The deaths : Saf should change its welfare rules
-
I think it is sad that after you become a man (serving National Service) you still have to depend on your parents to complain on your behalf.Originally posted by HENG@:agreed.
my 2IC(only a useless young LTA, aren't they all?) is a piece of junk who can't do any of his own work n pushes everything to me, make me stay late n such. I just stay, do once, and then next day he gets hit with a whammy of complaints from my parents because i am not even supposed to stay late on med grounds. Then my CSM(a nice but fiery lady), will screw him over.
Now he dun dare make me stay late anymore. -
not all apparently... ppl who complain thruout their ns hardly ever growz up 2 b a man. they can call themselvez "man" physically but mentally, they're all softiez...Originally posted by spencer99:I think it is sad that after you become a man (serving National Service) you still have to depend on your parents to complain on your behalf.
-
Refering back to the original topic: Doesn't schools have OOs? (Orientation Officers) Isn't that a channel to look after trainees wel-being?
-
OOs are for recruits only if im not wrong.Originally posted by octega:Refering back to the original topic: Doesn't schools have OOs? (Orientation Officers) Isn't that a channel to look after trainees wel-being?
other than tt, there are other channels to seek regress. -
i met my fair share of officers..some are superb being..some are just plain P.I.A(pain in the ass)..
my 1st PC from my unit is one of the superb being..fair,funny.heavy smoker n nobody can out talk him...when we 1st got into the unit..we were quit unhappy with the place..n alot of us request posting to 4SIR..but were deny..so my PC came down to appease us..he give us a choice..if we can out talk him n convince him that by sending us to 4SIR is the better idea..he will help us the best he can..in the end none of us able to out talk him...
i once saw him argue with my O.C about our welfare..n he slam the door when ask to get out...attitude eh..lolz
-
I'm wondering if you've been through NS? I agree that operational readiness can't be achieved by splashing water on them but a measured degree of restraint should be followed too. Quoting from what you mentioned, clearly the instructors with all their experiences should be well aware of what they can and cannot do to the trainees and therefore it is clear that the instructors had way too much testoterone pumped into their heads at that moment of folly.Originally posted by Ler83:so what about the death?? When in army they always say must strike a balance between SAFETY and OPERATIONAL READINESS.
i guess by "splashing water on the POW course trainees", (as the original lesson plan states) basic endurance and self-discipline cannot even be achieved, let alone OPERATIONAL READINESS.
yes my condolences go out to those who unfortunately died during training while serving their 2 1/2 years...but what is "NS" without accidents occurring??
no offence to the public but i do pity those instructors involved..their level of experience should be high and rich enough to successfully conduct such high risks trainings..however it was jus inevitable that such unfortunate incident happened, and it caused them their jobs. Thousands had passed out from the course alive before.
SO...WELFARE OR NOT? SAFE OR NOT? RELISTIC TRAINING THEN??? YOU DECIDE
Most of the other guys in here agreed that tough and realistic training should continue, but extensive safety measures should be in place during such trainings and IT SHOULD BE FOLLOWED by the instructors. I agree that NS will definitely have its fair share of fatalities due to the nature of work, but then again, accidents which resulted from the deviation of agreed and safety guidelines shouldn't be the case.
And as you said, thousands have passed without incidents, but if these unsafe practices are to go unrectified, how will you feel if you are the one drinking water through your nose? Or in the future, your son??
-
oh no... i have a definite sense of deja vu...
-
not effective. b4 that i've been talking to them thru proper channels, like interviews and all that. They didn't grasp the seriousness of the situation until we submitted a complaint to mindef.Originally posted by wuming78:OOs are for recruits only if im not wrong.
other than tt, there are other channels to seek regress. -
That, was their decision to complaint. I didn't ask them to. As for u, u must be one of those people who let people trample all over u thinking that you're a "man".Originally posted by spencer99:I think it is sad that after you become a man (serving National Service) you still have to depend on your parents to complain on your behalf. -
let's keep to the original discussion. trading insults does not add value to it.
-
Originally posted by YourFather:I personally have not seen serious cases of power abuse. However, I must point out that within the system, there is serious potential for power abuse which can go by undetected. Let me give you an example :
I believe that you guys know that malingering and disobeying orders from superiors are chargeable offences. So is lying to an officer. (WTF, everything is a chargeable offence in the army, so goes the joke among my friends) The thing is, it is all up to the officer whether he want to charge you or not, even for very small things. Malingering, how would one define it? How much laziness would define as malingering? Disobeying orders. Forgeting to carry out a small order would also be "disobeying orders".
Thats y ppl say ' we outside all by right, saf all by left' haha
Few months ago, SAF just had a AHM donation exercise. We were all given a target of 21 dollars to raise. ("Strongly encouraged to donate", so were the words said. cannot force, because they scared people complain in papers, which happened) We were not allowed to request donations from the public, but from family and friends. Basically, just want money come out of our own pockets la. In the end, most HAM JI, come out 21 dollars. I refused, and came out with around $3. My officer was a good officer, chose to overlook this case. But in my friends coys, they were pressed, and they knew very well that if they didn't get 21 dollars, will have extra duty la, arrow sure increase. This kind of things, can you tell me its not an abuse of power? Sure, they wont punish you explicitly for not raising the required amount, but they will get you in other ways.