Navies
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From what I know, RMN at the meanwhile had better weapons and system than RSN, anybod care to discuss it?
Although we haf the Harpoon, but they haf the Tesso Ottomat which has a 100Nm range. And for their navies SAM, their Aspide is comparable to our Barak where Aspide has a slight advantage is speed... they are 0.5Mach faster than Barak...
They are also upgrading their Radar and EW system also...
They seems to be comparable to us or even better in terms of hardware... How do Analyst deduce tt RSN is the best Navy in the region? And their ships are much more than us too...
Regarding their manpower, I think tt their guys had improved alot... -
uhmmmm.....
its because we got subs
we got E-2C
and we got fokker-50 enforcer MPA
even without RSAF assistance... winning them would be a walk in the park.
their otomat may be able to shoot very far... further then RSN harpoon... but....... can they DETECT and ID a hostile vessel at such long ranges??
no point able to shoot far far... but dont know what you are shooting at right?
and there are so many places to hide in an archepelago...
aspide?? i think still pending budget release... by the time they got it..... they can meet our ASTER 30
in a straight fight... they got nothing to challenge our subs... yah yah i know they getting subs... but unless their subs can time travel back from 2008/9 to 2004... their navy butts will be soaked in salt water... -
So our edge comes from our "training" subs?
Nobody mentioned on RMN's anti-sub capability? Are they good at this?Originally posted by tripwire:uhmmmm.....
its because we got subs
we got E-2C
and we got fokker-50 enforcer MPA
even without RSAF assistance... winning them would be a walk in the park.
their otomat may be able to shoot very far... further then RSN harpoon... but....... can they DETECT and ID a hostile vessel at such long ranges??
no point able to shoot far far... but dont know what you are shooting at right?
and there are so many places to hide in an archepelago...
aspide?? i think still pending budget release... by the time they got it..... they can meet our ASTER 30
in a straight fight... they got nothing to challenge our subs... yah yah i know they getting subs... but unless their subs can time travel back from 2008/9 to 2004... their navy butts will be soaked in salt water... -
Malaysians seem to have an obession with getting long ranged weapons, but they are not backing them up with much brains. No point getting a long ranged missile when you don't know what you are shooting at such extreme range and worse, shorter ranged missiles outpreform you when you are nearer to them. A Harpoon is far more worth the bang for the buck.
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those aint no trainning subs... and as far as i check... RSN dont have afew dozen SSKs waiting desperately to be filled with crews that RSN need 5 trainning subs to satisfy the demand for trainning so many submariners.
important thing is... those subs can sink ships... who gives a damn if you called them trainning subs or pinky subs.... in war... we can turn around and call them SUPER SUBS!! STEALTH SUBS!! or any name we choose to give -
RMN ASW capability....
2 lekiu class frigate... carries hull mounted sonar as well as 2*3 whitehead torpedo.
2 hangtuah class frigate.. carries something called anti submarine mortar.... but obviously not working well... last i heard... they were trying to replace it with torpedos as well...
6 superlynx ASW helicopter... dont know if really ASW or not... because all i heard is speculations and more speculations.... but i will give them the benefit of the doubt... even though they just recieved the first heli merely afew weeks ago..
4 laksamana corvettes with torps as well... oops... they seems to be equipped with aspide?? cant be sure... and the range of the otomat 2 according to this website is 120km... weird... maybe this website sala...
i think thats about it....
but then... hunting subs aint no easy job... especially if you have to avoid the E-2C and the fokker 50s carrying harpoon and torps coming at you.....
of course these are merely for comparison purpose... between navies ONLY... else...
but from what i see simply.....
RMN 2 lekiu + 4 laksamana = 6 RSN victory MCV (their ships bigger.. ours stealthier)
RMN 8 FAC(M) = 6 RSN MGBs (we have less ship... but our missile fly further)
malaysian NGPVs = 12 RSN PVs
RMN ???? = 6 RSN Formidable frigate
RMN ???? = 5 RSN challenger subs
RMN ???? = 4 RSN E-2C
RMN ???? = 4 RSN Fokker 50 MPA
RMN super lynx = RSN XX ????
any comments -
We have only 4 operational subs, the 5th is use ( cannibalised ) for spares.
E2-C is RSAF not RSN
We have 5 Fokker 50MPA -
E-2C is under both RSN and RSAF... check the navy seal on the E-2C if you no see....
how you know the last sub if for canibalise? how much spareparts can you gain from one sub and use to support 4 subs??
one sub for cannabilization if true... aint gonna be enough... and its dumb to cannabilise a sub just for spare parts... we aint that poor.. -
Originally posted by tripwire:
do we haf or gonna acquire Aster 30?? I tot e papers said our frigates gonna equip with Aster15??
uhmmmm.....
its because we got subs
we got E-2C
and we got fokker-50 enforcer MPA
even without RSAF assistance... winning them would be a walk in the park.
their otomat may be able to shoot very far... further then RSN harpoon... but....... can they DETECT and ID a hostile vessel at such long ranges??
no point able to shoot far far... but dont know what you are shooting at right?
and there are so many places to hide in an archepelago...
aspide?? i think still pending budget release... by the time they got it..... they can meet [b][b]our ASTER 30 [/b]
in a straight fight... they got nothing to challenge our subs... yah yah i know they getting subs... but unless their subs can time travel back from 2008/9 to 2004... their navy butts will be soaked in salt water...
[/b] -
Tripwire, officially the RSN have bought 5 subs but only going to commission 4. As for the 5th, it is announced to be used for spares. There is no name for the 5th sub perhaps maybe RSS Spares?
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anybod here knows wats the official websites for RMN?
where can i get pics of msian ships like the laksa mcv, lekiu frigate and so on...?? -
A bit abt RMN since bits posted by tripwire just aint that accurate
2 x F2000 FFG (aka Lekiu) armed with MM40 BLOCK II,VLS SEAWOLF SAM,AS 244S,57mm SAK2,DS 30B 30mm,Super Lynx MK 300 armed with depth charges,AS 244S and SEA SKUA (6 ordered 4 delivered to date)
2 x FS1500 (Lekir class) armed with MM40 BLOCK II,BOFORS 375mm ASW,57mm SAK,100mm COMPACT,DS30 30mm + MANPDAS mounting,able to carry Lynx yet at the moment likely carry AS555SN FENNEC (radar equipped for OTOMAT OTHT)
1 x YARROW TYPE 71 (Rahmat) armed with 114mm,40mm L70,ASW mortar and able to carry Lynx
1 x HANG TUAH (training FF not worth mention)
6 x Laksamana FMC armed with OTOMAT MK2,ASPIDE,76mm,30mm twin,AS 244S.
4 x Spica M FAC armed with MM38,57mm SAK,40mm L70
4 x Perdana FAC armed with MM38,57mm SAK,40mm L70
6 x Jerung FAC, 6 x NGPV armed with 76mm,30mm,RIM 116A SAM or MICA VLS,Polyphem SSM or MM40 can carry Lynx (1 delivered),2 OPV,21 PC armed with 2 x 40mm,17 CB90H armed with 20mm or HMG etc.....etc
1 SSK AGOSTA 70B armed with SM39 delivered.....another 2 SSK on order.....rumours has it RMN operate a nos of mini subs
RMN now has 2 sqn of helos operate and run by the navy with their own naval base.
so these baby dont have ASW capabilities huh????
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Im not surprise if Singapore do operate mini submarines.Originally posted by HARIMAU:rumours has it RMN operate a nos of mini subs so these baby dont have ASW capabilities huh????
Ha , without air superiority , such babies are as good as without ASW capabilities. Yeah? -
I believe Mindef have not release any information on which type of Aster Missiles the frigates will carry.Originally posted by Arena:do we haf or gonna acquire Aster 30?? I tot e papers said our frigates gonna equip with Aster15??
If Mindef see the purpose to a need for a National Missile Defense or logistic and fleet defense ( practise by various countries ) , i believe the Aster30 will be most appropriate. -
I thought RMN has only 4 Laksamana corvettes. Since when did they order 2 more?????
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RMN got order 6 lekiu frigate meh????
and 4 are delivered???
whats the name of the 4 lekiu frigate har?? -
umm... actually hor.. that 8 FAC(M) of RMN not worth mentioning lah... no way they stand a chance one on one against RSN MGBs.
rahmat also not worth mentioning lah... no missile one... sitting duck more likely..
by the way... i thought malaysia's NGPV is gonna be delivered WITHOUT weapons?? or am i wrong?
so... actual RMN strength should be 12(?) helo, 2 lekiu, 2 lekir and 4 laksa VS RSN 6 MCV, 6 MGB, 4 E-2C, 4 F-50MPA and 4 subs? -
yo, you abit optimistic. Juz between RSN &RMN, I think we lose. But we have RSAF that makes the difference. I believe our defence planner draw lessons from British ill-fated warships during WW2. Develop a strong Air force to rule the skies and turn enemies warships into sitting ducksOriginally posted by tripwire:but from what i see simply.....
RMN 2 lekiu + 4 laksamana = 6 RSN victory MCV (their ships bigger.. ours stealthier)
RMN 8 FAC(M) = 6 RSN MGBs (we have less ship... but our missile fly further)
malaysian NGPVs = 12 RSN PVs
RMN ???? = 6 RSN Formidable frigate
RMN ???? = 5 RSN challenger subs
RMN ???? = 4 RSN E-2C
RMN ???? = 4 RSN Fokker 50 MPA
RMN super lynx = RSN XX ????
any comments -
it would be nice if you could at least enlighten us singaporeans who has been so brainwashed by our media...Originally posted by 84mmrr:yo, you abit optimistic. Juz between RSN &RMN, I think we lose. But we have RSAF that makes the difference. I believe our defence planner draw lessons from British ill-fated warships during WW2. Develop a strong Air force to rule the skies and turn enemies warships into sitting ducks
perhaps you could shed some light to your opinion rather than simply arbitrary claiming that the moon is hotter than the sun? -
LOL.... since when did defence planners draw inspiration from WW2?? I thought its juz common sense..
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Try visiting the Malaysian Navy Home Page, and details of its fleet can be extracted:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~steven/royal_malaysian_navy.htm
LEIKU Class Light Frigate
Two light frigates of Frigate 2000 design from Yarrow Shipbuilding in Glasgow. Leiku (30) launched in December 1994, Jebat (29) in May 1995
Each of these light frigates are armed with MM4U Exocet Block II two 4-cell launchers, Seawolf anti-aircraft and anti-ship missile (Range 6 km), Whitehead 324mm B515 Triple Tube Torpedo launchers, one Westland Lynx helicopter; one main gun Bofors 57mm, and two MSI 30mm guns.
Kasturi Class (FS 1500) Frigates
Two Kasturi Class Frigates were delivered in the 1980's, constructed in Germany by HDW on the FS1500 Frigate design; armed with Creusot Loire 100mm main gun, Bofors Mk 1 57mm gun, 30mm twin cannons, Bofors 375 ASW rockets, and four MM38 Exocet SSM.
LAKSAMANA Class Corvettes
First two 650t missile corvettes were ordered in October 1995 from Fincantieri; and two additional ships were ordered in February 1997, based on an original ship design ordered by the Iraqi Navy.
The corvettes' are armed with sea-skimming Otomat Mark 2/Teseo missile system, with three tubes poiting port and three pointing to starboard - all installed on the stern deck. The ship's medium range air defense is the Albatros firing the Aspide missiles against aircrafts and incoming anti-ship missiles. The torpedo system is the ILAS-3 torpedo launcher from Whitehead Alenia, with triple launchers installed one each side on the main deck, armed with the A244/S anti-submarine torpedoes.
MEKO A-100 RMN Class Corvettes
Six Meko A-100 schedule for delivery in 2004, and to be used as coastal patrol vessels, armed with an OtoBreda 76/62 Rapido medium range gun, and an Otobreda/Mauser 30mm short range gun, with provision for later addition of one Rolling Airframe Missile RIM-116A launcher for air defense, and two launchers for the MM40 Exocet anti-ship missile.
HANDALAN Class (Spica-M) Patrol Craft
These are Small Patrol Craft based on Swedish design and total of four vessels were commissioned in October 1979.
Each ship is armed with ONE Bofors 57mm/70 gun, one Bofors 40mm/70 gun, and four Aerospatiale MM38 Exocet Anti-ship Missiles.
SRI INDERA SAKTI Class Support Ships
Two Sri Indera Sakti Class Support Ships are owned by the RMN, with KD Sri Indera Sakti (1503) built in Germany and commissioned in 1980; while KD Mahawangsa (1504) was built in South Korea and commissioned in 1983.
Each is armed with one Bofors Mk1 57mm gun and two 20mm machine guns.
SUBMARINES
Contract signed on June 5, 2003 for the purchase of 3 submarines - consisting of one overhauled ex-French navy submarine - the Augusta 70, for initial training
Both are multi-role ships, able to perfrom variety of duties like logistics, transport, amphibious transport, command post, small craft tender, training ship.
In June 2002, in Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian Defense Ministry signed with DCN International to build two medium size SSK Scorpene Class Attack Submarines.
The first submarine will enter service in 2007, and the second unit is to enter service on 2008. -
so.... harimaus figure is massaged figures har?
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Based on my conversations with my friends who used to serve in the Navy. That was during the mid 90s. I shall not elaborate what happened. Just say we were outgunned? With the new Frigates, things should change for the better.Originally posted by tripwire:it would be nice if you could at least enlighten us singaporeans who has been so brainwashed by our media...
perhaps you could shed some light to your opinion rather than simply arbitrary claiming that the moon is hotter than the sun? -
i would have thought that your previous sentence was in reference to present time rather then the situation 8 years ago or more...
frankly... we all knows that the RSN has been on the last in line for any budget for a good few decades... i still remember the time when we only have 6 MGBs to be "proud" of... so to speak...
there was once a time i remeber that PM GCT actually said in a public speech that given the choice between a fighter and a ship... he would go for the fighter as they are cheaper and something blah blah blah... cant remember them...
presently... it appears that the policy has reversed... probably especially since you know where our current defence minister hails from
but such allegations are unfair... i simply believe that the SAF after much expansion in the air and land... has finally turned around and decided its the navy turn.... we wont want a weak arm in a combine arms right?
another reason could be due to the closer cooperation and interoperation of the different services has help to recognise each others importance and thus... who knows... maybe its the army and the air force who has been pushing for the navy's growth...