Tank Tactics
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My take on this... i'm no tank expert too anyway. hehehe
use heavy tanks to punch through and try and secure a primary forward defensive position in the very early stages of war due to lack of strategic depth.
Rapid deployment of manoverable force like Infantry to go up and dig in with the heavy tanks to further protect them from infantry insurgents and guerilla activities. Guards forces deployed to raid key installation in close proximity of forward positions supported by light tanks.
Meanwhile, LSTs land more light tanks and infantry forces from coastal hook and make enemies fight 2 fronts. Heavy tanks will then punch through progressively with Infantry support up the MSR.
The above is what i'll do if I'm the general loh. hehehe... IMHO, tanks cannot survive on its own in dense jungle terrain. And if you take away the vegetation, infantry forces no cover liao leh. That's why SAF is based on combined arms divisions. -
I think artillery is important in jungle warfare... because the denseness of the jungle limits a tank's or soldier's firing range. I remember the germans fielding multiple rocket systems at the infantry level. Like a small bundle of tubes of 9 or something. They were accurate but had limited range. Think it would be useful now?
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its time to start designing battle mechs.
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Hmm interesting strat. I want to make some adjustments... I think heavy tanks arent going to be very effective at the front line. I would send hordes or RPVs for intelligence first. Helo insert commandos ... scouts behind enemy lines. The light tanks and ifvs will be spearheading the attack mainly moving up the peninsula at a rapid pace due to their mobility. Heavy tanks in second line preventing flanking manouvers by enemy. Of course try to control airspace asap and intro attack helo support all the way. Insert Guards and LSV's just behind enemy lines to wreck havoc on supply lines and artillery. If possible LSTs land rapid reaction force on east or west coast ( west better becuz further from east malaysia ). Sending the fast and light tanks will give a great amount of flexibility. In the event where a light armored column is met with stiff resistance.. they can immediately withdraw to second line of heavy tanks and nearby forces can help in a "pincer" manouver.
Im basically adapting blitzkrieg tactics here.... so juz start with artillery and air bombardment.... up until the very last minute where the light armored vehicles and infantry attack. Momentum is of the upmost importance... the enemy cannot have the chance to regroup. Induce a mass evacuation of civilians so they may confuse enemy forces up north( they have to contend with the sudden influx of refugees). Rinse and repeat. Introduce mass propaganda campaign to lower enemy moral or to defect to our side. This strat I believe can gain a lot of ground and leave the enemy in ruins. what do you all think?? -
Like i stated earlier.... infantry cannot be grouped with tanks in an assault as this would undermine the tank's mobility. The light armored column must be independant.
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We could at least design a 20-30 ton light-medium tank to suit our own needs. Anything is better then the AMX-13.
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http://www.bellum.nu/bow/blitzkrieg/blitzkrieg.html
the webby will explain what i mean by armored cloumn acting independant ( theres a pic at the bottom ). This tactic will work if junior officers are well trained and flexible... they must be able to make their own decisions. A good signals infrastructure must be there to coordinate a rapid manouver.[/url] -
unfortunately.... whether such a tank is actually developed is not for us to say. I think the current tanks are pretty capable of handling such manouvers.. but thats just my opinion.
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Ya lah..I watch that episode I wanna cry man. There's enough warning when people tell u there are tanks ahead and u still wanna drive so fast into their killing zone...damn stupid.Originally posted by tiggersgd:if you've watched Band of Brothers....remember the scene whereby the British tankers refused to fire at a cluster of buildings just b'cos there's an order to protect them?? but the panzers are hiding in between these said buildings waiting to ambush and kill their enemies. and who noticed the panzers??? the infantry elites....my guess is that if they've lots of bazookas with them at that time, they would have taken out these panzers, laughing.
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Did you see how long the forest fire lasted when the farmers burn the trees for plantation?? It'll take ages for the fire to stop.....by the time it stop, someone will win the war and the whole earth suffer from radiation cause ozone layer gone.Originally posted by V1NS@niTY:regarding the "firestorm"weapon.... i was thinking launch first... burn out land.. THEN send troops... like that how to get collateral damage? only enemy kena right?
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Sure our "tanks" can move and do the manouvers, but they can't do much else. Armed with paper thin armour that can be taken out by HMGs, let alone infantry fired AT weapons and a porky 75mm gun that's good only for 12 shots.Originally posted by V1NS@niTY:unfortunately.... whether such a tank is actually developed is not for us to say. I think the current tanks are pretty capable of handling such manouvers.. but thats just my opinion. -
Oh yeah, we can't even shoot on the move... thus nullifying our mobility "advantage" (BTW an M1 tank can outrun our SM1)
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never fear..our new tank is on the way..just watch out for it.Sm1 was good around 10 years ago however it deterioated veri fast.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Oh yeah, we can't even shoot on the move... thus nullifying our mobility "advantage" (BTW an M1 tank can outrun our SM1)
btw on my earlier post..the less than 1 month senario is based on the logistics that we have based on the weapons north thrown at us..if south join in.probably closer to 2 weeks.before we give up if no help arrives. -
Local terrain is not suitable for heavy tanks due to the heavy rainfall and the softness of the ground. MBT are mainly used for open space combats like those used in desert war and such. They need large area to turn and move around so it's hard for them to fight in the jungle here too due to the thick vegetation.Originally posted by V1NS@niTY:Hmm interesting strat. I want to make some adjustments... I think heavy tanks arent going to be very effective at the front line. I would send hordes or RPVs for intelligence first. Helo insert commandos ... scouts behind enemy lines. The light tanks and ifvs will be spearheading the attack mainly moving up the peninsula at a rapid pace due to their mobility. Heavy tanks in second line preventing flanking manouvers by enemy. Of course try to control airspace asap and intro attack helo support all the way. Insert Guards and LSV's just behind enemy lines to wreck havoc on supply lines and artillery. If possible LSTs land rapid reaction force on east or west coast ( west better becuz further from east malaysia ). Sending the fast and light tanks will give a great amount of flexibility. In the event where a light armored column is met with stiff resistance.. they can immediately withdraw to second line of heavy tanks and nearby forces can help in a "pincer" manouver.
Im basically adapting blitzkrieg tactics here.... so juz start with artillery and air bombardment.... up until the very last minute where the light armored vehicles and infantry attack. Momentum is of the upmost importance... the enemy cannot have the chance to regroup. Induce a mass evacuation of civilians so they may confuse enemy forces up north( they have to contend with the sudden influx of refugees). Rinse and repeat. Introduce mass propaganda campaign to lower enemy moral or to defect to our side. This strat I believe can gain a lot of ground and leave the enemy in ruins. what do you all think??
With your theory of landing in the west rather than the east. If the time really comes and we'll definitely strike first against the northern enemies, do you think the surrounding neighbours will just look at you striking at a religious brother of theirs? And where is your so call mass number of refugees gonna come from? You gonna catch all those people from johor and suddenly release them to create that mass evacuation of yours?
We can see the blitzkrieg tactics in almost every war. Even in LOTR. They attack first with their catapults and wyvern, throwing in those heads of knights to lower the defender's morales then move in with the battering rams and landing towers. When the door comes down the first enemy you see are the huge size trolls and finally the infantry. It's the standard procedure of every war, so no point you coming here and say how to fight the war. Leave it to those planning to do the job.
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Scouts and LRRP are definitely deployed one. But if like you say, push up very fast right and then gain alot of ground, the MSR will be very vulnerable, in the end, will become like Iraq where US combat trains are always ambushed. And that is in an open desert terrain leh... If its in a jungle, i think the forward light tank forces will face a possibility of being cut off by guerilla forces and run out of ammo and fuel.Originally posted by V1NS@niTY:Hmm interesting strat. I want to make some adjustments... I think heavy tanks arent going to be very effective at the front line. I would send hordes or RPVs for intelligence first. Helo insert commandos ... scouts behind enemy lines. The light tanks and ifvs will be spearheading the attack mainly moving up the peninsula at a rapid pace due to their mobility. Heavy tanks in second line preventing flanking manouvers by enemy. Of course try to control airspace asap and intro attack helo support all the way. Insert Guards and LSV's just behind enemy lines to wreck havoc on supply lines and artillery. If possible LSTs land rapid reaction force on east or west coast ( west better becuz further from east malaysia ). Sending the fast and light tanks will give a great amount of flexibility. In the event where a light armored column is met with stiff resistance.. they can immediately withdraw to second line of heavy tanks and nearby forces can help in a "pincer" manouver.
Im basically adapting blitzkrieg tactics here.... so juz start with artillery and air bombardment.... up until the very last minute where the light armored vehicles and infantry attack. Momentum is of the upmost importance... the enemy cannot have the chance to regroup. Induce a mass evacuation of civilians so they may confuse enemy forces up north( they have to contend with the sudden influx of refugees). Rinse and repeat. Introduce mass propaganda campaign to lower enemy moral or to defect to our side. This strat I believe can gain a lot of ground and leave the enemy in ruins. what do you all think??
You are very interested in WWII Germans hoh?.. hehehe... -
something to add to my strategy above lah... the MBTs maybe should dig in with the Infantry since they can't move much. at least form a solid forward defensive perimeter. Since we aren't supposed to be the aggressors, no point gaining lotsa' ground lah. I think the Blitz tactic is primarily an offensive manoveur loh.
With our superior numbers in defensive fortified positions... I don't think anyone can penetrate lah.. -
Are you insane... they don't have to penetrate our defences, just cut off Singapore within a few months we die liao. Unfortunately our only defensive options remains as two: Hypercredible deterrence and an offensive pre-empt.Originally posted by 12qwaszx:something to add to my strategy above lah... the MBTs maybe should dig in with the Infantry since they can't move much. at least form a solid forward defensive perimeter. Since we aren't supposed to be the aggressors, no point gaining lotsa' ground lah. I think the Blitz tactic is primarily an offensive manoveur loh.
With our superior numbers in defensive fortified positions... I don't think anyone can penetrate lah.. -
yeah... im very interested in WW2 particularly from the german's point of view. All my opinions are based on information i read from textbooks and accounts. I have no field experience and i have not served ns. I just luv strategy and i luv discussing it with other ppl. So its good to hear all your criticisms...
So back to discussion.
So apparently... our light tanks are too light on armor? Does this include the Bionix and M113s? Of course heavy tanks are not suited to jungle combat... that is why i suggested as a second line of attack... to mop up fleeing enemy ( if any) or any last pockets of resistance. They can also be a mobile defense line that frontline troops can fall back to. The key word im trying to put forward is flexibility in offensive operations.
I dont know much abt gureilla warfare but I dont think any opponents army will be totally made out of gureilla fighters.. maybe juz rangers and commandos, elite soldiers etc etc. Anyway I dont think the army was ever intended to be an occupational army. Just to get in... hit them hard and then run home. So gureilla attacks shouldnt be too much of a problem. -
relax lah dinosaur.... just a suggestion mah.
maybe that's why i'm not a general loh. hahahaha
my idea was to minimize loss and wait for rescue loh. If no one come rescue us, confirm die loh.. -
you might be surprise that our neighbours's fav tactic is the guerilla warfare with all those forest out there. How you gonna hit them hard when they fire 2 rounds at you and you got to chase them for the whole day? It's not on how they use guerilla tactic to attack you. It's how they defend while you only got a limited number of supply that's gonna kill you.Originally posted by V1NS@niTY:yeah... im very interested in WW2 particularly from the german's point of view. All my opinions are based on information i read from textbooks and accounts. I have no field experience and i have not served ns. I just luv strategy and i luv discussing it with other ppl. So its good to hear all your criticisms...
So back to discussion.
So apparently... our light tanks are too light on armor? Does this include the Bionix and M113s? Of course heavy tanks are not suited to jungle combat... that is why i suggested as a second line of attack... to mop up fleeing enemy ( if any) or any last pockets of resistance. They can also be a mobile defense line that frontline troops can fall back to. The key word im trying to put forward is flexibility in offensive operations.
I dont know much abt gureilla warfare but I dont think any opponents army will be totally made out of gureilla fighters.. maybe juz rangers and commandos, elite soldiers etc etc. Anyway I dont think the army was ever intended to be an occupational army. Just to get in... hit them hard and then run home. So gureilla attacks shouldnt be too much of a problem.
How far back are you gonna place the heavy tanks? If the offensive group fights deep into the forest, your heavy tanks will have problems going in. Cannot heli insert too cause too heavy..in the end it'll be another exhibit at the museum when the war end. -
I agree with you totally man. That's why our best defence is still offence..if our army is dug in. there is abs no room to manuveur..all they need to do call in MLRS + arty bombarement.....i beleive there have enuf to flatten at least hald of singapore?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Are you insane... they don't have to penetrate our defences, just cut off Singapore within a few months we die liao. Unfortunately our only defensive options remains as two: Hypercredible deterrence and an offensive pre-empt. -
You older than me.....I think or that WW2 book has really sunk in! Intelligence is always there (everyday) in many forms. RPVs, HUMINT, ELINT, etc Actually strategically, you can buy satellite SPOT images or the Russian equivalent. Of course you buddy with US big brother you get for free.Originally posted by V1NS@niTY:Hmm interesting strat. I want to make some adjustments... I think heavy tanks arent going to be very effective at the front line. I would send hordes or RPVs for intelligence first. Helo insert commandos ... scouts behind enemy lines.
The light tanks and ifvs will be spearheading the attack mainly moving up the peninsula at a rapid pace due to their mobility. Heavy tanks in second line preventing flanking manouvers by enemy. Of course try to control airspace asap and intro attack helo support all the way.
Insert Guards and LSV's just behind enemy lines to wreck havoc on supply lines and artillery. If possible LSTs land rapid reaction force on east or west coast ( west better becuz further from east malaysia ). Sending the fast and light tanks will give a great amount of flexibility. In the event where a light armored column is met with stiff resistance.. they can immediately withdraw to second line of heavy tanks and nearby forces can help in a "pincer" manouver.
Im basically adapting blitzkrieg tactics here.... so juz start with artillery and air bombardment.... up until the very last minute where the light armored vehicles and infantry attack. Momentum is of the upmost importance... the enemy cannot have the chance to regroup. Induce a mass evacuation of civilians so they may confuse enemy forces up north( they have to contend with the sudden influx of refugees). Rinse and repeat. Introduce mass propaganda campaign to lower enemy moral or to defect to our side. This strat I believe can gain a lot of ground and leave the enemy in ruins. what do you all think??
Problem is in the interpretation, forming one coherent picture and digesting! I wild guessing only ah......MSD.
Do like Gen MacArthur lah......why fight south to north only!!! LSV's, AMX-10Ps
Once you have control of the railroads and highway, things are much easier. I think if there's a fight it will happen in Gemas only.
But really blitzkrieg can only win you the battle! Then comes the occupation part.......then you realise waste of time AND ppl AND money
Senseless for Sg to start this! Only loss no gain. Very good example is X and old timers like hardliner Sgt Ariel Sharon with what's his name Ah....fart -
I'm not very old in the first place... juz turned 18 last month... ive delayed my ns for another 3 yrs to finish studies...
I think any force moving up north must avoid the highways during the offensive as they are most likely going to be watched. Ambushes anyone?
Only when the frontline force has gone through a particular area then maybe the trucks can use the highways to bring supplies to the front quickly. So I think during the offensive, troops have to avoid high areas... use dead ground... get plenty of cover and camo. -
Anyway the highways will be clogged full of fleeing ppl. You dont have to tell them anything, juz fire a few shots ( not at them of course )and the some of the local pupulation will start driving their protons up north. wouldnt you flee asap and avoid areas of conflict?
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AMX-13SM1 is definitely old and almost close to being obsolete. However, one must not underestimated the fire power of them. Each tank is armed with 2 MG and a 75mm Main Gun. The main gun can fire a range of munitions(WP,CAN.FS & HE). The tanks operate in platoons of 4 vehicles. That will be a total of 8 MG and 4 main guns. Imagine they form up in a line and charge at an entrenched position.Even if you minus the main guns, the 8 MGs spraying 7.62mm rds is indeed frightening! Although it cannot operate in dense tropical jungle very effectively,due to it relatively small size it is able to operate in in the plantations up north. Remember gentlemen, lots of land have already been converted to oil palm and rubber plantations. The trees are planted in a fashion where the space between the trees are standardised. Due to this advantage, i dun feel that the SM1 is totally obsolete yet at least not in another 5 years before its replacement is unveiled.
