RSN frigates - Close up shots of scale mockup
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I tend to agree here, I think those 3 x 8s are chaff launcher, and from the looks on the photos they look trainable to me. I doubt its the Crotale VT-1, too small in size relative to the gun IMO. But then, who knows?Originally posted by tripwire:can be chaff launcher but also can be short range SAM like cortale...
of course... since ASTER is now the ships primary SAM... it makes little sense to add an older generation shorter range SAM...
so.. i think it should be chaff launchers...
i think the ASTER is too big to be put on those 3*8 lauchers ... they probably will launch from the 32 VL cells...
what i find disagreedable... is the harpoon...
i mean.. there are such thingy called a VL harpoon... why bother putting 8 harpoon amidship when you could use VL harpoon from those 32 cell launcher?
The 2 x 4s amidships should be MM40 Exocets (Block 3?), as pointed out by cavsg. Different articles in Israeli and French newspapers reported a customer which demanded 'utmost secrecy' ordered the MM40s for 6 frigates last year.
France's "secret" missile sale with S'pore: report
S'pore refuses comment on 'missile purchase'
Fairyland, the radar on the foremast is a fixed set, fixed on the superstructure in all 4 directions, looks to me quite similar to the ones found on the USN Aegis system (though not similar in capabilities?)Originally posted by Fairyland:Seems the pics are missing the most interesting thing to me and I trust others as well - radar?
How do you re-load the 'chaff launchers'? Seems the close-in defense system is too 'soft' for such a big ship?
Notice an electo-optic sensor/tracker behind the launcher above the hanger and one on top of wheelhouse.......
Hard to believe there's no CIWS of any sorts.....maybe the 'chaff launcher' may not be all there is to it?
What happened to the VT-1 missile technology that Singapore has gotten hold of?
I'm sorry I didn't take pics of the radar, however they're included in the video I took. If I can find a www host you'll be able to see it.
The CIWS will come from the ASTER, they have anti-missile capabilities as well.
More ASTER Info via MBDA
8 missiles per VL! Thats what, 256 missiles!!
Spencer99, apologies for missing the bow as well. Not too well versed at taking walkarounds of ships. Aircraft are more my thingOriginally posted by spencer99:I would like to retract my statement on the bow being flushed. The photos published here did not show the bow at all.
But somehow I seems to recall that the bow is flushed based on a picture released by Mindef. But I may be wrong or confused with the MCV or the new LST.
The video I took shows that you're right. The bow is flush, so you might be right as to the rear doors being used to tow a towed sonar. However I do think that the bulk of the ASW work will be done by the on board helos.
In the pic of the overhead shots of the MM40 launchers, there seem to be doors other than the ones for the venting of the missile exhausts. ASW torpedoes perhaps?
Joe Black, I noticed that when I was looking at the pics the night I took them. The thought that the space could be used for another system struck me immediately, and the ST NRWS struck me immediately. Or maybe SINBAD with its 2 Mistral SAMs?Originally posted by Joe Black:One interesting thing is that I notice on the heli platform (drawing instead of actual carved out thingy) is that it may have a helicopter recovery system. Secondly, there are amble of space on each side of the hanger. Obviously it was fenced up. I wonder what other systems RSN have in mind?
Perhaps something like the Rafael Typhoon 25mm stabilized gun mount or some other CIWS would be a good idea???
Finally, anyone know what is the type/calibre of the main gun? -
Crotale VT-1 missile on a Omani Qahir-class Corvette. Note the size of the launcher compared to the ship.
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Viper52, good photos, thank you for sharing these shots....Originally posted by Viper52:Joe Black, I noticed that when I was looking at the pics the night I took them. The thought that the space could be used for another system struck me immediately, and the ST NRWS struck me immediately. Or maybe SINBAD with its 2 Mistral SAMs?
Finally, anyone know what is the type/calibre of the main gun?
I think the main gun is the 76mm Super Rapid OTO Melara (62 calibre) with a stealth cupola.
See it in action with the Norwegian Skjold Class
www.aleniadifesa.finmeccanica.it/ A4_co.htm
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I had initially thought it was a navalised version of the Rafael Overhead Weapon System found on the Army's M113 Ultras, but when I dropped by the ST Booth in the Exhibition Hall, I saw it was actually a ST design, the Naval Remote Weapon Station (NRWS). And the example they had in the hall came with 4 dummy Igla-SAM launchers.
Maybe they r licenced produced by ST, from the external, it look almost identical to Rafael CIWS.[/quote] -
Is this not an odd and dangerous configuration of having the missile tubes directly facing each other ?Originally posted by Viper52:
What IF an electrical or human error should occur, when one missile from each side is fired near simultaneously ?
Would it not be wiser for each group of missiles be slightly staggered and prevent an accident that the present configuration from ever happening ? -
This configuration seen on the Deltas is present in most if not all USN surface combatants. So it should be relatively safe.
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>>8 missiles per VL! Thats what, 256 missiles<<
I really wonder how can it be 8 missiles per VL cell? The T45 AirDefence Destroyer is onli carry 48 Aster PAAM , pls check ur claim on 256 missiles. -
Viper52
1st - Great Pics, thanks! Looking forward to the video too.
2nd - I think VL systems not quite suited to CIWS......so I guess there's a chance for those launchers to be multi purpose. Especially when you see the EO sensors so close by.
3rd - Fixed radar!!! Wow....this means the Deltas will be Aegis capable. Garang!
4th - My wild guess is Aster to be area defense weapon so maybe should be Aster-30??? Especially if you tie in with the radar.
That means CIWS is missing. Maybe they want to go with the Typhoon bolt-on like the Fearless class.
Once again, great pics! Thanks. -
4th - My wild guess is Aster to be area defense weapon so maybe should be Aster-30??? Especially if you tie in with the radar.
Mindef had already confirm that the missile will be Aster ( Base on Mr Peter Ho's speech ) but they havent unveil which version is choosen.That means CIWS is missing. Maybe they want to go with the Typhoon bolt-on like the Fearless class.
Those 3 small units behind the VLS and on top of the hangar could be CIWS. Perhaps they are RAM or even Cortale systems doing the job of CIWS. If u notice , those 3 units are in a tri-position where any attack from left-right-centre-front-back can be deal with.
Once again, great pics! Thanks.
I doubt the claim that they may be chaff/flare dispenser , because i dun see a need for 3 unit of that. On the fact that this ship is stealth , i believe four units of decoy launchers ( two missile decoy , 2 TTs decoys ) hiden inside the ship is enough to lurk missiles and torpedoes away. -
I would like to draw your attention on the picture ofthe two "CIWS" in front of the bridge.
If this is to scale, you will note that the height of the steath panel is almost as high as the launcher. This means that the launcher have to "elevate" to fire over the panel. This make sense for decoys or flares and they will create a cloud over at ship and then slowly drift downwards.
But for most CIWS or Point defence weapons the missles then to be launched at zero or low elevation directly at the target. You can see from most pics of live-firing. So I still think it is not CIWS. But I agree that having three seperate trainable units seems a overkill. VL Systems are another story.
Of course the model could be not to scale. The panels could be "controlled" and move aside automatically, or the launcher can fire over the panels.
I have to agree that the position atop the hangar seems the ideal location for a CIWS type weapon the Phalanx on the FFG-7 and the Croatale (spelling) on the Saudi/Qatar frigate is mounted atop the hangar as well. -
Maybe those launchers are meant for ASW rockets?Originally posted by spencer99:I would like to draw your attention on the picture ofthe two "CIWS" in front of the bridge.
If this is to scale, you will note that the height of the steath panel is almost as high as the launcher. This means that the launcher have to "elevate" to fire over the panel. This make sense for decoys or flares and they will create a cloud over at ship and then slowly drift downwards.
But for most CIWS or Point defence weapons the missles then to be launched at zero or low elevation directly at the target. You can see from most pics of live-firing. So I still think it is not CIWS. But I agree that having three seperate trainable units seems a overkill. VL Systems are another story.
Of course the model could be not to scale. The panels could be "controlled" and move aside automatically, or the launcher can fire over the panels.
I have to agree that the position atop the hangar seems the ideal location for a CIWS type weapon the Phalanx on the FFG-7 and the Croatale (spelling) on the Saudi/Qatar frigate is mounted atop the hangar as well.
This is a good time for the RSN - I hope to see them put these ships to good use. Great chance for RSN to be leader and advance concepts in littorial warfare.
My dream is that one day they can be a part of the USN CBG task force. -
How effective are those rockets?Originally posted by Fairyland:Maybe those launchers are meant for ASW rockets?
This is a good time for the RSN - I hope to see them put these ships to good use. Great chance for RSN to be leader and advance concepts in littorial warfare.
My dream is that one day they can be a part of the USN CBG task force. -
ASW rockets sounds so eastern bloc. In Asia Pac I think mostly use by the PLAN. You can always see footages of them ripple-firing their ASW rockets, their Styx and their Land-based SA-2s in their "Missle-firing Exercises".Originally posted by foxtrout8:How effective are those rockets?
The western equivalent is the ASROC which I think is mainly being obseleted. -
Assuming the sidewall stealthing those launchers are either not to scale or moveable......
Another wild idea for those launcher is CRV-7s. I remember reading about laser guided versions of these rockets. Ties in well with the EO turrets.
With so many versions of warhead, it's possible to add a beach head fire support role not that it's relevant today.
ASW rockets maybe effective if only as a deterrent especially in shallow waters and if the threat has penetrated the line of defense??? -
I believe that could be the SatCom or similar stuff. Couldn't be a Search Radar like the British Type 45 or the Horizon Frigates.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:It looks very sleek. IMHO, it can be cleaner. Note the spherical radome that is shielded from the horizon point of view. Is it going to jacked up when in use?
BTW, someone asked about the radar, it is NOT AEGIS, but the Thales HERAKLES
http://www.thales-naval.com/activities/radar-sys/surveillance/products/heracles.htm
Herakles is designed to be the main radar on high-value vessels. It meets the operational requirements of air-defence ships while optimising acquisition and life cycle costs :
*it performs simultaneously all the functions involved in the establishment of the 3D air and 2D surface picture, missile detection, and weapon deployment,
* it can be associated to all types of surface-to-air missiles, with active or semi-active homing heads,
* it is endowed with exceptional reliability and extremely high operational availability, both necessary for its role as main radar.
HERAKLES benefits from the unique experience of Thales in the field naval multifunction radars. -
On the radar..... Yah it's not Aegis. I think there is a discussion in some forum somewhere with rather specific details about its performance. Something to do with the scan rates, volume etc and number of hits per target or something like that.Originally posted by Joe Black:I believe that could be the SatCom or similar stuff. Couldn't be a Search Radar like the British Type 45 or the Horizon Frigates.
BTW, someone asked about the radar, it is NOT AEGIS, but the Thales HERAKLES
http://www.thales-naval.com/activities/radar-sys/surveillance/products/heracles.htm
Some sceptism posted if I remember correctly.
Don't think the picture is correct as it will require rotation of the aperture to have 360 coverage but Viper52 doesn't think the radar mast is rotating?
That means you need at least 3 radiating panels.
Probably the standard for the RAN to match when they decide to get their Air Defense Destroyer to replace the Adams class.
The Round Radome between the engine exhaust is Satcom in another frequency band. Don't know why they don't use the arrangement of the Royal Navy where they have two on the sides? -
No such thing as VL Harpoon.....Originally posted by tripwire:can be chaff launcher but also can be short range SAM like cortale...
of course... since ASTER is now the ships primary SAM... it makes little sense to add an older generation shorter range SAM...
so.. i think it should be chaff launchers...
i think the ASTER is too big to be put on those 3*8 lauchers ... they probably will launch from the 32 VL cells...
what i find disagreedable... is the harpoon...
i mean.. there are such thingy called a VL harpoon... why bother putting 8 harpoon amidship when you could use VL harpoon from those 32 cell launcher?
the front part of the ship would most probably be packed to the brim with ASTER and Torps.
the space saved amidship would be useful in making available another 32 VL cells... specifically for VL harpoon or even future ESSM.
oh... by the way... how many ships are there in the world navy... that have 32 VL cells? most i found is either 8 or 16... hardly 32 VL cells. -
RIm-116A RAM. Possible?
EMPAR. Possible? -
My bad! Its 8 ready-to-fire missiles per cell of 8 VLs. Got too excited.Originally posted by foxtrout8:I really wonder how can it be 8 missiles per VL cell? The T45 AirDefence Destroyer is onli carry 48 Aster PAAM , pls check ur claim on 256 missiles.
Told you I'm not a Navy person!
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You know, after all the discussions here I'll admit I'm not too sure myself whether the set can rotate. I'll expedite a search for a host for the video (~10 MB) so I can post it here and let those more well-versed than me on naval matters to analyse.Originally posted by Fairyland:Don't think the picture is correct as it will require rotation of the aperture to have 360 coverage but Viper52 doesn't think the radar mast is rotating? -
I mentioned earlier about the discussion on a forum on Herakles radar. Please see:
http://pub14.ezboard.com/fwarandpoliticsfrm54.showMessage?topicID=320.topic -
ASW rockets are not used by eastern bloc countries only. Sweden and Finland uses them. In Asia Pac, apart from PLAN, RMN also has them.Originally posted by spencer99:ASW rockets sounds so eastern bloc. In Asia Pac I think mostly use by the PLAN. You can always see footages of them ripple-firing their ASW rockets, their Styx and their Land-based SA-2s in their "Missle-firing Exercises".
The western equivalent is the ASROC which I think is mainly being obseleted.
It's better than using depth charges, which is now really obsolete. -
How do you define as "better"? Is it because ASW rockets can be fired some few hundred meters away whereas you practically have to run a course and lay the depth charges at an intervals?Originally posted by observe:ASW rockets are not used by eastern bloc countries only. Sweden and Finland uses them. In Asia Pac, apart from PLAN, RMN also has them.
It's better than using depth charges, which is now really obsolete.
BTW, ASW rockets and depth charges, I believe, are great at shallow waters but at deeper waters, Torpedoes are still the best ASW weapons.