Replacement for our light tanks and MBT?
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Whoa!Originally posted by tiggersgd:its not only politics but also to do with religion. their(muslims) god versus IDF(Jews) God which is also my God. its very complex. get it?
It's best to maintain the integrity of the topic as much as possible. This ain't soc.culture.singapore ok? 
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hey who needs puny amx13s or centurions or pt91s or thunderbolts when we have GUNDAMS???
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No it is not.It's totally political actually.The neighbours of israel have just made it religous to get more suppose since there is little sense of nationalisum in that reigon.Originally posted by tiggersgd:its not only politics but also to do with religion. their(muslims) god versus IDF(Jews) God which is also my God. its very complex. get it?
I mean the Jewish God is the same as the Muslim God.Anyone who says otherwise is most likely ignorrant of the other religons.Infact the the Christan God is the same...well....mostly...though when it comes to the part abt the trinity then it's different.But overall they believe in the 1 same God so no religon here.......unless they bring it in for other reasons -
l-l05I, in your mind you may think you know what you are talking about. Fine, you've a free choice to believe what you wish. But don't end up stupid by saying others are stupid who disagree with you. Let's cool it on this religious thingy ok?Originally posted by |-|05|:I mean the Jewish God is the same as the Muslim God.Anyone who says otherwise is stupid.Infact the the Christan God is the same...well....mostly...though when it comes to the part abt the trinity then it's different.But overall they believe in the 1 same God so no religon here.......unless they bring it in for other reasons -
PLs guys, this is a military forum not a religion one so dun turn it into one,k?
The last thing i wanna see in a forum,any forum is a flame war. I'm sure that's a hot topic to start one so pls CEASE FIRE. -
Alright i admit i was alittle hursh and ill say sorry.Originally posted by IAF:l-l05I, in your mind you may think you know what you are talking about. Fine, you've a free choice to believe what you wish. But don't end up stupid by saying others are stupid who disagree with you. Let's cool it on this religious thingy ok?
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No worries mateOriginally posted by |-|05|:Alright i admit i was alittle hursh and ill say sorry. Hey, we're military nuts! That's our religion here -
Hi all,
Guess probably will put a 120mm on Bionix chassis.
or may be a 105mm.
Rgds, -
Well , I guess "If we can't buy it , Make it" . But then this is different from our "Primus" , cos i believe that the fh88 gun was "wrapped" with armour . Any armour guys here got any idea whether our country have the capability to design or make a NEW MBT in standard with the polish tanks which the malaysian purchased ?
Guess probably will put a 120mm on Bionix chassis.
or may be a 105mm. -
i suspect the policy is to go for made-in-singapore.
This talk about not able to get something that meets the requirement is bull shit. If u got money, the defence companies have the solutions. Even if they didnt, they will start from scratch. It is just a execuse to give ST business. I am not against development of capabilities, but sometimes I wonder if it is worth it when it is not widely exported.
As for future tanks, the FCS (Future Combat Systems) program in America sound promising in meeting our requirements. Of interest is the 105mm Mobile Gun System, formerly from the old M8 design (Which could have met our requirements for a light, air mobile tank) -
maybe the government oso considering abt the economy...??? maybe they thought foreign powers might be interested in our primus.. juz like our BXs..???Originally posted by koxinga:i suspect the policy is to go for made-in-singapore.
This talk about not able to get something that meets the requirement is bull shit. If u got money, the defence companies have the solutions. Even if they didnt, they will start from scratch. It is just a execuse to give ST business. I am not against development of capabilities, but sometimes I wonder if it is worth it when it is not widely exported.
As for future tanks, the FCS (Future Combat Systems) program in America sound promising in meeting our requirements. Of interest is the 105mm Mobile Gun System, formerly from the old M8 design (Which could have met our requirements for a light, air mobile tank) -
Most buyers have a NIH mentality.Originally posted by GHoST_18:maybe the government oso considering abt the economy...??? maybe they thought foreign powers might be interested in our primus.. juz like our BXs..???
So don't hold your breath. -
Forget about the FCS. It's too expensive for us, and no army in the world can get it and enjoy its maximum benefits, as it is designed as a networked force to be plugged into the rest of the US armed forces ISR network. In fact, that is one problem which gets their FCS designers worried - that it is too networked, and buying one part of the system just would not work. That would hurt its exportability a lot.Originally posted by koxinga:i suspect the policy is to go for made-in-singapore.
This talk about not able to get something that meets the requirement is bull shit. If u got money, the defence companies have the solutions. Even if they didnt, they will start from scratch. It is just a execuse to give ST business. I am not against development of capabilities, but sometimes I wonder if it is worth it when it is not widely exported.
As for future tanks, the FCS (Future Combat Systems) program in America sound promising in meeting our requirements. Of interest is the 105mm Mobile Gun System, formerly from the old M8 design (Which could have met our requirements for a light, air mobile tank) -
i thought the St designed one is the light tank. SAF bought some MBTs to put in Thailand rite. And i am not talking abt the tempests.
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Taiwan, not Thailand.
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Hold a moment.Originally posted by Typhoon:A word of advice- stop talking about the Merkava. u can talk about centurions as they are on the public domain but not the merkava, okay?
Merkava is also public domain.
Where's the logic here? -
Armour, no matter how many *brilliant this-can-kill-armour-right-now* munitions come out, will still remain relevant.
Armour scares the shit out of infantry who have no way to counter them. We can look at the examples of WWI and the Korean war, where both British and American troops ran from enemy tanks.
WHY? The weapons that had made them so effective and unassailable did not work on these armored behemoths, and in fact, bounced right off.
And sometimes, you just need that MBT or IFV to back up your troops. It gives them more morale, even if it's a large target for any enemy anti-armor weapons they may have. -
Johnston, not that I want to say you or anything, but I really think you should learn to keep your mouth shut. Now, we really don't have any way of confirming anything you are saying, but on the off chance it is true, the SAF operating some other MBT than the Centurion is NOT anywhere in the public domain and should remain that way. If you really have access to privileged information, you should exercise a little more discretion.
You're not impressing anyone here by flaunting your supposed knowledge. You're just looking like an ass. This goes for the little exchange between you and ChineseJunk in the Primus thread as well. Either find out where the public domain lies and learn to stay within it even when you possess more info like Viper52 does, or stop posting.
I think any further discussion on any "other" MBT that the SAF possesses should end here. Could the moderators lock this thread please? -
HELLO!Originally posted by dkhoo:You're not impressing anyone here by flaunting your supposed knowledge. You're just looking like an ass. This goes for the little exchange between you and ChineseJunk in the Primus thread as well. Either find out where the public domain lies and learn to stay within it even when you possess more info like Viper52 does, or stop posting.
I think any further discussion on any "other" MBT that the SAF possesses should end here. Could the moderators lock this thread please?
EXCUSE ME?
Merkava is widely known to be the IAF's standard MBT.
Oodles of information, models, pictures are already extant of it.
Im not confirming, or denying anything.
Im just making a jibe about the clampdown on it.
Clampdowns on things, more often than not serve to CONFIRM suspicions, not block discussion of them. Besides, anyone with a good knowledge of armour can tell you all you would need to know about any MBT currently extant.
Why should we cease talking about a certain piece of equipment just because it may or may not be SAF's secret weapon?
By that implication, we may as well cease talking about every piece of equipment, because they MAY be our secret weapons.
Regards!
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read your 1st paragraph again..cant find anything wrong?Originally posted by Johnston:HELLO!
EXCUSE ME?
Merkava is widely known to be the IAF's standard MBT.
Oodles of information, models, pictures are already extant of it.
Im not confirming, or denying anything.
Im just making a jibe about the clampdown on it.
Clampdowns on things, more often than not serve to CONFIRM suspicions, not block discussion of them. Besides, anyone with a good knowledge of armour can tell you all you would need to know about any MBT currently extant.
Why should we cease talking about a certain piece of equipment just because it may or may not be SAF's secret weapon?
By that implication, we may as well cease talking about every piece of equipment, because they MAY be our secret weapons.
Regards!
key word is IAF...
didnt know we are part of IAF??? btw..i always tot its IDF??
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If you want to talk about the Merkava itself, that's fine. Talk until you feel shiok. That's what this forum is for. I have no problem with that at all. It's a wonderful armored vehicle, which does not have much export success due to political rather than technical factors.
But that's not all you're doing. You have said that you've seen that the SAF has another MBT in service. That is already a huge no-no, even if it were true. Then you go on to list some attributes it has, that will allow an alert foreign IO to immediately guess which one it is. That is simply completely unacceptable.
Of course, our hypothetical foreign IO does not know if what we discuss is real, fake or even deliberate disinformation. But it tells him where to concentrate future resources to determine the truth. Note that this might mean concentrating resources on YOU. The Internet is not that anonymous.
I do not know what kind of security training you got, but it is important not to reveal even small pieces of information that are insignificant in and of themselves, or even if we ourselves are "small fry" with little credibility. Many of these things, put together, either will constitute a major breach, or will lead to a major breach by telling them where to look.
So be careful! This forum is already known to be watched. You have also suggested you have regular contact with COAY, access to privileged information and loose lips. You might draw the "personal attention" of a foreign IO already operating in Singapore, even if you're actually a faker. Blackmail is not fun, which is another reason why keeping a low profile and keeping your mouth shut are very important skills in the SAF.
So remember your security training. Some of the discussions here, particularly the Primus one, skirt too close to the edge. Even if what was revealed there was all fake, it encourages other people with real privileged information to blab, since "everyone else is doing it too". That is not a good trend for this forum at all.
So, general military subjects I have no problem with on this forum. Non-public domain information on the SAF that you saw in Taiwan on exercise, the COA mentioned at lunch, or that you read in the TS docket at your desk, I have a BIG problem with. It's starting to annoy me.
That's all I have to say. -
doh... quit flaming each other
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Excuse me.Originally posted by dkhoo:.
But that's not all you're doing. You have said that you've seen that the SAF has another MBT in service. That is already a huge no-no, even if it were true. .
I do not know what kind of security training you got, but it is important not to reveal even small pieces of information that are insignificant in and of themselves, or even if we ourselves are "small fry" with little credibility. Many of these things, put together, either will constitute a major breach, or will lead to a major breach by telling them where to look.
So remember your security training. Some of the discussions here, particularly the Primus one, skirt too close to the edge. Even if what was revealed there was all fake, it encourages other people with real privileged information to blab, since "everyone else is doing it too". That is not a good trend for this forum at all.
That's all I have to say.
You remind me of Fox mulder.
The truth is out there....
I have never, ever said anything about any MBT other than AMX-13, nor have i insinuated anything. The only thing i said was a gentle reprimand that too much security sometimes backfires.
Centurions are not even supposed to be in SAF ORBAT, yet Jane's and a lot of publications state that we have it. It has never appeared in any parade. So, what are we to do with those that insinuated that we have Centurions?
For all you know, we might have T-90s, Leopards, M1A2s, or that funny Swedish S-tank.
I certainly remember enough of my security edu, thanks, and i have not up to this point told anything that is not public domain, or even disseminated on the Intranet. -
Let's just keep this thread on rail shall we? I mean, what's there to flame about? Let's just keep it cool eh?
My snape observation; I think the Bionix has quite a high profile eh, does anyone here think that by adding a cannon turrent on top might elevate the center of gravity to much and hence offset balance and stability? -
looks the same for the primus....kinda narrow if you view it from the frontOriginally posted by Laplace:Let's just keep this thread on rail shall we? I mean, what's there to flame about? Let's just keep it cool eh?
My snape observation; I think the Bionix has quite a high profile eh, does anyone here think that by adding a cannon turrent on top might elevate the center of gravity to much and hence offset balance and stability?