RSAF Fighter shortlist announced
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But these days naval ships are armed with OICWs and whatnots designed to shoot down missiles... Suggest getting a sea skimming missile.. harpoon if am not wrong is quite heavy. Was having a discussion with a buddy in school about Harriers carrying 2 harpoons and can barely take off thru conventional runway takeoff.
Heehee... or should we do it the old fashioned way? Bouncing bombs~ heehee... -
You mean CIWS? Even if the CIWS manage to shoot down the missile, the ship will not escape damage due to shrapnel and the explosion.
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damage due to shrapnel is better than a bull's eyes hit...... recall falklands.....what can the damage done by an exocet to a frigate/destroyer..... for fleet ops wise, a ship being hit and sunk by an AShM will somehow have a demoralising effect on sailors in the rest of the armada....... to see one of your own ship sinking in the battle is not a pretty sight.....Originally posted by eurofighter:You mean CIWS? Even if the CIWS manage to shoot down the missile, the ship will not escape damage due to shrapnel and the explosion. -
For our local waters – IMHO - Maverick is a superior missile than Harpoon for anti-ship missions because of following advantages:Originally posted by Moonstriker:But these days naval ships are armed with OICWs and whatnots designed to shoot down missiles... Suggest getting a sea skimming missile.. harpoon if am not wrong is quite heavy. Was having a discussion with a buddy in school about Harriers carrying 2 harpoons and can barely take off thru conventional runway takeoff.
Heehee... or should we do it the old fashioned way? Bouncing bombs~ heehee...
- Selectively aim / targeting capabilities.
- Deliberate salvo attack / multi-missiles attack on a single particular target ship.
- Payload of several missiles per aircraft / mission.
- No targeting radar emission to warn the enemy ship
”””” Heehee... or should we do it the old fashioned way? Bouncing bombs~ heehee... “””
Best of luck to the pilots – they NEED it -
Mavericks are not acutally design for anti-ship roles. In fact, only the G version with a slightly longer range has been built for use against ships.Originally posted by thomasct:For our local waters – IMHO - Maverick is a superior missile than Harpoon for anti-ship missions because of following advantages:
- Selectively aim / targeting capabilities.
- Deliberate salvo attack / multi-missiles attack on a single particular target ship.
- Payload of several missiles per aircraft / mission.
- No targeting radar emission to warn the enemy ship
”””” Heehee... or should we do it the old fashioned way? Bouncing bombs~ heehee... “””
Best of luck to the pilots – they NEED it
Mavericks also have a relatively short maximum range, approximately 25KM from a high attitude launch. Harpoon on the other hand can reach approximately120KM on a sea skimming attitude. Thus, you tell me Mavericks are better? How can it be? The Skyhawks and Vipers will have to be within the Seawolf SAM range to launch a Mavericks whereas a Harpoon launched by the Fokker or Viper can be as far as 50 KM - way outside the Seawolf range.
The only reason I suspect RSAF chose to use Mavericks in the past and only recently started to use Harpoons is that the theatre of anti-surface operations were pretty much limited to Straits of Singapore, Malaysia and possible just the Southern most of the South China Sea. RSAF and RSN has extended this radius to somewhat bigger, and thus having a long range OTH anti-ships missiles make sense. Harpoons are a lot more expensive and the Naval vessels already use them, so air launched version were not so much needed.
Penguin ASM would have been good. Singapore in fact tried to acquired them but were blocked by the Norwegian govt. Couldn't even purchase an American made one without Norway's approval. the Mk3 Penguin, like the ASM Maverick, uses an IR seeker rather than an active radar with OTH datalink like the Harpoon or Exocets. -
u know, we could buy copperhead shells for our FH2000s...
then install long-range laser designators in our UAVs...
have the UAVs (or even NDU guys in zodiac) designate the enemy ships and let arty blast them from 40km away
useful i guess if and when we've lost pedra branca and hemmed into the singapore straits
cheap and uninterceptable antiship system!! -
Any idea why the Norwegian goverment blocked the deal? They are currently marketing the missile rather aggresively and the Australians have also got it.Originally posted by Joe Black:Penguin ASM would have been good. Singapore in fact tried to acquired them but were blocked by the Norwegian govt. Couldn't even purchase an American made one without Norway's approval. the Mk3 Penguin, like the ASM Maverick, uses an IR seeker rather than an active radar with OTH datalink like the Harpoon or Exocets. -
1 qn: is 140 sqn n 141 sqn combine?
bcos of this
[21:50] * Now talking in #rsaf
[21:50] * Topic is '140 SQN and 141 SQN combined squadron�'
[21:50] * Set by H_U_M_A_N on Fri Oct 24 21:03:15 -
Our Fokkers are the only aircraft using air launched Harpoons at the moment.
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we can engage those ships with our scimitar gundams wad... chop them into half.
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Vexing Issue of Workshare Resurfaces Over Eurofighter
Aviation Week & Space Technology
10/20/2003, page 55
Douglas Barrie
London
Eurofighter Typhoon partners haggle over workshare issues
Percentage Game
The highly charged issue of work-share is reemerging as Eurofighter partner nations play brinksmanship as they struggle to conclude tricky Tranche 2 negotiations.
Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain are locked in contract negotiations for the second production run of the Typhoon aircraft. Along with industrial issues, the four partner-nations are trying to thrash out the technical baseline for the Tranche 2 standard which will have a significantly improved air-to-surface capability.
The most recent target date for signing off on Tranche 2 is by year-end but some industry executives involved in the Typhoon are concerned that, given the difficulty of the discussions, this may not be met.
Failure to conclude a production contract by year-end courts the emergence of a "production gap" between Tranche 1 and 2, warned one executive. Stop-start production would raise costs on the program, placing further strain on funding.
The suspicion that Britain faces the near inevitability of having to cut Typhoon numbers is fueling the debate on workshare among the partners. At present the U.K. has 37%, Germany 30%, Italy 19% and Spain 14%, predicated on purchases of: 232, 180, 121 and 87 aircraft, respectively. Germany was forced to relinquish work on the program when it reduced its aircraft numbers in the mid-1990s. Agreement on the present workshare arrangements was reached in 1996.
The U.K. is taking 55 Typhoons from Tranche 1, with 89 to be procured as part of Tranche 2. At present, the Defense Ministry will also contract for 88 aircraft as part of Tranche 3. However, there is a substantial doubt as to what extent, and even whether, any of this batch will ever be achieved.
Britain also had an option for a further 65 aircraft, but this already appears to have been quietly discarded.
With a Defense White Paper to be published around year-end, the British Defense Ministry has been reviewing program commitments alongside a study conducted on future combat aircraft number requirements.
Industry officials close to the program have told Aviation Week & Space Technology that both Germany and Italy are pushing to see workshare on the program reconsidered in light of concern over a drop in the number of aircraft Britain purchases.
While publicly the British government and defense officials adhere to the 232 aircraft, senior officials have privately admitted this figure is almost certainly untenable. With considerable pressure on medium- to long-term defense expenditure, there is an expectation the U.K. will have to reduce Typhoon numbers.
Against this backdrop, the other partners, and Germany in particular, are looking to address workshare.
Were Britain, however, to unilaterally reduce the number of Typhoon combat aircraft it intended to purchase, it would then be liable to compensate the other partner nations for any increase in unit cost. The penalty-clause payments would effectively negate expenditure savings in terms of initial procurement costs.
Industry executives and defense ministry sources have previously suggested U.K. strategy was to try to conclude present Tranche 2 discussions before broaching the thorny issue of the number of aircraft for a third production run.
BAE Systems is the U.K. industry lead and one of the three companies involved in Eurofighter GmbH.; the others are EADS and Finmeccanica subsidiary Alenia Aeronautica. BAE declined to discuss the issue of workshare within the context of ongoing Tranche 2 negotiations.
Any discussion on workshare distribution is compounded by the systems' area being allocated a large part of the development work. Some program insiders admit that systems-related work already has a bias toward BAE.
From an industrial position, BAE will be loath to relinquish work, while EADS will push hard to garner additional responsibilities for its German plants.
In parallel, the partner nations are also trying to pin down the exact configuration of Tranche 2 aircraft, and the provision of potential upgrades avenues for further enhancements.
As of late last week, all Typhoons had been temporarily grounded following a problem with the braking system on a German aircraft. This is being attributed to a single-component, rather than a system, failure. -
Those Fokkers won't last 5 mins.Originally posted by Viper52:Not true. We have at least 2 recorded purchases of air-launched Harpoons on a public list of US DoD contracts. Fokker PR pics show the yet-to-be-delivered (at the time when the pics were taken) MPAs carrying dummy Harpoons. There are other Harpoon-capable types, but I won't/can't say which types. (even though it does not need a genius to figure out).
Harpoons are very long missiles. The only fighter aircraft capable of handling that length is A4 and may be F5. These were never Harpoon certified.
What about F16? The air intake and the landing gear is in the way. -
Originally posted by touchstone_2000:Harpoons are very long missiles. The only fighter aircraft capable of handling that length is A4 and may be F5. These were never Harpoon certified.
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Singapore assured of French support in warplane deal
Article dated 3rd November 2003
Singapore gets French government support in joint on-board radar development and greater access to training areas in France if Rafale is chosen over two other aircraft...
Should Singapore go with the French aviation giant, Dassault Aviation, in opting for Rafale as the warplane to replace the SAF's aging A-4 Super Skyhawks, greater collaboration is expected in the pipeline. For one, a joint development of the Rafale's on-board radar - the advanced RBE-2 radar, is expected. This was reinforced by Marc Perrin de Brichambaut, the French Defence Ministry strategic affairs director, "It's true that if you get involved in the Rafale, the development of the new radar is to be done jointly."
Another plus factor for choosing the multi-role French fighter craft would grant "air space scarce" Singapore greater access to air force training areas in France.
Currently, MINDEF has short listed 3 fighter crafts from 3 respective contenders - F15T Strike Eagle from Boeing; Rafale from Dassault Aviation and Euro Typhoon from a consortium of European aircraft companies, in supplying sophisticated warplanes for the Republic's Air Force. If MINDEF does go with the Rafale deal, this will supplement its previous order of 6 stealth frigates from France's Direction des Constructions Navales International (DCN). The 110m-long frigates are being built both in France and in Singapore. They are expected to be commissioned here in Singapore in 2005.
The stealth warship is built with maximum security and firepower under its hood. It will be armed with guns, anti-aircraft and anti-ship missiles, making it self-contained. To add to its already "invincible" status, each frigate will have a naval helicopter on board for search and destroy missions of enemy submarines. According to Mr de Brichambaut, the frigates are equipped with the best equipment, "...you (Singapore) have tended to choose the best equipment on these frigates. Most of that equipment has not been integrated before on a project of this scale."
A spin-off from this defence arrangement is France benefiting from Singapore geo-political knowledge of the region. Singapore's awareness of regional developments in a broader context will as a consequence aid France it its counter-terrorism planning. - Patrick, G.
http://content.miw.com.sg/LifeStyle/MiwNews/ls_miwnews02_20031103.asp -
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-harp.htmlOriginally posted by touchstone_2000:What about F16? The air intake and the landing gear is in the way.
The Harpoon missile has been integrated on foreign F-16 aircraft and is presently being integrated on foreign F-15 aircraft.