RSAF's choice of replacement jet fighter narrows down...
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Same hereOriginally posted by kanzer:i have feeling that the type of plane has already been chosen.....
http://www.sedb.com/edbcorp/sg/en_uk/index/in_the_news/publications/singapore_now_2003/singaporenow_-_jun0/singaporenow__volume.html
REGIONAL FOCUS
Research pact with France
The first day of the Asia Pacific Conference yesterday saw France and Singapore lift their already close defence relations to a new plane with the signing of an agreement for joint studies in aerospace and radar technology. Paris-based defence giant, Thales, will follow suit with a similar agreement that will be inked today. This will pave the way for Thales to set up a research lab - its first Asian-based research facility - in Singapore. Sealing the deal, the first between France and an Asia-Pacific country, on the sidelines of the defence talks tagged it with more significance than had it been held at any other time. For starters, the memorandum of understanding signed between the Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) and Onera, France's leading aerospace research agency, capped two years of talks between France and Singapore on the way defence technology research between the two countries could be strengthened. Some $2 million will be spent initially to set up a lab outside Paris. Defence officials said it was a visible demonstration of Singapore's commitment to broadening its defence cooperation with partners in Europe, to complement strong ties with America.
Adapted from The Straits Times 31 May 2003 -
Well if Rafale is indeed being chosen, I will be singing and dancing - figuratively speaking... because I think SAF has matured enough to choose what is best for Singapore militarily instead of kow tow to some political pressureOriginally posted by touchstone_2000:Same here
http://www.sedb.com/edbcorp/sg/en_uk/index/in_the_news/publications/singapore_now_2003/singaporenow_-_jun0/singaporenow__volume.html
REGIONAL FOCUS
Research pact with France
The first day of the Asia Pacific Conference yesterday saw France and Singapore lift their already close defence relations to a new plane with the signing of an agreement for joint studies in aerospace and radar technology. Paris-based defence giant, Thales, will follow suit with a similar agreement that will be inked today. This will pave the way for Thales to set up a research lab - its first Asian-based research facility - in Singapore. Sealing the deal, the first between France and an Asia-Pacific country, on the sidelines of the defence talks tagged it with more significance than had it been held at any other time. For starters, the memorandum of understanding signed between the Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) and Onera, France's leading aerospace research agency, capped two years of talks between France and Singapore on the way defence technology research between the two countries could be strengthened. Some $2 million will be spent initially to set up a lab outside Paris. Defence officials said it was a visible demonstration of Singapore's commitment to broadening its defence cooperation with partners in Europe, to complement strong ties with America.
Adapted from The Straits Times 31 May 2003
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Furthermore, the "Made in France" label is always "sexier" than "Made in USA" or "Made in UK" or "Made in Deutschland".
Does that mean that Singapore now gets to play with Active Array radar? What about license produce the Mica AAMs too huh? hee hee -
I was hoping that the choosen plane is not American 1s also......Originally posted by Joe Black:Well if Rafale is indeed being chosen, I will be singing and dancing - figuratively speaking... because I think SAF has matured enough to choose what is best for Singapore militarily instead of kow tow to some political pressure -
to side track a bit.... and on a lighter note.... maybe spore pools should consider taking bets in:
1) the type of helo selected for the FFGs
2) the NGF for the RSAF
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UPDATE 1-Eurofighter flights to resume, deliveries ready
Mon November 3, 2003 01:02 PM ET
By Jason Neely, European Aerospace & Airlines Correspondent
LONDON, Nov 3 (Reuters) - Builders of the Eurofighter said on Monday the fighter jets would be cleared to fly again within days, allowing first deliveries to resume less than a month after a surprise braking failure shook the programme.
"Clearance for the DA (development aircraft) fleet to fly is being finalised this afternoon and they should start flying tomorrow or on Wednesday morning," said Ian Bustin, spokesman for the Eurofighter consortium.
Some test planes have received approval to fly and he said the next step would be to approve production aircraft destined for the air forces of Germany, Italy, Spain and the UK.
Approval is required from a joint air safety panel of industry and air force officials.
"Everything is coming back on stream...it's a matter of days," Bustin said, referring to production flight approval.
A test plane was forced to land without brakes last month, halting flights and triggering a probe of the incident.
"What they are saying is that it was an anomaly in a landing gear computer," Bustin said, adding the jet involved had resumed flying.
"The worst-case scenario was that it was a software failure or a general systems failure, we would then have had a much more difficult audit process," he said.
The setback came as the four nations building the Eurofighter were beginning the first of 620 deliveries planned.
Germany and Spain have received their first production versions while planes for the UK and Italy are ready.
"We have three that are ready to go to the UK as soon as the suspension of flying is lifted and two that are due to go to Italy," Bustin said.
Eurofighter expects to deliver up to 26 of the aircraft this year, part of a first tranche of 148 jets.
TRANCHE TWO
Talks about a second tranche have begun amid speculation that budget constraints in the UK and elsewhere could lead to order cutbacks, something Bustin said would not happen.
"Tranche Two negotiations are not about the numbers, the numbers for Tranche Two are absolutely set in stone," he said. "Tranche Two is about what capability goes on those aircraft and when you start building them."
A deal must be struck by early 2004 to avoid costly disruptions in production at the four final assembly sites.
The jets cost from $45 million to $65 million and high-volume production is key to keeping costs down.
Upgrades in the second tranche are expected to include better missiles, including the Meteor beyond visual range air-to-air missile built by a European consortium led by MBDA.
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somehow i have a feeling that this is the one -
Well, if they do start taking bets, i'll be keeping my money in my pocket, thanks very much. The race is a bit too close to call, i think.Originally posted by kanzer:to side track a bit.... and on a lighter note.... maybe spore pools should consider taking bets in:
1) the type of helo selected for the FFGs
2) the NGF for the RSAF -
21-27 October 2003 Flight International
Upgrades Guy Norris/ St Louis
F-15Ts to include radar revamp
Boeing says its F-15T offer for the Singapore interim fighter need will 'almost certainly' include the actively electronically scanned array version of Raytheon's APG-63 radar. The latest variant of the APG-63 will be configured with new transmit/receive modules and countermeasures suite, and be air-to-ground capable. The radar could be delivered in late 2007, the original Singapore service-entry target, although this depends on development funding for a planned upgrade to the version being retrofitted to the US Air Force F-15Cs.
Final assembly of the first of 40 F-15Ks for th eSouth Korea begins in May 2004, with first flight in March 2005 and delivery of the first two fighters dus the following November. FInal deliveries of the aircraft ordered under the original $3.6 billion contract are due in August 2008, although South Korea is expected to begin its budget request for "additional high-end fighters" in 2004, says Winker, its original requirement was for 120 aircraft.
New weapons on the F-15 include the AGM-84 Harpoon and SLAM-ER missiles and the 500lb (225kg) JDAM GPS guided bomb. The South Korean aircraft will also be the first production F-15 powered by the General Electric F110-129 engine, and will be equipped with the AIM-9X missile and the Lockheed Martin Tiger Eyes targeting , navigating and infrared search and track pod. -
Singapore narrows figher competion
Boeing, Dasualt and Eurofighter bids are shortlisted
Defense Brendon Sobie/Singapore
Flight International 14-20 October 2003
Singapore has shortlisted the BOeing F-15T, Dassualt Rafale and Eurofighter Typhoon in its next-genration fighter competion.
The Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 60 and Suhkoi SU-30/35 have been excluded. SIngapore, however, could still place a follow-on order for F-16s.
Boeing, Dassualt and Eurofighter will now respond to a tender for eight fighters, with winner to be selected in late 2004 or 2005 and deliveries starting in 2008 or 2009, Singapore 's ministry of defense which had been planning a 10 aircraft buy plus options,now says a follow-on purchase for 12-16 fighters is possible "in the near future".
Many anticipated the Raflae would be eliminated because it made after-deadline revisions after the French government dropped financial support for th eexport variant. Dassualt offering Singapore the options of investing in a new variant, with upgraded Snecma engines and Thales avionics.
Singpaore is entertaining this proposal because of th extra work it would provide for Sinapore Technologies Aerospace. But it is still considered a long short because of th anticapted steep devlopment price tag and the likelihood in will not be ready by 2008.
The F-15T, probably equipped with Raytheon's active electronically scanned APG-63 radar, requires the least local work and is most certain to meet th e2008 requirement.
Industry sources say Lockheed is suprised the F-16 is rejected given current F-16 inventpry. But Singapore could still opt for more F-16s - either on top of or instead of a new fighter- as it re-evalutes its force structure next year. -
I think procuring F15Ts is one issue, being able to get our hands on weapons like Have Lite, AIM-9X, AMRAAM and SLAM ER is another.
Note that Boeing say's the AESA's a "almost case" US Congress might beg to differ.
Take our F16s for example, we are allowed to purchase and operate the most sophisticated Fighting Falcons in the world (short of the BLK 60 and now F16I i.e) but we still cannot get our 100 AMRAAMS shipped back home for fitting onto their pylons. I believe the US's policy is that it will not be the first to introduce new miltary technology to a region; but Malaysia has already rendered that clause null when they bought their MIG 29Ns together with advanced 4th-generation missiles. MINDEF must have reminded the US that, so short of other motives, I cannot see why the US should hold on to our AMRAAMs. -
I think you need to be updated on this, SG & Thailand r either have received or their way to receive the AMRAAMS by this year.Originally posted by Laplace:I think procuring F15Ts is one issue, being able to get our hands on weapons like Have Lite, AIM-9X, AMRAAM and SLAM ER is another.
Note that Boeing say's the AESA's a "almost case" US Congress might beg to differ.
Take our F16s for example, we are allowed to purchase and operate the most sophisticated Fighting Falcons in the world (short of the BLK 60 and now F16I i.e) but we still cannot get our 100 AMRAAMS shipped back home for fitting onto their pylons. I believe the US's policy is that it will not be the first to introduce new miltary technology to a region; but Malaysia has already rendered that clause null when they bought their MIG 29Ns together with advanced 4th-generation missiles. MINDEF must have reminded the US that, so short of other motives, I cannot see why the US should hold on to our AMRAAMs. -
The refusal of the US to grant AMRAAM deliveries to Singapore is a key pointer, as I've always said, that Malaysia *might not* have the R-77. There is no doubt the TUDM MiG-29Ns have R-77 capability, the question is whether the TUDM has physical stocks of the weapons.Originally posted by Laplace:but Malaysia has already rendered that clause null when they bought their MIG 29Ns together with advanced 4th-generation missiles.
From what I gather, the answer is no.
The release of AMRAAMs to Taiwan, Thailand and Singapore has been given. The reason for this is not R-77s in Malaysia, but R-77s in China, which is considered part of the region, hence the US will not be the ones introducing the weapons to the region.Originally posted by Laplace:MINDEF must have reminded the US that, so short of other motives, I cannot see why the US should hold on to our AMRAAMs.
FWIW, the missiles were originally stored in Guam, not CONUS. -
Sorry ah, something out of context. You guys seem like airplane freaks so I'm just wondering if anyone played the flight sim Falcon 4.0????
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I think you guys really need to see the F-35 JSF thread i posted there
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If TUDM eventually received R-77, we'll lose out as R-77's range is double of AMRAAM.Originally posted by Viper52:The refusal of the US to grant AMRAAM deliveries to Singapore is a key pointer, as I've always said, that Malaysia *might not* have the R-77. There is no doubt the TUDM MiG-29Ns have R-77 capability, the question is whether the TUDM has physical stocks of the weapons.
From what I gather, the answer is no. .
I think that's the reason why RSAF choose to buy 68 F-16s to outnumber them.
Am I correct
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Found this report about F15 in
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/f-15.htm
F15 may not be that impressive after all.
The US Air Force claims the F-15C is in several respects inferior to, or at best equal to, the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-35/37, Rafale, and EF-2000, which are variously superior in acceleration, maneuverability, engine thrust, rate of climb, avionics, firepower, radar signature, or range. Although the F-15C and Su-27P series are similar in many categories, the Su-27 can outperform the F-15C at both long and short ranges. In long-range encounters, with its superiorr radar the Su-27 can launch a missile before the F-15C does, so from a purely kinematic standpoint, the Russian fighters outperform the F-15C in the beyond-visual-range fight. The Su-35 phased array radar is superior to the APG-63 Doppler radar in both detection range and tracking capabilities. Additionally, the Su-35 propulsion system increases the aircraftÂ’s maneuverability with thrust vectoring nozzles. Simulations conducted by British Aerospace and the British Defense Research Agency compared the effectiveness of the F-15C, Rafale, EF-2000, and F-22 against the Russian Su-35 armed with active radar missiles similar to the AIM-120 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM). The Rafale achieved a 1:1 kill ratio (1 Su-35 destroyed for each Rafale lost). The EF-2000 kill ratio was 4.5:1 while the F-22 achieved a ratio of 10:1. In stark contrast was the F-15C, losing 1.3 Eagles for each Su-35 destroyed. -
Ah izzit? Alamark, scold wrong pple already.Originally posted by gary1910:I think you need to be updated on this, SG & Thailand r either have received or their way to receive the AMRAAMS by this year.
Must find an American and hug and kiss, and say sorry oredi.
Thks gary. -
84mmrr,
what u said abt the F-15C is very true.
why do u think USAF is buying F-22 and F-35?
although i feel the report misses a few factors in the F-15C's favour - better RWR and ECM, as well as smaller RCS. also the sukhoi's agility advantage is more or less negated if both planes have new off-boresight missiles like R73, AIM-9x and python 5.
the F-15T in the RSAF competition however is much superior to any F-15C. has much better engines, radar and FLIR that beat anything the sukhoi has. together with AMRAAM and offboresight missiles the F-15T can beat a su-35/37 at both BVR and WVR.
also the notion that the R77 has twice the range of AMRAAM is a common misconception actually. a missile's max range depends a lot on the speed and altitude it is launched - a AMRAAM launch from a F22 at mach 1.5 has 50% further range compared to a mach 0.8 launch.
so popularly-quoted figures of a 60-80 mile range for R77 are actually pretty much inflated, most likely vympel (R77's maker) quoting such figures without telling u the launch speed was something like mach 2. US manufacturers are somewhat more honest and the "30-50 mile" figure for AMRAAM is probably for subsonic launch speeds.
in reality, from what ive read given the same launch conditions the AMRAAm actually has longer range than R77. so dont worry there
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That report has been met with a certain amount of sceptism from a number of quarters, due to the timing which it was released - when the F-22 program was having funding cuts... Some believe that this report has been released to boost support for the F-22 program...
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Well actually 30-50mile range is already pretty impressive but the official stats says 30++miles meaning the minium max range is 30miles.That meaning everything going againest it the missile is at least good for 30miles.Originally posted by wd1:84mmrr,
what u said abt the F-15C is very true.
why do u think USAF is buying F-22 and F-35?
although i feel the report misses a few factors in the F-15C's favour - better RWR and ECM, as well as smaller RCS. also the sukhoi's agility advantage is more or less negated if both planes have new off-boresight missiles like R73, AIM-9x and python 5.
the F-15T in the RSAF competition however is much superior to any F-15C. has much better engines, radar and FLIR that beat anything the sukhoi has. together with AMRAAM and offboresight missiles the F-15T can beat a su-35/37 at both BVR and WVR.
also the notion that the R77 has twice the range of AMRAAM is a common misconception actually. a missile's max range depends a lot on the speed and altitude it is launched - a AMRAAM launch from a F22 at mach 1.5 has 50% further range compared to a mach 0.8 launch.
so popularly-quoted figures of a 60-80 mile range for R77 are actually pretty much inflated, most likely vympel (R77's maker) quoting such figures without telling u the launch speed was something like mach 2. US manufacturers are somewhat more honest and the "30-50 mile" figure for AMRAAM is probably for subsonic launch speeds.
in reality, from what ive read given the same launch conditions the AMRAAm actually has longer range than R77. so dont worry there -
Spore is buy so many f-16? All 68?Originally posted by 84mmrr:If TUDM eventually received R-77, we'll lose out as R-77's range is double of AMRAAM.
I think that's the reason why RSAF choose to buy 68 F-16s to outnumber them.
Am I correct -
that's the total number that we should have by 2003/4.Originally posted by Paladin:Spore is buy so many f-16? All 68?
US Arms sales report for 2002 indicated some delivery of F16s under the direct commercial sales
http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/655-2002/6552002.html -
wd1,Originally posted by wd1:84mmrr,
what u said abt the F-15C is very true.
why do u think USAF is buying F-22 and F-35?
although i feel the report misses a few factors in the F-15C's favour - better RWR and ECM, as well as smaller RCS. also the sukhoi's agility advantage is more or less negated if both planes have new off-boresight missiles like R73, AIM-9x and python 5.
the F-15T in the RSAF competition however is much superior to any F-15C. has much better engines, radar and FLIR that beat anything the sukhoi has. together with AMRAAM and offboresight missiles the F-15T can beat a su-35/37 at both BVR and WVR.
also the notion that the R77 has twice the range of AMRAAM is a common misconception actually. a missile's max range depends a lot on the speed and altitude it is launched - a AMRAAM launch from a F22 at mach 1.5 has 50% further range compared to a mach 0.8 launch.
so popularly-quoted figures of a 60-80 mile range for R77 are actually pretty much inflated, most likely vympel (R77's maker) quoting such figures without telling u the launch speed was something like mach 2. US manufacturers are somewhat more honest and the "30-50 mile" figure for AMRAAM is probably for subsonic launch speeds.
in reality, from what ive read given the same launch conditions the AMRAAm actually has longer range than R77. so dont worry there
Thanks for your reply.
I suppose RSAF can't be buying some weapons that are not useful to us. -
JDW 15 October 2003
Singapore shortlist fighter bids
Craig Hoyle/ JDW Aviation EditorLondon
Singapore 's Defense Science and Technology Agency shortlisted three bidders on 10 October for the final phase of a competition to equip its air force up to 24 new fighters aircraft from late this decade.
Hinting at a possible departure from its traditional procurement of strike aircraft produced by US manufacturers, the country has identified two European suppliers and just on US proposal as having the potential to meet its future requirements.
The competition has been reduced to include US Boeing F-15T, the Rafale offered by French team comprising Dassualt Aviation, Snecma and Thales; and the Typhoon manufactured by the four-nation Eurofighter consortium. Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet; Lockheed Martin F-16 Block 60; and Sukhoi Su-30MK were eliminated from the running.
The Reupblic of Singapore Air FOrce (RSAF) requirements is for an initial squadron of 8 aircraft, with an additional 12-16 fighters to be procured later. "We expect to take delivery of our first aircraft in 2008-09," said MInistry of National Defense (MINDEF) spokeperson on 10 October. The new type will replace the air force's ageing fleet of A-4SU Skyhawk attack aircraft, around 40 of which remain in squadron service.
"The final [platform] selection will most probably be made in late 2004 or 2005," said the MINDEF source, noting that "the exact timing will depend on the evalution process". This scehdule shows a marked slow-down from earlier proposals, which sought a contract announcement late this year and first aircraft deliveries during 2006-2007 (JDW 6 March 2003). Exact details of RSAF contract - including final numbers and cost - will become clear following release of invitations to tender around mid-November.
Boeing's F-15T is a further development of the US Air Force's F-15E and the derivative F-15K, which was selected by the Republic of Korea Air FOrce last year to meet a 40-aircaft requirement. The aircraft is the heaviest under consideration; its maximum takeorr weight of almost 37,000kg is about 14,000kg greater than either European platform. Boeing officials hope to build on F-15's recent success in South Korea, where it saw off competition from both the Rafale and Typhoon designs.
French industry, meanwhile, hopes to secure its first export success for th eRaflae, which lost out to the F-15K in thefinal phase of Seoul's approximately $4.5 billion F-X fighter competition contest. The Dassualt-lead team is believied to be promoting its Rafale mk2 in Signapore , which features more powerfull engines and enhanced avionics equipment, although Dassualt declined to confirm this a s JDW went to press.
Eurofighter officials are looking to expand Typhoon's export book, following the singapore seater's recent success in securing an Austrian order for 18 aircraft.
Singapore competition also includes requirmeents f ro extensive technology transfer and could request the oversea deployment of one squadron of aircraft to assist in training activites. The RSAF already maintains Skyhawks and F-16 detachments in France and US, respectively, and bid leader BAE Systems has offered Singapore the opportunity to operate Typhoons in the UK.
Although its elimination from the contest will come as a blow to LOckheed Martin, which has been contracted supply the RSAF with 58 F-16 since the late 1980s, the company could benefit in the longer term through Signapore;s interest in th eF-35 Joint Striek Fighter (JSF). Singaproe is security co-operation participants in the Lockheed MArtin-led JSF project, following its $50 million commitment to the programme's system devlopment and demonstration phase earlier this year(JDW 5 March)