALIA will boaft but of tenantlefs Shades,
"And the bi-forked Hill a mere Desart will be
"My Thunder, no fear on't,
"Shall foon do it's Errand,
" and, dam'me! I'll fwinge the Ringleaders, I warrant,
"I'll trim the young Dogs, for thus daring to twine
"The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCUS'S Vine.
IV
APOLLO rose up; and faid, "Pr'ythee ne'er quarrel,
"Good King of the Gods, with my Vot'ries below:
"Your Thunder is ufelefs." - then, fhewing his Laurel,
Cry'd, "Sic evitabile fulmen, you know!
"then over each Head
"My Laurels I'll fpread;
"So my Sons from your Crackers no Mifchief fhall dread,
"Whilst fnug in their Club-Room, they jovially twine
"The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCUS'S Vine.
V
Next MOMUS got up, with his rifible Phiz,
And fwore with APOLLO he'd cheerfully join
"The full Tide of Harmony ftill shall be his,
"But the Song, and the Catch, & the Laugh fhall be mine
"Then, JOVE, be not jealous
Of thefe honeft Fellows.
Cry'd JOVE, "We relent, fince the Truth you now tell us;
"And fwear, by OLD STYX, that they long fhall entwine
"The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCUS'S Vine.
VI
Ye fons of ANACREON, then, join Hand in Hand;
Preferve Unanimity, Friendfhip, and Love!
'Tis your's to fupport what's fo happily plann'd;
You've the Sanction of Gods, and the FIAT of Jove.
While thus we agree
Our Toaft let it be.
May our club flourish happy, united and free!
And long may the Sons of ANACREON intwine
The Myrtle of VENUS with BACCUS'S Vine.
Given that these were the words belted out by drunks as they stumbled out of pubs, it is probably best that the lyrics were rewritten before it was used as an anthem. The point is that the history of the Star Spangled Banner is not quite as grand as that portrayed by IAF, and chances are that it was questioned back then in the same manner as we are currently questioning Majulah Singapura. -
Deleted - double-post.
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Well, i stand corrected. Anyway it's interesting to know that the star spangled banner has such a humble originOriginally posted by Gedanken:The point is that the history of the Star Spangled Banner is not quite as grand as that portrayed by IAF, and chances are that it was questioned back then in the same manner as we are currently questioning Majulah Singapura.