Need for conscripted Special Forces personnel?
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I think its a very bad idea for SpecOps ppl to be conscripts due to a very simple fact, these people are not volunteers, therefore the motivation is not there. If there is no motivation, their attitude towards training will not be positive and may result in mental degeneration, causing accidents.
Look at the Navy SEALs or the elite SAS, whose ranks are filled with highly paid professionals. This helps both parties as it increases operational readiness and also prevents stupid accidents like what happened to 2SG Hu and many countless others from ever happening again.What do you guys think?
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its a good idea...Israel consripte its own SF The Sayeret Matkal..
but commandos are consider SF already..n they are consripted..
unless you are talking abt SOF?? -
Don't know about now, but i read about a survey conducted some time back in Israel that young men once they enter NS, are allowed to choose, before they do their bmt, the vocation they want.Originally posted by NathanG5:its a good idea...Israel consripte its own SF The Sayeret Matkal..
but commandos are consider SF already..n they are consripted..
unless you are talking abt SOF??
The most popular choice being a fighter pilot in the air force, followed by the special forces especially the naval commandos - definitely not what their dear jewish mums would want! Guess the special forces there have a long and celebrated tradition to inspire such gungho-ness among the male youths. -
its not surprising that most Israelis youth will want to be in the best..Originally posted by IAF:Don't know about now, but i read about a survey conducted some time back in Israel that young men once they enter NS, are allowed to choose, before they do their bmt, the vocation they want.
The most popular choice being a fighter pilot in the air force, followed by the special forces especially the naval commandos - definitely not what their dear jewish mums would want! Guess the special forces there have a long and celebrated tradition to inspire such gungho-ness among the male youths.
bravery of certain individual will be manifest in peoms or songs..
myth of invincibilities...n everybody will be conscripted..they will of cos choose the best..at least they still have a chance of survival in a elite unit when war come..
Israelis Youth will wear their uniform to parties..wedding or funerals..
soldiers are very respected in Israel..but that is the past now..
things are very different among the youth now..not as entusiastic as last time.. -
if our soldiers r not conscripted then how many r willing 2 volunteer?????
as it is our SAF is considered a 'civilian' armed forces
i wud volunteer but my many attempts in signing on failed due 2 pes status
sighz -
not much..for myself..i will volunteerr..with a violent objection from my parents of cos..Originally posted by 35MM Gunner:if our soldiers r not conscripted then how many r willing 2 volunteer?????
as it is our SAF is considered a 'civilian' armed forces 
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The fact is, in this day and age, the portion of singapore commandos consisting of conscripts cannot be counted as special forces in the mould of the current SAS or Green Berets. It seems their special function is essentially that of rangers, who are light infantrymen. As what NathanG5 said, the real unconventional spec operators are SOFOriginally posted by LazerLordz:I think its a very bad idea for SpecOps ppl to be conscripts due to a very simple fact, these people are not volunteers, therefore the motivation is not there. If there is no motivation, their attitude towards training will not be positive and may result in mental degeneration, causing accidents.
Look at the Navy SEALs or the elite SAS, whose ranks are filled with highly paid professionals. This helps both parties as it increases operational readiness and also prevents stupid accidents like what happened to 2SG Hu and many countless others from ever happening again.What do you guys think?
This is just my humble opinion...and by no means do i have any intention to belittle what these tough warriors do - for i do admire their warrior ethos and espirt de corp. They are truly SAF's finest -
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wats your Pes Status? n wats wrong?Originally posted by 35MM Gunner:if our soldiers r not conscripted then how many r willing 2 volunteer?????
as it is our SAF is considered a 'civilian' armed forces
i wud volunteer but my many attempts in signing on failed due 2 pes status
sighz -
C2L2
fractured ankle
i tot sign on as tech still got chance and i understand pes C personnel if ur regular still have 2 take ippt but they still rejected -
Actually 2SG Hu was a sniper. Snipers are not spec-ops people. Same case for infantry scouts and BRC.Originally posted by LazerLordz:prevents stupid accidents like what happened to 2SG Hu and many countless others from ever happening again.
In the States, rangers are part of USASOC, ie. US Army Special Operations Command. As such, they're part of spec-ops. But of course, there's a hierarchy and rangers look up to Green Berets and Delta Force as people above them. -
if im not wrong..maybe those wearing red can correct me..Originally posted by IAF:The fact is the portion of singapore commandos consisting of conscripts cannot be counted as special forces in the tradition of SAS or Green Berets. It seems their special function is essentially that of rangers, who are light infantrymen. As what NathanG5 said, the real unconventional spec operators are SOF
This is just my humble opinion...and by no means do i have any intention to belittle what these tough warriors do - for i do admire their warrior ethos and espirt de corp. They are truly SAF's finest
the role of a NSF Cdos n Regular Cdos is different..
if im not wrong..there the Commandos Regular Force,NSF commandos and SOF..
the NSF role will be just like the US Ranger..LRRP,Raiding, fighting inside the front..n mainly a elite light infantry(like the US Airborne during WW2)..para down on enemy objective..n make a mess of the place..
CRF role will be mainly Specialise Raiding..special ops like body snatching..?
SOF role will be CT ops..hostage rescue..blah blah blah..
even in a Guards unit..if im not wrong they have volunteer regular grp...which have the same role as Marine Force Recon.. -
u kena that during your NS?Originally posted by 35MM Gunner:C2L2
fractured ankle
i tot sign on as tech still got chance and i understand pes C personnel if ur regular still have 2 take ippt but they still rejected -
Rangers and Special Forces r like their Seals and Bud counterparts
from wat i understand if ur Special Forces ur most likely Ranger qualified but not neccessarily da other way round (of coz i may b wrong)
same for da Seals
they have 2 go thru BUD b4 they can go on 2 b a Seal -
few mths b4 enlistedOriginally posted by NathanG5:u kena that during your NS? -
That's true..don't forget that the ranger regiments are very regimented with their crewcuts and 'hooahs'. On the other hand, once a soldiers transforms into a delta or green beret, he crosses over into a grey world of cloak and dagger covet ops where they have almost total freedom to plan and execute an op as they see fit, such as growing beards, wear turbans and carry kalashnikovs to look like mujahideensOriginally posted by Icemoon:Actually 2SG Hu was a sniper. Snipers are not spec-ops people. Same case for infantry scouts and BRC.
In the States, rangers are part of USASOC, ie. US Army Special Operations Command. As such, they're part of spec-ops. But of course, there's a hierarchy and rangers look up to Green Berets and Delta Force as people above them. -
u can ask for an upgrade actually..Originally posted by 35MM Gunner:few mths b4 enlisted
go to CMPB..say u wana sign on..but you are Pes C...n u wish to upgrade..then they will refer u to the CMPB Med Centre in the DSTA building..they will check u out..after that its just wait..cos the medical board need time to review your case..n hopefully they upgrade u.. -
aite
will gif it a try -
Ranger or Bud is not the only way..but the most likely way into US Army Spec Op(green beret) or SEAL..Originally posted by 35MM Gunner:Rangers and Special Forces r like their Seals and Bud counterparts
from wat i understand if ur Special Forces ur most likely Ranger qualified but not neccessarily da other way round (of coz i may b wrong)
same for da Seals
they have 2 go thru BUD b4 they can go on 2 b a Seal
there some who go thru by the way of Combat Controllers..the easiest way in to special ops...
Combat Controllers can choose to go both way.. -
One of the more handy distinctions I have come across is the distinction made between Special Forces and Special Operating Forces by Robin Neillands. Neillands was in 45 Commando in the 1950's, and has written a number of books about Special Forces units since retiring.
In Neillands' definition, Special Forces covers units such as SEALs, Green Berets and the SAS and SBS. Their tasks include intelligence gathering, small scale raids, training indigenous resistance movements and counter-terrorist operations. Special Operating Forces, on the other hand, are large enough to handle conventional infantry warfare, and are more defined by a specific task, such as amphibious warfare for the US Marines, or airborne operations for the Parachute Regiment or our Commandos.
From experience, I cannot really agree with LaserLordz's theory. There were many members of my company who would have happily volunteered to be there, only to find out that life in the Commandos was not what they expected it to be - those were the ones who were the least motivated. On the other hand, there were others who were enlisted, went through the training and found that it grew on them - some of these became Best Trainee at the various phases of training. The leadership and environment provided by the officers and senior NCOs also had a marked effect. One of my OCs, when he first came aboard, addressed the company and said, "Despite being NSF, you are meant to be as professional as any regulars in the rest of the army. I will treat you as professionals and in turn I expect you to act like professionals.". This OC was in fact rotated to us from SOF simply to do his OC tour. Everybody kept their end of the bargain, and things ran fine with a small handful of exceptions.
One of these was with a fellow who came over from Infantry by his own request. He had some grandiose ideas that it would be a big gung-ho adventure, and when he found that the emphasis was instead on professionalism, he lost interest. What ended up happening was that he spent the rest of his six-year contract getting his arse kicked by all and sundry for his poor attitude, and left as soon as his contract was up. -
Double post.
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Thanx gendaken for enlightening. Btw, what is to be understood by professionalism in this context? Does it mean that the level of regimentation is just as high as other units?Originally posted by Gedanken:One of my OCs, when he first came aboard, addressed the company and said, "Despite being NSF, you are meant to be as professional as any regulars in the rest of the army. I will treat you as professionals and in turn I expect you to act like professionals.". This OC was in fact rotated to us from SOF simply to do his OC tour. Everybody kept their end of the bargain, and things ran fine with a small handful of exceptions.
One of these was with a fellow who came over from Infantry by his own request. He had some grandiose ideas that it would be a big gung-ho adventure, and when he found that the emphasis was instead on professionalism, he lost interest. -
No, our definition of professionalism was quite distinct from regimentation. By definition, regimentation is discipline imposed through a hierarchical structure. Because our structure is flatter than those of most units, our culture tends more to focus more upon the individual, that discipline was more self-imposed. Each of us was given more responsibility for our own performance - for most part we lived up to that responsibility, and the unit culture placed pressure on us to keep up with the rest. We do tend to be more self-driven on average, in terms of things like fitness and weapon maintenance.
Our perceived level of discipline is affected by two factors, namely the flatter organisational structure and our order of priorities. Within any operational company, the lowest rank is corporal, so there is much less difference in rank within the hierarchy. Also, our officers return to us once they are commissioned, so we serve our last year under platoon commanders who went through BMT with us. All of this leads to a much more casual environment amongst the ranks.
Our order of priorities also drives much of our conduct. While we pay little regard to the spit-and-polish aspects of military life, we do not muck about when it comes to making sure that we can get the job done. When preparing for exercises, we would go through 20 to 25 dry runs, taking out different elements of the company each time (for example, the whole demolition team may get “killed” and taken out of play) and executing all of the backup plans.
At the same time, when we switch off, we really switch off. We once had a company barbecue at Big Splash - at one point, the whole company lined up at the biggest slide and the CSM dispatched everybody down the slide like it was an airborne drop, so that we had three or four guys on one slide at a time. The lifeguard hit the panic button and called a halt to that immediately – spoilsport. If you have a unit whose raison d’etre is to cause disruption, what else can you expect?
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Israel is different. Israel has a long long history of being a nation of warriors always fighting and fighting for survival. The people therefore want to continue family traditions ... israeli's are much like the gurkas who also like to continue family traditions of soldiering.Originally posted by IAF:Don't know about now, but i read about a survey conducted some time back in Israel that young men once they enter NS, are allowed to choose, before they do their bmt, the vocation they want.
The most popular choice being a fighter pilot in the air force, followed by the special forces especially the naval commandos - definitely not what their dear jewish mums would want! Guess the special forces there have a long and celebrated tradition to inspire such gungho-ness among the male youths.
Having said that I feel we should setup a recruiting station in Nepal like the british to recruit gurkas. A foreign legion force made up of gurkas.
Why british so powerful? It's because whenever there is a conflict they always send in the gurkas first. You notice the iraq invasion they never send in their own nationals.
Unlike the british I feel we should offer gurka recruits an opportunity for citizenship in singapore after serving a number of years. Train, educate, promote and grant citrizen ship. With citizen ship comes better life than scratching for a living in the fields back home. Eventually families will be brought over to continue the tradition of soldiering here in singapore. This will in time solve the low birth rate and greying problem.
Think of it as foreign talent in the armed forces. This is better than trying to get other money grabbing greedy FT nationals to settle here. -
That's not a bad theory. However, bear in mind that most Ghurkas return to their families (direct and extended) in Nepal after completing their service. Their ties to the land are pretty strong, so I would not put too much stock in the attraction of an offered citizenship.