'White horse' classification for NSmen existed prior to 200
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ask anyone who has been through the army with a son of a minister in their platoon...Originally posted by cavsg:I'm quiet neutral in this debate. I take the position that like a person being trial for a crime, the accused(in this case the govt) should be treated as innocent until the prosecution can prove otherwise that the accused is guilty. So unless there is concrete prove that the govt is lying. I would have to accept their explaination as throughout my military life, I've never encounter a white horse or happen to know one.
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Knn..whats this shit?? who the hell is this Cedric Foo? he tryin to pian siao on us izit?
ive seen with my own eyes..at the Medical Centre..i peep at the monitor once..was goin to get some cough med...the guy next to me was from another company...so my name in the monitor will be next to his..i saw weird marking next to his name...next thing i know his number was up 1st..not mine..weird..n some old faggot usher him into the M.O room..
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I was from ITD during my Rec time, where they select cadets for OCS,my ITD instructors told us that WHs will get into OCS easily by just getting a average result, whereas the rest will have to get good result to be selected. At that time, he was speculating who will get into OCS from our platoon, he was of course would not be 100% sure of the rest since he is not aware of the results from Peer Appraisal & the Situational test, but quite sure the WH in our platoon will get it, and he was proven right.
WH has special WH chop on his medical record, where of course MO/orderlies will give that so called "indifferent" treament as the Foo said. -
Originally posted by the wuming78
You could ask Steve Chia to pose it by having talk with him thru this
mabbe u can post this question at speaker's corner? but singapore is not the only country with them. and searches using google failed to turn up anything. its baffling!
"Let's Discuss Singapore" forum in Yahoo a political discussion group or you could email your qns to him.
[email protected].
Btw he is the moderator of that group.
That is where I got the info abt SAF training deaths , from the horse mouth.Originally posted by the Viper52
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Sorry wuming78, but he can't use that as an excuse. Questions to Parliament are submitted and approved by the Speaker at least a week before the actual sitting. Neither Steve Chia nor any other MP can't just stand up and ask any ol' question that pops into their head there and then and watch the one trying to answer squirm. Our dear minister had at least 1 week to prepare for the question, yet he chose to give a half-arsed whitewash which every Singaporean and their dog know is not true, rather than sit down and try to give a rational believable answer to a very legitimate question
You r right on that & one could only has a maximum of three oral qns in one sitting & any f/up qn will either written or wait for the next sitting.
That's kind of suck isn't it? -
This got to be the best comical joke of 2003.
I rank LTA's self-declared Singapore's public transport as "world's best" as 2nd
Anyone can suggest a 3rd ?
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Unfortunately, this is Singapore and not UK or USA.Originally posted by cavsg:I'm quiet neutral in this debate. I take the position that like a person being trial for a crime, the accused(in this case the govt) should be treated as innocent until the prosecution can prove otherwise that the accused is guilty. So unless there is concrete prove that the govt is lying. I would have to accept their explaination as throughout my military life, I've never encounter a white horse or happen to know one.
The Singapore Legal System determine that
- you ARE Guilty until YOU prove yourself to be innocent. -
SM LKY assumption that in Singapore, anyone can get a CT Scan within 3 hours when needed - any time of the day or night.Originally posted by Gun:This got to be the best comical joke of 2003.
I rank LTA's self-declared Singapore's public transport as "world's best" as 2nd
Anyone can suggest a 3rd ?
What a joke that he can demand for such medical facilities when his own beloved is struck with an every day human problem ?
Somehow, SM LKY had forgotten the Government's concern of too much unnecessary high tech probing and testings that can only result in high medical costs. -
It probably explain how we can have two B.G from one super DNA Family in a population of 4.5 million.Originally posted by gary1910:I was from ITD during my Rec time, where they select cadets for OCS,my ITD instructors told us that WHs will get into OCS easily by just getting a average result, whereas the rest will have to get good result to be selected. At that time, he was speculating who will get into OCS from our platoon, he was of course would not be 100% sure of the rest since he is not aware of the results from Peer Appraisal & the Situational test, but quite sure the WH in our platoon will get it, and he was proven right.
WH has special WH chop on his medical record, where of course MO/orderlies will give that so called "indifferent" treament as the Foo said. -
i agree with wuming on the intent part.
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err..i think u r mistaken. i was answering Bear's question on the role of a Minister of State.Originally posted by gary1910:.
You could ask Steve Chia to pose it by having talk with him thru this
"Let's Discuss Singapore" forum in Yahoo a political discussion group or you could email your qns to him.
[email protected].
Btw he is the moderator of that group.
That is where I got the info abt SAF training deaths , from the horse mouth.
anyone? -
I think that this is one of those "wink wink nudge nudge" things in the SAF. Officially, WH are identified to their unit commanders so that they will not receive special treatment. That is probably written in some Top Secret memo buried in a filing cabinet on Bukit Gombak, so he is speaking the "truth". Unofficially, every unit commander knows that the reason why he is told who the WHs are is to give them special treatment, in violation of the official policy, but in accordance with the unofficial policy. In theory, if a unit commander is caught giving special treatment to the WHs identified to him, he should be punished. Of course, no one is enforcing this at all, quite the opposite.
COL Koh: CPT Tan! There is a white horse in your company, LCP Lee. You know that according to MINDEF directives you are not to give him special treatment. *wink wink* You know what to do. Don't cause trouble for the regiment, OK? *nudge nudge*
CPT Tan: Yes, sir! I will assign him to clean the toilets everyday. Why is your eye twitching so much, sir? Sir, I don't like you that much, please don't touch me.
COL Koh: CPT Tan! Are you purposely being stupid?
CPT Tan: No, sir! I'm sorry -- he will get extra at least once every two weeks in addition to toilet cleaning duty. We must avoid all appearance of impropriety.
COL Koh: &^#%! Go get your CSM to see me -- he will understand what to do better than you! Get out!
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Will WHs get into OCS easily by having extremely lousy result? Does that means a very large percentage of officers are WHs? Are WHs very capable because of their genes? Does that means in times of war WHs don't have to go to the front line because their life is very precious? How does one qualified to b a WHs?Originally posted by gary1910:I was from ITD during my Rec time, where they select cadets for OCS,my ITD instructors told us that WHs will get into OCS easily by just getting a average result, whereas the rest will have to get good result to be selected. At that time, he was speculating who will get into OCS from our platoon, he was of course would not be 100% sure of the rest since he is not aware of the results from Peer Appraisal & the Situational test, but quite sure the WH in our platoon will get it, and he was proven right.
WH has special WH chop on his medical record, where of course MO/orderlies will give that so called "indifferent" treament as the Foo said. -
The 'WH' label is to alert the Commanders on the ground of some special personalities that are not to be 'damaged' - much like the 'FRAGILE' sticker at the airport to identify such easily breakable goods.
There are two categories of WH.
The first is a normal 'WH' and the second is a 'WH-X'.
Most scions of wealthy families (reknown millionaires, industrialists, professionals, members of parliament) would very likely fall into this category.
While those that fall into the 'WH-X' group are the scions from the super wealthy families and the Cabinet Ministers.
The Unit Commanders will have to pay special attention, and take extra precautions, to ensure the safety of all 'WH' - with more extra-ordinary measures to prevent any mishaps falling on the 'WH-X'.
Any accidents or mishaps to these 'WH' can only result in complications and legal tangles for MINDEF and SAF to handle, with families that can easily afford the best legal help to seek redress for injuries to their scions.
Has anyone ever seen a Battalion Commander being present in the training of a Recruit's first Platoon Live Firing Training in the Field ?
This only happen when a 'WH-X' recruit is involved in such training, while under normal circumstances, most Recruits will only benefit from the safety supervision of a young Platoon Commander, with perhaps the Company 2 i/c being present at a Recruit's first Live Firing Training in the field. -
Originally posted by want to know:
i think there is a misconception here. if the WH is really lousy there is no way he can get into ocs. wat the others said here was perhaps he does not have to put in as much effort to get in there. and of course, in the first place, only a small number of singaporeans are WHs hence similarly a smaller percentage of them are in ocs.
Will WHs get into OCS easily by having [b]extremely lousy result? Does that means a very large percentage of officers are WHs? Are WHs very capable because of their genes? Does that means in times of war WHs don't have to go to the front line because their life is very precious? How does one qualified to b a WHs?[/b] -
Also 'cos WH, knowing full well they're WH and the high expectation of them, will not purposely slack and at least try to put in effort.
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man, do you actually believe what you just wrote?
btw, one called up his father after 1 day in BMT.. "daddy... very siong lah.. can take me out and post me somewhere or not? very siong lah"
i was area-cleaning that place when he made the phonecall on the public phone outside the bunk.. (why he was not doing area cleaning, i dunno)
guess what? he was escorted to the platoon office by the Course Commander the next day and the next thing we knew, he was posted somewhere else.. i heard he became someone's "personal assistant"
so, whatever Cedric Foo said, it's a vile lie...Originally posted by Icemoon:Also 'cos WH, knowing full well they're WH and the high expectation of them, will not purposely slack and at least try to put in effort. -
Originally posted by want to know:
No, not all WH will get into OCS, as long as he exhibit good attitude, at least average results, his probability of getting to OCS is higher than others.
Will WHs get into OCS easily by having [b]extremely lousy result? Does that means a very large percentage of officers are WHs? Are WHs very capable because of their genes? Does that means in times of war WHs don't have to go to the front line because their life is very precious? How does one qualified to b a WHs?[/b]
The SAF based on my instructor perception, will give better preference to WH and scholars(those who have outstanding results in the A level etc).
I was talking abt the 80s, so the current practice might be different, but I doubt it, especially on scholars. One qn, Have anyone even seen a male President's scholars not a OCS cadet? -
Actually my reply was about those WH going OCS. No point putting them in OCS, if they're like your example.Originally posted by the Bear:man, do you actually believe what you just wrote? -
What if those WH want to go to OCS but he has very lousy result. He perform very badly in everythings. May be he can used his family wealth and political connection to go to OCS and be an officer. May be he can pay the SAF a really huge amount of money to be an officers or may be try to pull strings with the most powerful man in Singapore.Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually my reply was about those WH going OCS. No point putting them in OCS, if they're like your example. -
Something to add, WHs ususally get into to OCS if they r average, those "fuxk stud" will get into the extremely senang vocation for their 2.5years in the army.
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WH treatment need not necessary take the form of guaranteed postings to 'senang' vocations or OCS (with average capability).
Take the example of the son of singapore's longest reigning CDF. When he enlisted in the late 80s, his father was SAF's big boss. During his BMT, he was made 'best recruit'. The BMT POP parade was of course attended by his dad, can just imagine the tension and anxiety among the camp staff then. Subsequently he underwent training to be a signal officer (just like his father), and later winning the sword of honor. During his time as a cadet at stagmont camp, he and his cohort of cadets ate at the cookhouse in the officer and senior specialists section. They did not have to queue up for food. Instead these cadets (who would've been treated as lower than low-life scum in other military academies elsewhere) were served by cooks at their tables...However, after his passing out, he was posted to 3 signal, the formation's most 'on' unit. Don't think it would've reflected well on the warrior image of the CDF if his son was posted to 1 signal (most switchoff sig unit).
Nothing personal against that chap, for he couldn't help who he was, nor his father. It was just something that couldn't be helped. I'm sure the CO of that bmt camp and school of signals were under not-too-subtle pressure from their higher ups to 'take note' of that super WH in their midst. It would have taken a great man of integrity and courage to treat that CDF's son as a normal recruit -
from my pool of frens who are ministers/officials' sons, nephews, high-flyers in sch, scholars.........
this is Foo of sh!t........... -
Originally posted by IAF:
Do you really think that he was posted to OCS & later became a Signal officer has nothing to do with any "divine" help?
........ Subsequently he underwent training to be a signal officer (just like his father), and later winning the sword of honor........However, after his passing out, he was posted to 3 signal, the formation's most 'on' unit. Don't think it would've reflected well on the warrior image of the CDF if his son was posted to 1 signal (most switchoff sig unit).
This is maybe what's the father wished for like father like son. -
could be... but the son is a nice dude
Originally posted by gary1910:Do you really think that he was posted to OCS & later became a Signal officer has nothing to do with any "divine" help?
This is maybe what's the father wished for. -
Thats the story of Singapore in recent years hasn't it? We do things with good intentions but somehow or other, more often than not due to the Ruling Party's propensity for exacting swift and often quite arbitary justice, things are turned around so everything turns out fine and dandy for those "in the loop"Originally posted by wuming78:i think time was not a factor here. it was deciding wat to tell.
in any case, wat he said MIGHT be true. (or he may actually think its being practiced - ivory tower as Bear mentioned. )
but we all noe how things become different from wat it is supposed to be when it gets practiced. one example is the recent trg incident. regulations disallowed certain actions. ppl on the ground did it anyway.
so in tt sense, he MAY be telling the truth, u noe. MAYBE the saf really does not recognise white horses in writing.
but well, the saf is stil an organisation run by humans, some of whom r afraid of offending the wrong persons and in so doing jeopardising their careers. so they may start to treat the white horses as white horses even tho they shudnt. and its not hard to noe who r the white horses even if they arent labelled as such.
jus my proposition. as a person "on the grd", i thought wat he said ludicrous. but well, i tot we shud try to see the other side of things too.
As Bear said, Ivory Tower Syndrome. At it's best, or worst depending on your point of view.
I suppose my question still stands then; Is he an idiot? Or does he think we are?
I worry for Singapore