SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY
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hmmm... looks more like m113 hull... resembles the m109 tho... heh...
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Damn I was right! I mentioned quite some time back that I suspected this to be 39cal since I saw this back in 2001, and I was hoping that the in serivce version would be 52 cal instead. Sign......
Wonder why they didn't put one though, even the M109s have been upgraded to 47cal (as performed by the Dutch company RDM).
The chassis does seems like the M109 though, and I will have to disagree with some of you guys. After comparing the road wheels, the overall profile/shape, I still think it is the M109, albeit an improved version, with the most obvious change at the frontal part of the chassis. I don't suppose United Defense will have any problem altering the design at the front, maybe to accomodate an improved engine???
But I am still baffled as to why they don't just buy an SPH off the shelf. I would have shortlisted the PzH2000, the AS90 52cal, and even the Korean K9.
The only reason I could find is that of reducing the crew size, high degree of automation, and a requirement to maintain weight below 30 tons, so that our Bionix bridgelayers can accomodate em, although the Leguan and M60 AVLBs would have no problems whatsoever.
Give me a 52cal SPH anytime!!!! -
I beg to differ,look at the running track of both vehicles below.
The Primus should have some track return rollers which are cover becos the track is not slacking . The Paladin does not has any track return rollers therefore the track is slacking against the road wheels.
If they are the Paladin, if u modified the track system & replaced with different engine & transmission, u may as well design a new one becos the work will be too great.
External features could easily be modify w/o much engineering work but not the track & suspension system,engine & transmission of a AFV.
CHARGE!!!
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If you looked at my earlier post, it shows that they did evaluate other arty systems, but while their firepower was acceptable, other specifications did not satisfy us... specifically, lightweight mobility (what does that mean? strategic mobility as opposed to tactical mobility?)
BTW, the Leguan ain't used for this purpose...
F*^% THE LEGUANS...
(that coming from a leguan tech) -
I don't quite get what you mean...
Both vehicles have a idler roller at the back of the track...is that what you are trying to say?
I am quite a bit rusty...but AFAIK, the tracks are not of equal length, one side has 1 track count more than the other, for eg. left may have 72, the right 73. This is mainly for turning the vehicle so obviously one side would slack a little bit more than the other. As I mentioned, I first saw this vehicle back in 2001, on that occasion, there was a Caucasian engineer attached to the ST technicians/crew during their testing (we were using the same training shed, the one nearest the old RATC compound at Sungei Gedong camp), which reinforced my belief this is an improved M109 chassis...
Well, hope some "old bird" can confirm this...Originally posted by gary1910:
I beg to differ,look at the running track of both vehicles below.
The Primus should have some track return rollers which are cover becos the track is not slacking . The Paladin does not has any track return rollers therefore the track is slacking.
If they are the Paladin, if u modified the track system, u may as well design a new one becos the work will be too great.
[b]CHARGE!!!
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Your post just happens to be posted while I was writing mine....
BTW, whats wrong with the Leguan..Originally posted by YourFather:If you looked at my earlier post, it shows that they did evaluate other arty systems, but while their firepower was acceptable, other specifications did not satisfy us... specifically, lightweight mobility (what does that mean? strategic mobility as opposed to tactical mobility?)
BTW, the Leguan ain't used for this purpose...
F*^% THE LEGUANS... (that coming from a leguan tech) -
BTW, did anybody notice that the Primus doesn't have any optical sight/targeting "device" that most SPHs have on their turret? Anyone care to enlighten us poor souls?
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if u look at the 2nd primus at the back of the pic, it shows an exhaust at the front with smoke coming out. this is missing from the m 109. engine exhaust or smoke gen system? -
Look at this M60A3 with the three small little track return rollers just above the bigger road wheel. With this the track will not slacken down to the road wheels.Originally posted by warspite:I don't quite get what you mean...
Both vehicles have a idler roller at the back of the track...is that what you are trying to say?
I am quite a bit rusty...but AFAIK, the tracks are not of equal length, one side has 1 track count more than the other, for eg. left may have 72, the right 73. This is mainly for turning the vehicle so obviously one side would slack a little bit more than the other. As I mentioned, I first saw this vehicle back in 2001, on that occasion, there was a Caucasian engineer attached to the ST technicians/crew during their testing (we were using the same training shed, the one nearest the old RATC compound at Sungei Gedong camp), which reinforced my belief this is an improved M109 chassis...
Well, hope some "old bird" can confirm this...
For AFV w/o track return roller , the track will be very close to the big road wheel becos the track return function is being done by the road wheel , therefore the track slacken down to the road wheels.
These r the only two different design track system in all the AFV.
Got it?
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Originally posted by cavsg:
It is the exhaust , saw it smoking black smoke in the news.
if u look at the 2nd primus at the back of the pic, it shows an exhaust at the front with smoke coming out. this is missing from the m 109. engine exhaust or smoke gen system?[/b]
CHARGE!!! -
It's a modular Bionix chassis.
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Rather than optical targeting device, I believe Primus uses ring gyro, and advanced data-link. Watch the movie clip and you will gain some understanding.... The Primus vehicles are controlled by a command vehicle which calculates the firing solutions based on information received from the arty spotters (man or UAVs). Coordinations are fed to the command vehicle which are then directed to each of the Primus vehicles. In some sense, this is network centric way of fighting.Originally posted by warspite:BTW, did anybody notice that the Primus doesn't have any optical sight/targeting "device" that most SPHs have on their turret? Anyone care to enlighten us poor souls? -
The chassis uses the same automotive components of the Bionix IFV (ie. road wheels, drive sprocket, gears, etc). The new chassis is lengthen with seven road wheels, height is increase as well, to cater for the large gun and ammo storage. Armour is probably a thin single layer, like most other SPH.
The M109 hull is longer and wider - any body to confirm?
It would be even more interesting to see the new light tank. Seven road wheels, lower hull and a 120mm turret?? -
haha interesting...i dint know they put it out on mindef.....
I saw it on the ST:K's site today before i saw it here...
yea i've been away.Interesting that it's official. -
haha interesting...i dint know they put it out on mindef.....
I saw it on the ST:K's site today before i saw it here...
yea i've been away.Interesting that it's official. -
seems like most of you guys have taken a close look at the pics and made several analytical observations.
For those of you who guessed that the chasis is based on the M109, know this: you are right
For those who guessed Bionix or even M113, take a closer look again
As for the gun, it is a locally developed one. Anyone care to make a guess?
Trust me. Those who have been involved in the development of the system will know. -
I would like to retract that the Primus come wif track return rollers , I think it does not as shown below(the only picture that clearly show the track on the road wheel):Originally posted by 1roundaway:seems like most of you guys have taken a close look at the pics and made several analytical observations.
For those of you who guessed that the chasis is based on the M109, know this: you are right
For those who guessed Bionix or even M113, take a closer look again
But M109 has a different engine & transmission has compared wif the Primus, it shared the same transmission as the Bionix .(based on the spec given).
Dun tell me they get Paladin chassis with engine & transmission which are customised to SAF needs by having similar engine & transmission as the Bionix?
CHARGE!!! -
I already seen them , the track system are different, M109 does not come with track return rollers , Bionix does & so does the Primus.
(based on the pictures I have posted above)
Hi, sorry to burst your balloon but which version of Primus have you seen?
As far as I know, Primus - number plate 55000 MID and onwards - have no track return rollers. I'm no engineer but I think the level of slack depends on the amount of track tension (too loose and it'll throw the track) and also the height of the ider and sprocket wheel relative to the road wheels.
The chassis was made by UDLP in the States. It's a hybrid between a slimmed down M109 and the Bradley IFV. That's why if you're planning to kit bash a 1/35 scale model of Primus using the Italeri M-109 kit, it won't look the same.
Primus doesn't need the panaramic roof sight as it has a laser ring gyro - in the old days arty gunners used to rely on a single gryo mounted on a Land Rover called PADS - Position and Azimuth Determining System, a device about the size of a small refrigerator.
But the smaller size of current day laser ring gyros and their affordability makes it feasible to install them on an SP gun.
I'm impressed with the machine. I personally think the Project A***** team has done a wonderful job.
Confirm to ram? -
Someone has posted quite a while back that when the SPH is in service, the current towed guns be placed in storage. However I feel that it lacks the rate of fire as well as the range of our current towed guns. Probably to complement our current howitzers?
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Hi, sorry to burst your balloon but which version of Primus have you seen?
You're right & thanks for the clarification,actually I have already retracted the statement after I have taken a closer look at all the pictures from Mindef.(see above)
As far as I know, Primus - number plate 55000 MID and onwards - have no track return rollers. I'm no engineer but I think the level of slack depends on the amount of track tension (too loose and it'll throw the track) and also the height of the ider and sprocket wheel relative to the road wheels.
The chassis was made by UDLP in the States. It's a hybrid between a slimmed down M109 and the Bradley IFV. That's why if you're planning to kit bash a 1/35 scale model of Primus using the Italeri M-109 kit, it won't look the same.
Primus doesn't need the panaramic roof sight as it has a laser ring gyro - in the old days arty gunners used to rely on a single gryo mounted on a Land Rover called PADS - Position and Azimuth Determining System, a device about the size of a small refrigerator.
But the smaller size of current day laser ring gyros and their affordability makes it feasible to install them on an SP gun.
I'm impressed with the machine. I personally think the Project A***** team has done a wonderful job.
Confirm to ram?
So it is not exactly M109s chassis but greatly modified UDLP one.
Then I think ST & Mindef has no right to claim that it is locally produced SPH, afterall the chassis are from UDIP.
CHARGE!!! -
If the SPH is for ABG, then maybe the 120 SP mortar from the armoured Bn will retired instead of the towed guns.Originally posted by eurofighter:Someone has posted quite a while back that when the SPH is in service, the current towed guns be placed in storage. However I feel that it lacks the rate of fire as well as the range of our current towed guns. Probably to complement our current howitzers?
CHARGE!!! -
Isn't 30km too short range for a SP howitzer ? . Anyway , what is the maximum range for the american SP howitzer ? . Lastly , does the SP howitzer use normal artillery rounds that our fh2000 uses or do they need special rounds ?
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i dun suppose it is amphibious like our m113 or BX...
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Originally posted by gary1910:
nowadays, most factories get their parts from some foreign suppliers rite, when the finished product is completed its considered locally produced rite? your hifi,walkman maybe made in japan but the case may have been produced in china and shipped to japan
Then I think ST & Mindef has no right to claim that it is locally produced SPH, afterall the chassis are from UDIP.
[b]CHARGE!!!
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But how could they claimed that they designed the SPH if the chassis, more than 50% of the whole project was done by others & the rest most probably with help from the angmo.Originally posted by cavsg:nowadays, most factories get their parts from some foreign suppliers rite, when the finished product is completed its considered locally produced rite? your hifi,walkman maybe made in japan but the case may have been produced in china and shipped to japan
Below are the quote from CNA report:SINGAPORE : Imagine an artillery cannon capable of moving on its own, instead of having to be towed around.
CHARGE!!!
Well, that is exactly what the Singapore Armed Forces wanted.
So, the Defence Science and Technology Agency and ST Kinetics hit the drawing board and designed a self-propelled Howitzer.