RSN's 'problem'?
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What is LALEE UAVOriginally posted by foxtrout8:* Singapore plan to field the LALEE uav for Naval stand off surveillence. No equivilant in the region.[/i]
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I think there are some new information in the straits times published during the trial that Courageous actually cross the bow of ANL and that ANL turned and ram into Courageous. This is quite irrelevant to having powerful waterjets. If a big truck next to and at the back of a posche on the expressway suddenly turn, how can you expect the posche to accelerate away!!! IMHO, ANL and the parent company has plenty to answer.Originally posted by Fairyland:For the smaller Fearless PVs with such powerful waterjets........I don't understand and therefore not so forgiving.......
RSN has plenty to answer for. IMHO they better go back to basics and start again with plenty more hands on with boats from the sailing clubs AND NOT SIMULATORS PLEASE!
All these Star Wars have become a liability........
Driving a car on a well lit expressway is different from driving a car on an unlit road (for those who has driven overseas, you should know what I mean) and very different from driving in the open desert(try driving from LA to Las Vegas). I think it is even MORE different from driving a ship in the middle of the sea at night. The amount of information that the human eyes can see is vastly different and vastly less, so I think if we do not understand, lets do the RSN chaps some courtesy and not critise BLINDLY.
And I hope they spend more time training to fight wars than sailing in the yatch club
I don't need them to win SEA game medals, I need them to kill the enemy and rape their families so that mine will not be harmed. -
LALEE will look something like this HERMES 1500 which already been purchased by SAF.So LALEE is a modified HERMES 1500 with AEW in mind.Bulky and make a good target thoughOriginally posted by Blue Dolphin:What is LALEE UAV 
On the RMN subsurface capabilities....well apart from the 2 SCORPENE SSK we also already received the AGOSTA 70B (armed with SSM SM39 EXOCET).if any of you guys ever been to Damai Laut resort (opp Lumut NB) you'll noticed the 2 Dutch SSK (brought there in 2001) are operational......sometimes there's one....sometimes there's none there......at times both are there.In short...the SSK are use by RMN.
Other than that rumours has it RMN PASKAL SOF operate Italian swallow water subs capable of carrying 16 commandos + armed with 2 Torpedo tubes.These subs are designed for shallow water (read straits etc) ops unlike SSK.PASKAL also got SDV MK IV and Subskimmer (eventhough not sub...still they provide subsurface capabilities).The new SOF centre in Mersing got 6 bay for mini subs......why the heck they bulit such bay if RMN do have any????
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AGOSTA 70B SSK
67.6M
1725 TONNE DIVED
8 OFFICERS,51 RATINGS
4 533MM TT AND SM 39 EXOCET
ZWAARDVIS SSK
66.92M
2620 TONNE DIVED
8 OFFICERS, 58 RATINGS
6 533MM TT
* According to the manufacturer the are leased to RMN
The SSK at Lumut NB.
Same SSK at Lumut NB
533MM Torpedo inside one of the SSK -
No...the RSN ships had not crossed the bow.They would have if the the ANL ship had stayed on course however The the guy in charge of the ANL ship did not see it that way.So he followed the rules of the sea and turned to starboard(right side)Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:I think there are some new information in the straits times published during the trial that Courageous actually cross the bow of ANL and that ANL turned and ram into Courageous. This is quite irrelevant to having powerful waterjets. If a big truck next to and at the back of a posche on the expressway suddenly turn, how can you expect the posche to accelerate away!!! IMHO, ANL and the parent company has plenty to answer.
Driving a car on a well lit expressway is different from driving a car on an unlit road (for those who has driven overseas, you should know what I mean) and very different from driving in the open desert(try driving from LA to Las Vegas). I think it is even MORE different from driving a ship in the middle of the sea at night. The amount of information that the human eyes can see is vastly different and vastly less, so I think if we do not understand, lets do the RSN chaps some courtesy and not critise BLINDLY.
And I hope they spend more time training to fight wars than sailing in the yatch club I don't need them to win SEA game medals, I need them to kill the enemy and rape their families so that mine will not be harmed. -
LALEE will look something like this HERMES 1500 which already been purchased by SAF.So LALEE is a modified HERMES 1500 with AEW in mind.Bulky and make a good target though
As for the LALEE, it has a large LR radar. I believe it will operate something like a modern MPA or Awacs(all of them propeller type for long endurance) , except it is unmanned. Therefore it survivability is as good as any long range LR survelliance system in the world, far away from any threats, and if neccessary with fighters escort.On the RMN subsurface capabilities....well apart from the 2 SCORPENE SSK we also already received the AGOSTA 70B (armed with SSM SM39 EXOCET).if any of you guys ever been to Damai Laut resort (opp Lumut NB) you'll noticed the 2 Dutch SSK (brought there in 2001) are operational......sometimes there's one....sometimes there's none there......at times both are there.In short...the SSK are use by RMN.
If I am not wrong , the two old Dutch subs were only meant for training, and the lease was actually cancelled after the annoucement of the purchase of the Scorpene. Are you sure they are still with RMN?
CHARGE!!!
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Last time somebody went up there for a holiday (the resort) in September 03.....both SSK were there.....the next day....only one remained.
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LALEE is supposed to be the replacement for our aging AWACS aircraft. If completed, it will be the world's first unmanned battle management UAV. If we are very lucky, it will have some of the capabilities of the American JSTARS in addition to the AWACS.
The HERMES 1500 is unlikely to be LALEE, since it is far too small to carry or power the kind of radar that LALEE will use. Currently, it seems that LALEE will be about the size of a 737 and operate at 60000 feet. The HERMES 1500 is probably a lower level asset meant for ground surveillance.
But then, with the kind of secrecy that shrouds the LALEE project, who knows? -
According to this website, the dutch new submarine was never signed & the two old dutch subs for lease to RMN for training was not signed as well, therefore RMN never operated the two old Zwaardvis class , let alone operational in RMN. Please check your facts!!!Originally posted by HARIMAU:Last time somebody went up there for a holiday (the resort) in September 03.....both SSK were there.....the next day....only one remained.
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_zwaardvis2.htm
Below is another link for the history of MY submarines deal, the deal suppose to have old subs for training as well as brand new modern subs for operation, as you know RMN has chosen the French deal.
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/export/export_malaysia.htm#Is%20RDM%20loosing%20all%20its%20possible%20clients
CHARGE!!! -
LALEE is not the Hermes 1500 and Hermes 1500 is not with the SAF.Originally posted by dkhoo:LALEE is supposed to be the replacement for our aging AWACS aircraft. If completed, it will be the world's first unmanned battle management UAV. If we are very lucky, it will have some of the capabilities of the American JSTARS in addition to the AWACS.
The HERMES 1500 is unlikely to be LALEE, since it is far too small to carry or power the kind of radar that LALEE will use. Currently, it seems that LALEE will be about the size of a 737 and operate at 60000 feet. The HERMES 1500 is probably a lower level asset meant for ground surveillance.
But then, with the kind of secrecy that shrouds the LALEE project, who knows?
LALEE is a work in progress.......last public domain I'm aware of is that it will be one of Burt Rutan's innovative designs
http://www.scaled.com/
LALEE will be carrying among many other things, a 30m long antenna for the JSTAR synthetic aperture radar!
One other thing it will be carrying is a sunray oven and WE KNOW what's it's for 
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I don't doubt that RMN has the COSMOS 118 at all BUT do they have microwave ovensOriginally posted by HARIMAU:LALEE will look something like this HERMES 1500 which already been purchased by SAF.So LALEE is a modified HERMES 1500 with AEW in mind.Bulky and make a good target though
On the RMN subsurface capabilities....well apart from the 2 SCORPENE SSK we also already received the AGOSTA 70B (armed with SSM SM39 EXOCET).if any of you guys ever been to Damai Laut resort (opp Lumut NB) you'll noticed the 2 Dutch SSK (brought there in 2001) are operational......sometimes there's one....sometimes there's none there......at times both are there.In short...the SSK are use by RMN.
Other than that rumours has it RMN PASKAL SOF operate Italian swallow water subs capable of carrying 16 commandos + armed with 2 Torpedo tubes.These subs are designed for shallow water (read straits etc) ops unlike SSK.PASKAL also got SDV MK IV and Subskimmer (eventhough not sub...still they provide subsurface capabilities).The new SOF centre in Mersing got 6 bay for mini subs......why the heck they bulit such bay if RMN do have any???? like the ones in RSN?
Latest rumors in RSN town is some divers have been sent to learn to ride the Russian supersonic torpedos - After they master the holding on bit, next how to steer, they learn how to EAT and steer, then they find out where the heck they going with it
Another email floating around that Saddam Hussein was actually discovered by an SAF officer?
Just kidding.....Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. -
Pub Date: Feb 26, 2002 Pub: BT Page: 8
Author: DBOEY
Headline: Singapore' new drones make public debut
By: David Boey
Page Heading: Singapore News
Corporation: Ministry of Defence, Mindef, Singapore Technologies
Engineering, Defence Science and Technology Agency
Subject: Military Aircraft
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Mindef says the Lalee can carry pilot and fly at 60,000 feet THE Chief Defence
Scientist (CDS) at the Ministry of Defence (Mindef) yesterday released fresh
details of the giant Lalee unmanned drone and two new unmanned aerial vehicles
(UAVs) developed by Singapore Technologies Engineering.
Lui Pao Chuen, Mindef's CDS, said in his keynote address to an international
gathering of about 400 defence professionals at the C4I Asia Conference on
battle management that the Lalee drone will be designed to fly at around
60,000 feet. This will put the flying height of the drone - which can be
manned or unpiloted - 'above the airways'.
This is the first time Mindef has revealed the Lalee's operating height and
the fact that it can carry a pilot.
The Lalee UAV is a large twin-boom, single-span aircraft which carries its
sensor payload slung between a central pod. The drone's name is an acronym
which stands for 'low altitude, long-enduring endurance'.
The Lalee project is complemented by efforts to develop tiny new UAVs. These
drones - a Tailsitter UAV which is smaller than a golf bag and a palm-sized
device called the Sparrow - are being engineered by ST Engineering's unit, ST
Dynamics.
These tiny battlefield surveillance devices made their public debut at Asian
Aerospace 2002 this morning.
The C4I conference was held to discuss issues related to command, control,
communication, computers and intelligence - essentially the synergy of
weapons, computers, and wireless communications. Defence planners nowadays use
an extended acronym for battle management called 'C4ISR' with the last two
letters referring to surveillance and reconnaissance missions.
Prof Lui said Mindef's long-standing investments in aerial drones and other
advanced sensors underscores Singapore's commitment to giving its defences
more strategic depth.
Engineers from Mindef, the Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) and
ST Engineering are finishing the Lalee's preliminary design in partnership
with its US-based designer, Burt Rutan.
DSTA is using Asian Aerospace 2002 to showcase its capability in C4ISR
expertise. At yesterday's conference, one of DSTA's industrial partners, ST
Electronics, also unveiled its Futuristic Soldier System suite of advanced
weapons sensors for the first time.
Teo Chin Hock, director (CSO) at DSTA, told BT: 'We see our local defence
industry as a very critical and strategic partner, especially in providing
engineering development and supporting those systems we acquire.'
Mr Teo said DSTA engineers have been involved in C4I-related projects 'for a
long time' and are focusing on developing information capabilities through
'exploration, experimentation and evolutionary development', a concept known
in defence circles as E3D.
'Basically we go off and explore concepts, experiment with technology and
evolve a system. In this area, the battlefield is changing constantly and the
technology changes even faster. So we've to evolve the requirements and build
according to these changes,' he said.
Mr Teo said the E3D concept entails extensive use of modelling and computer
simulations by DSTA's battle labs. E3D allows Singapore to engineer customised
solutions for the Republic's C4ISR needs. A lot of such work involves joint
projects with foreign partners.
He said: 'We put a lot of focus on forging new partnerships both with local
and overseas R&D partners to share and innovate on ideas and conduct
experiments. We collaborate a lot with defence industry partners to produce
field and support systems that are evolved through this E3D approach.
'We are viewed as a very credible partner and we're placed on equal
partnership with our foreign friends in bringing things to the table. The
value that we bring to the table is in terms of new operational capabilities
that we have when we work together for our armed forces.'
A bit off topic from "Navies".... ..The article above appeared in The Business Times on 26 Feb, 2002.
Harimau... I somewhat suspect that "Lalee" will be a tad larger than the UAV you mentioned. Thanks much for your spec ops pictures. Do you have any of PASKAL or HANDAU? I saw them on parade on Sept 16... funky berets!
Cheers
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I strongly believed the Dutch SSK were "given" FOC to the RMN as a sweetener - PSC (the ones who brought the SSK here) are the ones who got the RM5.4B contract for the 6 NGPV (with billions more -21 more ).That could be the most logical explaination coz till last Setember (some source even mentioned till today...but i dont dare to mentioned since i dont really know them that well) the SSK still at Lumut.Maybe one of u guys could went up there to verify it
BTW not everything posted by internet source news are up to date or correct.If it is correct.....then most Armed Forces could actualy save some money on intell gathering.My facts are correct......and i challenge any of you to prove to me otherwise(apart from posting dated news......have any of you guys read MINDEF official statement with regards to the Dutch SSK????None right???....ever wonder why????)
I just might post some SOF images in the future
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those subs actual sank an Indian Navy's frigate in 1971 Pak-Indian war.
If there are significant underwater threats in our region , the Sjoormen wont even cross Singapore's mind....
Indian has recently introduced them too after realising how effective there were especially for shallow waters. Guess how deep are the waters in the Straits of Malacca and those surrounding S'pore.
Do u know that our MPA do not have anti-submarine capability? I was shock when i confirmed that info with a MPA crew during open house. History had shown that Mindef will do anything possible to face a threat especially a threat that is sensitive to our security, why arent we doing anything to face a SIGNIFICANT underwater threat if there is one....?Ever wondered why was Courageous, an ASW PV, patrolling Pedra Branca?
lolx , read PV ( Patrol Vessel )... -
Mindef had released informations that the LALEE have a size of a Boeing 737 , armed with a 19m x 3 m radar ( if i remember it correctly ) and can perform high endurance surveillence circling . I believe the LALEE might be replacing the E-2C in her naval role or even be replacing the E-2C altogether with better surveillence technology in place in it..
I will expect a JSTAR similar system on it so as to supplement our ground surveillence capability. With newer artillery and armour threats overseas , we might be interested to know wat is happening real time on ground level .. -
oh ok.. haha i know wad it is, but wad does PASKAL stand for? does the RSN NDU operate midget subs? don't think so right?
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The info I gave from the net might not be up to date, but you still have no proof, no official statement abt the two old dutch submarines to say otherwise, only hearsays. I rather challege you to prove otherwise!!!!Originally posted by HARIMAU:I strongly believed the Dutch SSK were "given" FOC to the RMN as a sweetener - PSC (the ones who brought the SSK here) are the ones who got the RM5.4B contract for the 6 NGPV (with billions more -21 more ).That could be the most logical explaination coz till last Setember (some source even mentioned till today...but i dont dare to mentioned since i dont really know them that well) the SSK still at Lumut.Maybe one of u guys could went up there to verify it
BTW not everything posted by internet source news are up to date or correct.If it is correct.....then most Armed Forces could actualy save some money on intell gathering.My facts are correct......and i challenge any of you to prove to me otherwise(apart from posting dated news......have any of you guys read MINDEF official statement with regards to the Dutch SSK????None right???....ever wonder why????)
If they are still in Lumut , it does not mean anything, if the coy is not able to sell them to MY, they could actually leave them there for time being, becos it will cost them money if they are either tow or sail back to Europe, no point spending more money on them, right?
Or as you said FOC for the sales of NGPV, or whatever , it does not matter as it is only hearsay.One thing I want to add, the 6 NGPV cost abt US$1.42B, a new sub cost abt at least US$0.45B to US$0.6B, I think two old rerofiited subs should cost around there. Wow , suddenly the Dutch become so generous, especially there is no further order on the NGPVs, it was rumour to be on hold for the time being.Last time somebody went up there for a holiday (the resort) in September 03.....both SSK were there.....the next day....only one remained.
As the matter of fact , I find that you were actually twisting your story, at the first post, you said that someone saw them in Lumut w/o any else or backup which I believe it is the true, then in the second post you said they are sweetener for the sales of 27? NGPV.
Unless there is any other proof, it will remain as hearsay,even from you!
Afterall, RMN is getting the Agosta for training, does she actually need two type of subs for training? Ask yourself that.
CHARGE!!! -
PASKAL = PASukan KhAs Laut. Literally, "special sea service". The unit's penyelam penyerang ("attack/assault divers") are regarded as amongst the elite in Angkatan Tentera Malaysia (ATM; Malaysia Armed Forces).Originally posted by sgFish:oh ok.. haha i know wad it is, but wad does PASKAL stand for? does the RSN NDU operate midget subs? don't think so right?
PASKAL was formed in 1975 when the main Tentera Laut Diraja Malaysia (TLDM) base was at KD Malaya, located at - are you sitting down? - Woodlands!
The unit was declassified on 1 Oct 1980.
PASKAL qualified troops wear maroon berets.
HANDAU is the special forces unit in Tentera Udara Diraja Malaysia (TUDM, Royal Malaysia Air Force). It's an acronym for Pertahanan Udara, which literally means air defence but it functions as an airborne capable jungle rescue unit.
HANDAU troops wear light blue berets.
The tri-Service ATM contingent that marches on Malaysia Day usually comprises these troops, plus those from GGK (Group Gerak Khas, i.e. broadly similar to the Commandos). Look out for their berets - they make a pretty colourful lot. Great for media photos.
Maybe Harimau has more to add?
re: NDU. Dunno...... am not clued into what they do. -
Originally posted by gary1910:
Kindly convert the US$ into ringgit.....1us$=RM3.80.......so i dont see much diffrent from US$1.4B......simple maths my friend
As the matter of fact , I find that you were actually twisting your story, at the first post, you said that someone saw them in Lumut w/o any else or backup which I believe it is the true, then in the second post you said they are sweetener for the sales of 27? NGPV.
Unless there is any other proof, it will remain as hearsay,even from you!
Afterall, RMN is getting the Agosta for training, does she actually need two type of subs for training? Ask yourself that.
[b]CHARGE!!!
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You want proof.....like i said....went up there and see for ur self.....i'm not a snitch to gave every god damn thing on a silver plater to you....who do you think you are?????
For the record the SSK were procured by PSC not send here by Dutch Govt......and after RMN signed the SSK with France (abt 12-15 months ago )......why do you think the SSK still around????
A lot of things said here are hearsay....fact is if u ever served before you know that most A1 stuffs started from hearsay!!!!
I challenge anybody.....to proof my wrong abt the status of the SSK........no takers??? or u guys still too young to travel up here with out ur parents!!! -
Originally posted by gary1910:
Kindly convert the US$ into ringgit.....1us$=RM3.80.......so i dont see much diffrent from US$1.4B......simple maths my friend
As the matter of fact , I find that you were actually twisting your story, at the first post, you said that someone saw them in Lumut w/o any else or backup which I believe it is the true, then in the second post you said they are sweetener for the sales of 27? NGPV.
Unless there is any other proof, it will remain as hearsay,even from you!
Afterall, RMN is getting the Agosta for training, does she actually need two type of subs for training? Ask yourself that.
[b]CHARGE!!!
[/b]
You want proof.....like i said....went up there and see for ur self.....i'm not a snitch to gave every god damn thing on a silver plater to you....who do you think you are?????
For the record the SSK were procured by PSC not send here by Dutch Govt......and after RMN signed the SSK with France (abt 12-15 months ago )......why do you think the SSK still around????
A lot of things said here are hearsay....fact is if u ever served before you know that most A1 stuffs started from hearsay!!!!
I challenge anybody.....to proof my wrong abt the status of the SSK........no takers??? or u guys still too young to travel up here with out ur parents!!! -
if something is parked in malaysian naval base equals belong to malaysia...
then i think SAF would be really worried when a USN CVN and its Aegis escort ship enter a malaysian harbour
suddenly overnight... Malaysia has become a nuclear power!! muahahahahaa....
in any case... having known malaysia for so damn long... you can be sure of 2 thing...
1... they like to boast... and they sure boast alot!! like the Fulcrum and their NGPVs, not to mention their future SU-30 MKK... suffice to say... malaysia would try its very best to show off what it have now and even what it might have in the future...
if RMN have those subs under its ORBAT... rest assured... there would be much noise across the straits..
2... if those SUBs are in secret service to RMN... then whoever idiotic secuirty officer should be shot for letting a civilian like harimau getting a close up view ... -
Harimau, dun anyhow call ppl here kids, I noe you are only 20+ below 30y.o.Originally posted by HARIMAU:Kindly convert the US$ into ringgit.....1us$=RM3.80.......so i dont see much diffrent from US$1.4B......simple maths my friend
You want proof.....like i said....went up there and see for ur self.....i'm not a snitch to gave every god damn thing on a silver plater to you....who do you think you are?????
For the record the SSK were procured by PSC not send here by Dutch Govt......and after RMN signed the SSK with France (abt 12-15 months ago )......why do you think the SSK still around????
A lot of things said here are hearsay....fact is if u ever served before you know that most A1 stuffs started from hearsay!!!!
I challenge anybody.....to proof my wrong abt the status of the SSK........no takers??? or u guys still too young to travel up here with out ur parents!!!
And I am going to ROD from the army twice, so dun think every1 here is as young as you.
If you have read my post clearly , you should noe that I have already converted all currency to US$.I dun blame you, since you are so young, so rashed to rebut w/o clearly read what you were rebutting !
As the matter of fact, I did not said that the subs are not in MY.
I only questions why there is no official report on the lease or buy or give away since the last report was the lease was cancelled!
I also question the generosity of the Dutch coy for giving away the millions $ subs( I think at least worth US$0.2B a piece) for a contract of US$1.42B for 6 NGPV only!!
( the rest of the 21NGPV are on hold at the moment)
and I lastly question the need for RMN of having two type of training subs.!!!!
Time will tell whether what you have stated is a fact or hearsay since you do not have any other concrete proof.
CHARGE!!! -
I'm sorry garry if there's some missunderstanding or some of my post did "scratch" u a bit.....hope u could forgive me Anyway as i mentioned earlier....the SSK were bought by PENANG SHIPYARD CORP aka PSC and were not given by the Dutch govt....keep that in mind.Like it or not the SSK are here to stay with RMN......to believe or not to believe......it's up to you.
BTW yeah maybe i'm not as "old" as you...yet i did my SPM in 1988.....guess i'm not that young either...dont you think???
*i could respect sensible and rational comments,points,views etc....from most of u guys here.....yet funny thing is.....i just dont compute tripwire Suntech city guard lingo....
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Is the RMN considered the sort of "elite" service in the malaysian armed forces much like how the RSAF is considered in the SAF?
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No i dont think RMN are perceived as that......still they the most "brightest" among the three services (procurement wise)Originally posted by sgFish:Is the RMN considered the sort of "elite" service in the malaysian armed forces much like how the RSAF is considered in the SAF?