SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY
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S'porean high-tech artillery gun is unveiled
Designed to suit local conditions, Mindef says the self-propelled gun is SAF's 'most technologically complex product'
By David Boey
THE Singapore Armed Forces yesterday unveiled the latest addition to its arsenal - a 155mm artillery gun that moves like a tank.
Called the Singapore Self-Propelled Howitzer 1 or Primus, the locally developed guns will give the army's combined arms divisions more firepower, speed and accuracy.
This has been achieved by combining the armour and mobility of a tracked vehicle, like a tank, with the firepower of a 155mm gun, the largest calibre artillery piece in the SAF.
The decision to develop the Primus was made after a survey of some of the world's best self-propelled guns from the United States, Britain, Japan and Russia found them either too heavy or too wide for local terrain, said the Defence Ministry.
Chief Artillery Officer Lim Teck Huat said: 'We made a market survey in 1995 and 1996 and considered the operational guns around the world. Well, they had a lot of firepower, were highly mobile and very survivable but they were also very heavy, mostly around 50 tonnes, and we needed something lighter.'
The SAF needed the Primus to weigh less than 30 tonnes and be no wider than 3m, for it to move across bridges and through vegetation here.
By April 2000, the first working prototype was rolled out, using a vehicle chassis adapted from the US Army's Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle and M109 self-propelled gun.
After another three years of testing, the guns were unveiled by Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean yesterday.
The result, Mindef says, is the creation of 'arguably the lightest and most responsive self-propelled howitzer in its class'.
Before the Primus, the SAF's stable of 155mm guns - the FH-88 and FH-2000 - usually had to be towed by trucks.
Towed guns require more time to get into action and at least eight gunners to operate, compared to the Primus which only needs a crew of four and is ready to fire in less than a minute.
Beneath its tough armour-plated exterior is a host of sophisticated on-board computers that control navigation and automate the handling of ammunition.
Altogether, the Primus is the SAF's 'most technologically complex product designed to date', added Mindef.
At its commissioning yesterday, there were no formal military parades. Instead, the ceremony took place out in the field at Kranji Camp, where six guns swung into action in a demonstration that showcased its ability to 'hide, shoot and scoot'.
The first artillery unit to receive these guns is the 21st Battalion, Singapore Artillery.
The unit started using them early this year and is gearing up for a battalion live-firing exercise code-named Thunder Warrior. This will take place in New Zealand early next year.
After seeing the guns in action, Rear Admiral (NS) Teo said: 'It's an example of the cooperation between the Defence Science and Technology Agency, the SAF and Singapore Technologies Kinetics that we're able to develop something which can fit our unique needs.' -
hmm...not quite original eh?Originally posted by IAF:By April 2000, the first working prototype was rolled out, using a vehicle chassis adapted from the US Army's Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle and M109 self-propelled gun. -
"I personally think the Project A***** team has done a wonderful job."
ha ha ha... nice try, the PMT is not called Project A*****... try again and try harder...
Armour is probably a thin single layer
sorry buddy, can't tell you the exact thickness of the armour. But suffice to say that it is sufficient to protect the crew against small arms and RPG to some extent. There's no ERA though, but we don't need that...
M109 has a different engine & transmission has compared wif the Primus, it shared the same transmission as the Bionix
Dun tell me they get Paladin chassis with engine & transmission which are customised to SAF needs
yes, the M109 has a different engine and transmission, but the chasis is still the same... and yes, Primus shares the same transmission as Bionix.
Someone has posted quite a while back that when the SPH is in service, the current towed guns be placed in storage.
well, go tell this 'someone' that the SP is not meant to replace the FH88 and FH2000... so no, the current towed guns will not be placed in storage.
So it is not exactly M109s chassis but greatly modified UDLP one.
Then I think ST & Mindef has no right to claim that it is locally produced SPH, afterall the chassis are from UDIP.
trust me it is exactly the M109 chasis and it has not been greatly modified. The SPH is considered locally developed. if you look at the package as a whole instead of just the chasis, you'll realise that the gun is local-developed and the integration was done by our engineers. of course there are some stuff that are COTs e.g. the on-board computers etc. why build every single part from scratch when some of the stuff is readily available?
Isn't 30km too short range for a SP howitzer ? . Anyway , what is the maximum range for the american SP howitzer ?
The SPH isn't going to be firing from our soil... 30km is very decent considering that this is a 155/39. Besides, the range for the M109 is 30km (with HE RAP and M203 propellant) and 22km unassisted.
But how could they claimed that they designed the SPH if the chassis, more than 50% of the whole project was done by others & the rest most probably with help from the angmo.
if you claim that more than 50% of the whole project was done by others, then you obviously do not know how this project has managed... look, you need to see the system as a whole. we only bought the chasis and engines from UDLP. The gun and various integration works were all locally done. More than 50% of the whole project was local...
trust me... -
Think they should add a 40mm AGL, beside the MG. Give it a bit more "bite" when needed.
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Hmmm, lemme try, its actually Project C*****N, right?
Also, what's this about replacing our mortars with the Primus? Arty and mortars aren't interchangeable!
Also, I find certain bits about the article interesting. The Type 72 Arty of Japan was evaluated. But if I'm not wrong, Japan has a strict ban on weapons exports.
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Ahh....nice new toys...Its a nice complement to the current towed artillery that we have.
I remember the old 21 SA when I was in Kranji....they used to practice(during the mortar conversion course) around the field area near the SOC ground. This was back in 1996...the pics that you're seeing, the SP guns are from Bravo battery (Gun 1, 4, and 6, I think). My platoon mates and I got to see them 'action front' their SP mortar (with camo net and all)...impressive...only took them 2 minutes + - to get into firing position, and about 1 minute + - to stow away and prepare to displace. This was based on the old system of having a runner plant the firing poles, lay the tele-J wire and all. I imagine it would be the same timing for these SP guns considering that they don't have to plant poles anymore...lol
On another occasion, I had the rare chance of seeing 20 SA practice in Area D (rare, since they hardly step out of their Yio Chu Kang training area). Towed gun really takes awhile to deploy?!! About nearly 10 minutes in total (including camo net)...and 5 minutes + - to prepare to displace...
The basis for keeping towed artillery is meant more for infantry support than for armour support. That's why 21 SA has been kept all these years even when 20 SA (120 towed mortar) was disbanded...for armour support operations. I think the current 120 SP mortars will still be kept though...in active and reserve armour battalions, since it would provide good short-range (abt 6 km max) indirect fire support. The real long range firepower would then be these new babies, since they are faster to displace than towed FH 88 or FH 2000. -
I thought there is #something# in the pipeline to change the SP mortars - ie. Broncos carrying Super Rapid Advanced Mortar Systems (SRAMS)? Thus, I don't believe Primuses are built to replace the SP Mortars. What I would also dream to see is Bionix and Terrex mounted with AMOS (amoured Mortar System).Originally posted by YourFather:Hmmm, lemme try, its actually Project C*****N, right?
Also, what's this about replacing our mortars with the Primus? Arty and mortars aren't interchangeable!
Also, I find certain bits about the article interesting. The Type 72 Arty of Japan was evaluated. But if I'm not wrong, Japan has a strict ban on weapons exports.
As for the Japanese SP - aren't it just a "copy" of Paladin or a modified version. Now we truely have a family of "Paladin"s and sons of Paladin
hee hee -
so.... how many of those M109 chasis did we bought?
or more correctly.... how many SSPH-1 PRIMUS are we gonna get? -
about 110.Originally posted by tripwire:so.... how many of those M109 chasis did we bought?
or more correctly.... how many SSPH-1 PRIMUS are we gonna get?
See
http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/singapore_armstable.htm
10/8/1998 110 U2 Self-Propelled Howitzers DCS >$50 million -
Ah SPH, the Sarong Party Horse. Well hung eh?
Crony jokes aside, I think the SPH-1 has a future as a direct line of sight fire support weapon. I'm thinking in terms of bring down the house around guerillas/insurgents that wall themselves in.
50km/hr is decent speed. I bet its small enough to fit on the streets in urban areas. -
Hmmm, lemme try, its actually Project C*****N, right?
well, if i say 'wrong', then i'm lying, but if i say 'right', i may get into trouble. so, silence is the best policy. all i'll say is, i think we are on the same frequency... -
I don't believe Primuses are built to replace the SP Mortars.
how many SSPH-1 PRIMUS are we gonna get?
I bet its small enough to fit on the streets in urban areas.
i think people should move away from the mentality that the Primus was designed to replace the SP Mortars or other arty pieces (e.g. FH88 or 2000). Primus was built with one purpose in mind and it has got nothing to do with SP mortars, FH88/2000 or firing from urban areas.
How many? well, i don't think it is appropriate to discuss numbers/quantity here, but it's definitely not 110. -
The new SAF Self Propelled Artillery looks similar to all other Self-Propelled Artillery with the standard 'BULKY' turret as seen in similar units manufactured by the other countries.
The bulky turret is to accomodate the huge gun, its recoil system, auto-loader, on-board ammo.
Above picture is that of the German PzH 2000 with a 155/L52 calibre gun with a range of 30km firing standard NATO rounds.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/pzh2000.htm
In all likelihood, the locally built SP Artillery piece will have a back door access for rapid resupply of ammo.
Picture shows a US M109 Paladin SP Artillery
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m109a6.htm
Interesting point to note will be the follow-on Logistics Supply Vehicle to carry the large load of ammo that will be needed to re-supply the voracious appetite of these SP Artillery units. (See Pic below)
PR China has its own Self-Propelled Artillery, and the picture below shows a Supply Vehicle transferring ammo to the SP Unit via an Auto-Link into the SP Unit.
PR China – PLZ-45 SP Artillery with Auto-Loader Supply Vehicle
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/plz-45.htm -
Hello 1roundaway,
Hrmmm..........Are we playing Wheel of Fortune? Let's see, may I have a vowel, please?
If u speak to the chappies who welded and painted the thing, they call it the A*****.
This is an open forum. No point playing word games.
Should I solve the puzzle? Or should I "carry on" (try saying that REAL fast) *nudge nudge*
r u going Thunder Warrior?
Moving on, the side profile of the Chinese Type 89 120mm anti-tank gun seems so similar to the Primus. I woke up this morning, looked at my Trumpeter 1/35 scale model of the Type 89 on my shelf and thought they look similarly angular.
This kit is quite nice, btw, it's got interior detail, engine plus transmission. Anyone made it too? -
If one consider the covers of the Drive Sprockets, seen on the front inner sides, as well as the access hatch at the front of these new Self-Propelled Artillery chasis, it resemble either the M113 or the BIONIX.
With ST Kinetics having invested quite a sum in its failed bid to develop a low profile BIONIX, so as to allow it to enter a Heavy Lift Transport Plane, this 'Low Profile BIONIX' will come in nicely to accomodate the design requirements of the Self-Propelled Artillery.Originally posted by cavsg: -
I wonder what's that lock attached to the chasis in the front for? Most of the other SPH does not have that. Is the tube that heavy?
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Now I am really confused
, 1roundaway said :yes, the M109 has a different engine and transmission, but the chasis is still the same... and yes, Primus shares the same transmission as Bionix.
and Dave/CJ said :The SAF needed the Primus to weigh less than 30 tonnes and be no wider than 3m, for it to move across bridges and through vegetation here.
So what is what? anyone else?
By April 2000, the first working prototype was rolled out, using a vehicle chassis adapted from the US Army's Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicle and M109 self-propelled gun.
I just checked thru the Spec of M109A6, it has a width of 3.149m, length of 9.804m & Primus has a width of 3m and length of 10.21m.
Since the engine & transmission is completely different & maybe even the track & suspension system as well since some of you guys think it look like the Bionix.
Therefore I would said that the Primus was based on chassis of a new design rather the original M109s but both are designed by UPLD.
CHARGE!!!
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That's a 'travel lock' used to hold the barrel in place during long distance travel, to prevent the barrel swaying 'side to side'.Originally posted by clarencebk:I wonder what's that lock attached to the chasis in the front for? Most of the other SPH does not have that. Is the tube that heavy?
This is common feature in all SP Units, as can be seen in the sketch of the US M-109 Paladin on the following site:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m109a6.htm
Also on the German PzH2000, with the 'travel lock' closer to the hull turret:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/pzh2000.htm
And the Russian 2 S-3M 152mm Self-Propelled Artillery
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/2s3.htm
China's Type 89 122mm Self-Propelled Artillery:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/type-89-sph.htm -
Originally posted by gary1910:
Try the following ST Kinetics site to get all the specs to answer your questions concerning this new Self-Propelled Artillery for the SAF.
Now I am really confused , 1roundaway said :
So what is what? anyone else?
I just checked thru the Spec of M109A6, it has a width of 3.149m, length of 9.804m & Primus has a width of 3m and length of 10.21m.
Since the engine & transmission is completely different & maybe even the track & suspension system as well since some of you guys think it look like the Bionix.
Therefore I would said that the Primus was based on chassis of a new design rather the original M109s but both are designed by UPLD.
[b]CHARGE!!!
[/b]
http://www.stengg.com/land/downloads/Primus%20Brochure%20PDF.pdf -
Saw the video on the mindef website.
The figure for the 3 round burst is a bit reserved....at 3 rds/20sec.
Timed the 3 round burst on the video, it was more like 12~13sec. -
Ok, you have the SPH, the advanced data link, then 'rumors' with the Baz. So what's next?
MLRS I tot we have that already.......
SM 1 replacement??? -
Don't think we have MLRS...at least no mention of it in public domain. If we had it, i'm sure people would have spotted it. As most of us know, the raytheon MLRS was in consideration years ago but kinda dropped off the radar screen, perhaps too politically sensitive until malaysia's purchase of the astro. While devastating i think it is not as practical as a SPH cos' of the expensive rockets. (of course, there are always less expensive options like the south african valkiri 127mm or even the katushas)Originally posted by Fairyland:Ok, you have the SPH, the advanced data link, then 'rumors' with the Baz. So what's next?
MLRS I tot we have that already.......
SM 1 replacement???
As for the SM1...yeah, we could use a light tank replacement. Perhaps that's the next big thing coming up.. -
maybe in 2004/5? NDP should be at padang again. time to display all those SAF hardware. New tank? bioxnix and primus
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i don't think so.....this chap need at least 10mths of training to operate it.......Originally posted by cavsg:maybe in 2004/5? NDP should be at padang again. time to display all those SAF hardware. New tank? bioxnix and primus -
err, advanced data link? What specifically are you referring to? For which service?Originally posted by Fairyland:Ok, you have the SPH, the advanced data link, then 'rumors' with the Baz. So what's next?
MLRS I tot we have that already.......
SM 1 replacement???
