Singapore Upgrades to F-16 Block 60
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Take with a pinch of salt
http://www.f-16.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=841&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0Singapore recently announced that it is going to upgrade its fleet of Block 52 F-16s, to Block 60 standards.
I would like to ask how the hell a Blk 52 can be upgraded to Blk 60 without rebuilding the entire airframe.
Singapore is also eyeing new Block 60's as a replacement for its ageing A-4SU Super Skyhawks.
The F-16 Block 60 avionics owe a great deal to the F-22 and Joint Strike Fighter. The new fighter has a completely new cockpit, with three 5 x 7 inch color displays. Behind the displays is a fiber-optic high-speed datalink, a new mission computer based on commercial technology, and a data transfer system using 30-gigabyte cartridges.
In action, the Block 60 displays share the "look and feel" of the F-22. Threats and friendlies, identified by the Northrop Grumman electronic warfare suite, by AWACS or other means, are distinguished by shape and color on the screens. A single button-push creates a "shoot list" on the right-hand attack display, assigning an AMRAAM to the closest targets.
Unlike the basic F-22, though, the Block 60 also creates a "bomb list" for air-to-ground targets or a "jam list" for electronic threats. The APG-80 radar has a variable resolution synthetic aperture radar (VRSAR) mode that allows the pilot to identify aimpoints within a target complex such as a SAM site. Again, single-switch angles allow the pilot to toggle between SAR, EW and infra-red displays.
The F-16 Block 60 is due to fly this year and the first aircraft will be delivered to the UAE in 2004.
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ah?!??!?!!?? wah liao... sian 1/2
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Take the news with a pinch of salt. I will believe when it is announced on some respectable source like Janes.Originally posted by kopiosatu:ah?!??!?!!?? wah liao... sian 1/2 -
I read this in the recent Flight International article also, in regards to UAE APG-80 AESA radar on this Nov, also mention about RSAF may want to upgrade to blk 60
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are airframe modification very difficult...??
furthermore.. if the blk 60 is really that much better... and if it is feasible...why not upgrade our 52s to 60s... -
i think is also a cost cutting measure also?Originally posted by tripwire:are airframe modification very difficult...??
furthermore.. if the blk 60 is really that much better... and if it is feasible...why not upgrade our 52s to 60s...
....wonder we will order the CFTs or nt.... -
The same way the M'sians upgrade their hornet c/d to e/f. If they ever do... lol
If u guys been to the open house, u may have tried the block 60 simulator. What the reports claim is true, esp the "user friendliness" of the combat system. Glass cockpit, as well as "killer software" -
I doubt RSAF would modify the current Block 52 Vipers to Block 60. It will most likely be a hybrid Advanced Block 52/Block 60.
I will assume, if such a modification is taken up to include:
1. the APG-80 AESA radar
2. the new cockpit wiht 3 5x7 inch LCDs.
3. new mission computer, new wiring to fibre optics, etc.
4. new IR pods like Litening 2 or Sniper XR.
5. DASH 4??? (Some Vipers already use DASH 3???)
6. The ALQ-165 electronic countermeasures system, also known as the Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ) (** I will rate it only as a maybe **)
7. JDAM, JSOW and SLAM integration
What would not be included (IMHO) due to ecomonical considerations might be:
1. the 32,000 lb engine
2. CFTs (maybe for the latest 20 aircraft ordered in 2000 which are built to the Advanced Block 52 standards, they might be CFT capable already and RSAF may just fit the CFT to these 20).
3. Internal FLIR Targeting System (IFTS). More economical to carry SniperXR or Litening 2 pods.
Anyway it will be interesting to see if this **rumor** eventuates. -
How significant is the capabilities of the Blk 60 compared to the Blk52+? If our forthcoming batch of the F16s can be upgraded to the Blk52+ standard, with most if not all the stuff & systems, to what extend can they measure up against the Blk60 currently being offered to the RSAF. If the RSAF can upgrade all our vipers to varying standards, eg. baseline level1 for all, then level 2 for some of the D version, and finally level 3 for the last 20, wouldn't it make more econmical sense than buying another 20 of the Blk60s?
If we will to buy the Blk60s, it would make sense in terms of logistics, training, and even maintenance. But I don't see any incremental increase in our strike capabilities. Moreover, if the RSAF is planning to replace the Vipers with the F-35, wouldn't that create something like a Block obsolescene of the entire viper fleet spread over a 10 year period, say from 2015~2025? Wasn't this one of the reasons why we upgraded the Skyhawks in the first place, when the RSAF just couldn't afford to replace the whole fleet of A4s with new gen. of fighters???
My point is, would the other contenders be a better option than the F16 Blk 60, with respect to the possible needs and requirements of the RSAF 10~15 years from now? Can it perform the roles that were envisaged for the other contenders, which ironically are all twin-engined? As much as I like the Viper, I can't see the Blk60 suitable as a replacement for the remaining A4s. Give me the Typhoon or the F15variant anytime. I believe they are more suitable for a Hi-Lo mix.
Just my $0.02 worth. Eagerly awaiting the baptisms of fire coming this way... -
Joe Black, I agree with your assessments, I believe it will be a radar and electronics/avionics upgrade to the Block 60 standards, upgrades requiring airframe modifications to be passed over. As for the "not included" point, as far as Point 2 goes, what I've heard from friends over at LM concur. Point 3 I would rate as unlikely but still possible.Originally posted by Joe Black:I doubt RSAF would modify the current Block 52 Vipers to Block 60. It will most likely be a hybrid Advanced Block 52/Block 60.
I will assume, if such a modification is taken up to include:
1. the APG-80 AESA radar
2. the new cockpit wiht 3 5x7 inch LCDs.
3. new mission computer, new wiring to fibre optics, etc.
4. new IR pods like Litening 2 or Sniper XR.
5. DASH 4??? (Some Vipers already use DASH 3???)
6. The ALQ-165 electronic countermeasures system, also known as the Airborne Self-Protection Jammer (ASPJ) (** I will rate it only as a maybe **)
7. JDAM, JSOW and SLAM integration
What would not be included (IMHO) due to ecomonical considerations might be:
1. the 32,000 lb engine
2. CFTs (maybe for the latest 20 aircraft ordered in 2000 which are built to the Advanced Block 52 standards, they might be CFT capable already and RSAF may just fit the CFT to these 20).
3. Internal FLIR Targeting System (IFTS). More economical to carry SniperXR or Litening 2 pods.
Anyway it will be interesting to see if this **rumor** eventuates. -
Viper, well, I'm sure you will be one of the first guy to know since you have such good contacts. I haven't had a good "chat" with my reli's and friend from the RSAF for a good while, so I am only feeding off public domain stuffs - which is okOriginally posted by Viper52:Joe Black, I agree with your assessments, I believe it will be a radar and electronics/avionics upgrade to the Block 60 standards, upgrades requiring airframe modifications to be passed over. As for the "not included" point, as far as Point 2 goes, what I've heard from friends over at LM concur. Point 3 I would rate as unlikely but still possible.
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My gut feeling says that the media (or rumor) blew it a bit too loud. RSAF hasn't officially confirmed any mod or upgrade for the Block 52 Vipers. The earliest batch of 18 is probably due for a mod or upgrade, the latest (don't count those still in the production line) are still just about 5 years old or less. So what is RSAF going to do with all the spare APG-68(V)7 radars ?? I think the mod and upgrade will most likely be progressive and we will see RSAF having its own "block" upgrade
Still no words on the old A/B Vipers? Why not sell them to Thailand or Phillippines??? Sell them cheap cheap (5 million or so per copy and I'm sure they will snap them up). Otherwise, I can't think of a worse case scenario where RSAF will have to maintain different "variants" of Vipers, from the Block 15, Block 52 (various mod like colour LCDs etc), Advanced Block 52 and possible some hybrid mod Block 60... Oh my goodness
My 2 cents only. -
Sell the A/Bs to DSTA and let them see what they can come up with. If i am not wrong, one A is already upgraded to Falcon ONE standard.
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I have not heard of any F-16A/Bs that have undergone the Falcon One upgrade, but at AA2002, a F-16A that had been upgraded by DSTA(not ST Aero), was showcased. They renamed it F-16TD(Technology Demostrator) or something like that.
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The FALCON ONE aircraft was leased to ST from RSAF to serve as a technology demonstrator for the FALCON ONE upgrade. So far the RSAF nor any other air forces have expressed an interest for an upgrade for their F-16A/Bs, nor is it likely they ever will. Joe Black and I have gone through this a while back, to make the reasons behind this short and sweet, would you pay US$15-20m to upgrade a Block 15, or purchase a spanking brand new F-16C/D Block 52 for slightly over US$20 million?
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RSAF has made it clear that it will not pursue this upgrade option. However, my understanding is that the FALCON ONE was used by ST Aero and RSAF to test out man-machine interface. If I remember the cockpit design correctly, it contains 3 large screen LCDs just like the Block 52+/Block 60 would be.Originally posted by Viper52:The FALCON ONE aircraft was leased to ST from RSAF to serve as a technology demonstrator for the FALCON ONE upgrade. So far the RSAF nor any other air forces have expressed an interest for an upgrade for their F-16A/Bs, nor is it likely they ever will.
In any case, I find that keeping the 7 (still in RSAF) + 1 (Falcon One) is a waste of resources and money. The best thing is to flog it off to the secondhand markets. I'm sure the IAF will be glad to get them as attrition frames, or the Pakistanis would be desparate to get hold of addition Block 15s.
Hey, here is an idea, sell the FALCON ONE upgrade to them hee hee -
Major problems with that:Originally posted by Joe Black:I'm sure the IAF will be glad to get them as attrition frames, or the Pakistanis would be desparate to get hold of addition Block 15s.
Hey, here is an idea, sell the FALCON ONE upgrade to them hee hee
IDF I'm sure would prefer replacing attrition with F-16C/Ds, the later block the better. They will face no political opposition from the US anyway
To sell ex-US equipment, you HAVE to get Yank okay. The more the Taliban use NWFP to stage attack on US troops and Karzai's people in Afghanistan, and the ISI continuing to covertly or overtly supporting them, expect US-Pakistan relations to turn frosty soon.