SAF COMMISSIONS LOCALLY-BUILT SELF-PROPELLED ARTILLERY
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No, it's the TU160-SK variant.Originally posted by Fairyland:This reminds me of another Area 51 thingy on Pulse Wave Jet Engines which is supposedly flying somewhere over the States. Now Brahmos ramjet is old compared to this if true!
And it's not a spaceplane, just rigged up to deliver a space orbiter. -
Correction.Originally posted by Laplace:The fact is that United Defense Technologies has placed the M8 in its product catalogues and as Fairyland has pointed out, UD is actively promoting it at international arms and technology trade fairs. This can only mean that the M8 has already completed all necessary evaluation and experimental procedures/stages and only needs the foreign customer to start production lines rolling.
US Army does not want any part of the M8 AGS, at least not around 2 years ago. They scrapped the idea much longer ago.
United defense, can, if they get their jollies by doing so, create a tank similar to C&C's Mammoth tank.
THey can promote it till hell freezes over, but where's the customer?
And i already knew that at the time of Armored Cav, M8 was at a prototype stage already, meaning to say in a pinch, they could have deployed already.
As it is, the XVIII Airborne could have used it. -
The M8 Buford was fully developed and tested, approved for series production and type classified (hence M8 rather than XM8 ). The US Army field manuals for the M8 and light armor tactics had even been written and distributed to units in preparation for deployment. Then it was cancelled at the very last second to fund the war in Bosnia. Utterly retarded! Pouring all that expensive R&D effort straight down the toilet and leaving their airborne forces with no tank after the retirement of the Sheridan.
UD is ready to make the M8 at any time. All the production lines are ready, though currently disassembled and in storage. They tried to sell it to Thailand, apparently. It is a very, very nice light tank, and we should consider it as a replacement for the AMX13SM1. After working with UD on the Primus chassis, shouldn't DSTA be able to arrange something? It shouldn't take much to make the M8 suitable for local requirements as I understand them. -
ST is already developing a light tank. This was mentioned years back in the Straits Times, Finance section, after the launch of the Bionix. The light tank, like the Primus will use the same automotive components. (Does the Bionix use the same\similar components as the M8???)
The Primus chassis can be used to develop in mobile SAM, in my view.Originally posted by dkhoo:The M8 Buford was fully developed and tested, approved for series production and type classified (hence M8 rather than XM8 ). The US Army field manuals for the M8 and light armor tactics had even been written and distributed to units in preparation for deployment. Then it was cancelled at the very last second to fund the war in Bosnia. Utterly retarded! Pouring all that expensive R&D effort straight down the toilet and leaving their airborne forces with no tank after the retirement of the Sheridan.
UD is ready to make the M8 at any time. All the production lines are ready, though currently disassembled and in storage. They tried to sell it to Thailand, apparently. It is a very, very nice light tank, and we should consider it as a replacement for the AMX13SM1. After working with UD on the Primus chassis, shouldn't DSTA be able to arrange something? It shouldn't take much to make the M8 suitable for local requirements as I understand them. -
The Primus and the Bionix both have the same transmission as the M8 Buford (GD HMPT-500EC). The Primus has the same engine as the M8 Buford (Detroit Diesel 6V-921A 550hp) and the Bionix has a similar, lower horsepower version (Detroit Diesel 6V-92TA 475hp). The suspension for the Bionix and M8 Buford are both hydropneumatic strut systems, and are the running gear in general are very similar. In fact, I have long suspected that the Bionix was developed with assistance from UD based on experience with the M8, especially since the 25mm autocannon is the same Bushmaster in the M2 Bradley, another UD vehicle.
Knowing MINDEF, they will want the light tank to have the same engine and/or transmission as well, to make battlefield repairs and logistics easier. So, I would not be surprised if we got a little bit of help from UD again for the light tank, or if we even adopt a modified M8 Buford. Heck, the M8 is narrower than the "magic" 3m width that MINDEF seems to want all our armored vehicles to conform to, and only 25 tons with maximum armor. -
We already have a tank of some sort. Saw it at AOH 2002, but didnt really notice it.Originally posted by bcoy:ST is already developing a light tank. This was mentioned years back in the Straits Times, Finance section, after the launch of the Bionix. The light tank, like the Primus will use the same automotive components. (Does the Bionix use the same\similar components as the M8???)
The Primus chassis can be used to develop in mobile SAM, in my view.
Bionix using same components as M8? Unlikely, to say the least.
The Primus chassis can be used to develop any thing. IFV, SAM, SPAAG, heck even a CP.
Just look at all the variants of M113. -
As others have pointed out - there are similar automotive components used. AOH? the AMX13 and AMX10 - 90mm? old news.Originally posted by Johnston:We already have a tank of some sort. Saw it at AOH 2002, but didnt really notice it.
Bionix using same components as M8? Unlikely, to say the least.
The Primus chassis can be used to develop any thing. IFV, SAM, SPAAG, heck even a CP.
Just look at all the variants of M113. -
AMX10P from what I gather is a failure out of water........Originally posted by bcoy:As others have pointed out - there are similar automotive components used. AOH? the AMX13 and AMX10 - 90mm? old news.
Engine tends to overheat and loose power
Funny though...... the way they (AMX10P) came about. Any inputs here? Don't seem to be heading in any direction. Are they still around though?
If not wrong, ST don't own the design to Primus chassis. Can't see it going anywhere as far as SAF is concern.
Whatever the future light tank maybe, it makes sense to share the same drive train found in Ultra and Bionix which makes M8 a serious contender though I'm not impressed with the gun turret design.
Ruag 120mm seems better. -
Well, you are right on the problems for AMX-10P.
BTW, they are still around, somewhere in the west of Singapore....
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Quite a few clear photos of the PRIMUS in the December 2003 edition of the PIONEER magazine.
The following webpage shows the unit operating it, as well as details of the PRIMUS already released, with one photo in the print edition not shown on the web page.
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/cyberpioneer/setweapon.html
Interesting 3min 50 sec video of the PRIMUS is available on this web site:
http://www.mindef.gov.sg/weapons/sph/multimedia.asp -
There will be a total of 54 Primus each forming three 18 SP gun regiments, currently the first will be part of the independent armoured brigade. The other two which is being formed wil be with the new mechanised armour division.
The Primus chasis is based on the Paladin and the Bradley.
The AMX13S1 replacement will be a Bionix with a 120 smoothbore gun with autoloading capability ( Yes it is the M8 turret, the technology transferred from UD ) -
You are releasing info that are still not available in open domain I think.....Originally posted by damienthedevil:There will be a total of 54 Primus each forming three 18 SP gun regiments, currently the first will be part of the independent armoured brigade. ..............
The Primus chasis is based on the Paladin and the Bradley.
The AMX13S1 replacement will be a Bionix with a 120 smoothbore gun with autoloading capability ( Yes it is the M8 turret, the technology transferred from UD )
"damienthedevil" you could edit your , as I have already edited mine.
CHARGE!!!
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For the AMX13-SM1 replacement, if I remember correctly, the turret can only carry 8 rounds (that's for the 105mm) and once expended......crew has to climb out to re-load?Originally posted by damienthedevil:There will be a total of 54 Primus each forming three 18 SP gun regiments, currently the first will be part of the independent armoured brigade. The other two which is being formed wil be with the new mechanised armour division.
The Primus chasis is based on the Paladin and the Bradley.
The AMX13S1 replacement will be a Bionix with a 120 smoothbore gun with autoloading capability ( Yes it is the M8 turret, the technology transferred from UD )
Sorry wrong gun! More info on the XM8 here:
http://popularmechanics.com/science/military/2001/10/airborne_armor/print.phtml
Seems the autoloader (derived from a naval gun mount!) is the best feature - separated from crew with bulkhead carrying 21rounds!!!
Gun has to return to zero elevation to be re-loaded.
What is the slew rate of the turret? All electric drive? Tank commander position will be lower and he will not be able to gain any advantage by sticking his head out anymore........so the battle management system will give him the tactical picture? -
I hope they have also added a hunter-killer capability, plus a good active defensive suite and reactive armour to the chassis.
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Any1 here know the effective range of the smoothbore 120mm L50 gun?
In gulf war 1, the western tank havng range 3-4 km , destroy most T-72s at that range becos the T-72s gun range is only slightly above 2 km.
If our new light tank with 120mm gun is true, then I think delay of the whole project was due to purchase of PT-91s by MY.
The project started with 105mm gun then later reworked the whole concept with 120mm gun.
CHARGE!!! -
Originally posted by gary1910:
Also need a good Fire Control System and Optics to actually "touch" another tank 3-4 km away. The M1 's FCS is much better that the T-72s'. That is why the T72s were all slaughtered!
Any1 here know the effective range of the smoothbore 120mm L50 gun?
In gulf war 1, the western tank havng range 3-4 km , destroy most T-72s at that range becos the T-72s gun range is only slightly above 2 km.
If our new light tank with 120mm gun is true, then I think delay of the whole project was due to purchase of PT-91s by MY.
The project started with 105mm gun then later reworked the whole concept with 120mm gun.
[b]CHARGE!!!
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Most of the fighting may be done in jungles and urban areas after all. So the range of the gun will not be really a true advantage.
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True, it depend on the terrain, but advantage none the less.Originally posted by eurofighter:Most of the fighting may be done in jungles and urban areas after all. So the range of the gun will not be really a true advantage.
For example , give longer range fire support etc. But since it is a low recoil gun, I am afraid the range might be lower than other 120mm gun, that is why I asked.
One thing abt the L50, it could use all the standard Nato rounds, and I heard it capability should be somewhere between L44 to L55. No sure what it means.
CHARGE!!! -
Our new tank needs to be stealthy, compatable with the rest of our forces, have enough protection to survive most infantry AT fire, highly mobile, and pack enough firepower to destroy MBTs from the front. Maybe mounting ATGMS on it is not such a bad idea.
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damienthedevil, I think that was over the line...what you have mentioned is still all classified...please don't answer gary1910's query...Originally posted by damienthedevil:There will be a total of 54 Primus each forming three 18 SP gun regiments, currently the first will be part of the independent armoured brigade. The other two which is being formed wil be with the new mechanised armour division.
The Primus chasis is based on the Paladin and the Bradley.
The AMX13S1 replacement will be a Bionix with a 120 smoothbore gun with autoloading capability ( Yes it is the M8 turret, the technology transferred from UD )
Mods, I think it would be safer delete all mentioned. -
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Nah dun worry about, he hasn't said anything that isn't on public domain, and the light tank thingie... it appears to be pure speculation on his part, abbet presented in a factual tone...
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Certainly hope we wont be disappointed by the light tank but dont think we will be using the bionix hull though. I think it is still too small.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Nah dun worry about, he hasn't said anything that isn't on public domain, and the light tank thingie... it appears to be pure speculation on his part, abbet presented in a factual tone... -
I think it's too big. A light tank wun need to have all the internal space that the Bionix has for carrying troops, could cut that and lower the profile by a lot. It won't hurt to make this tank stealthy (ST did this with the Terrax) and run on band tracks though... since it has to be under 30 tons.Originally posted by rancour5:Certainly hope we wont be disappointed by the light tank but dont think we will be using the bionix hull though. I think it is still too small. -
The thing is the troop area is very small, if you have taken the Bx outfield before, the space is even more cramped than the ultra. I doubt even if you take away the troop area. There will be sufficlent space to put the ammo and the 120mm turret.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:I think it's too big. A light tank wun need to have all the internal space that the Bionix has for carrying troops, could cut that and lower the profile by a lot. It won't hurt to make this tank stealthy (ST did this with the Terrax) and run on band tracks though... since it has to be under 30 tons.