Singapore only buys military technology doesn't invent any
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SAR21 modified version of TAV21? That's not right. The SAR21 and TAV21 are different mechanically. Strip both if you have a chance.
The only thing similar was the concept plan on paper - that of a bullpup assault rifle, with optical sight and laser aiming device.Originally posted by damienthedevil:To answer RussianPower and Moonstriker, yes the Amraam is supposed to be in Sg the day the Thais got theirs in their homesoil.
Read some time back in JDW that SG acquired a small amount of Israel Derby, when the Americans decided to withhold the SG Amraam.
To answer NathanG5, I was highlighting some facts and yes the SAR21 was a modified and better version of the TAVOR21. -
This topic keeps coming up. There is no technology in the world that is designed in isolation. Every new technology is based on something else in the past, particularly for mature technologies like military hardware. No matter what weapon you are looking at, you will ALWAYS be able to say that it is "based on" something else, or "copied from" something else. This is true for any country's weapons, even the latest US hardware.
The real question is HOW MUCH did Singapore add to previous technology. "How much" meaning how much improvement in efficiency the improvements create, and how innovative the differences are. In most of the weapon systems we use, the improvements have been very significant. For example, the Endurance class LPDs have a unique arrestor system on the heli pads that allow the helicopters to launch and land even when the deck is 45 degrees from horizontal, allowing heli-ops to occur in all sea states. The SAR-21 is the first rifle to be fielded in any army which uses permanently factory zeroed sights, and has a unique mechanism that lowers peak recoil.
We Singaporeans have a weird tendency to look down on things from our own country. We get a little help to build something or the design uses elements from another and straight away it is just a copy of something else. This is true for many things, not just weapons. I will never understand this "reverse patriotism" that many Singaporeans exhibit -- so different from people elsewhere. Other people praise our technology (the Marines are thinking of buying Ultimaxes to replace their Minimis), but we must be ashemed of it. Can't get it... -
Heck no!! the 1st SAR-21's blew up when the batt got wet,the scope cracked pretty often,scope fogged up and there was no iron sight and it jammed slight less often then the M16 only.The 2nd and 3rd types had most of this fixed though.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:The SAR-21 is in it's third incarnation now, and it is argubably among the most effective assualt rifles in the world today, as rated by Janes.
The SAR-21, even in it's first version, is still far more reliable then your M-16, the thing is, Soldiers tend to get used to the M-16 foul ups and jammings as they feel comfortable with an established weapon but then to take every single time the SAR-21 messes up way out of it's actual implication due to the "new-weapon paranoia" syndrome, however even in it's first production version, the SAR-21 is more reliable then the M-16 in an order of several magnitudes, along with a marked spike in shooting accuracy. -
Why do you think we improved it if there were no teething problems?Originally posted by |-|05|:Heck no!! the 1st SAR-21's blew up when the batt got wet,the scope cracked pretty often,scope fogged up and there was no iron sight and it jammed slight less often then the M16 only.The 2nd and 3rd types had most of this fixed though.
And I don't think it jammed "only slightly less often" then the M16, the first SAR-21 version was far more reliable, the problem of it IAing more often then expected was the lack of experience with the weapon with first batch of field testors and they usually left their valve setting too low for the weapon to cycle, as well as forgetting that the weapon needs a healthy charge on the first round.
The basic concept was solid but the implementation, as usual, Singapore style, is always a little weak. One thing which they haven't bothered to fix is the insane location of the fire selector and the lack of provisions for left handed shooters... delectors don't work very well on that thing. -
On the topic of creating and producing one's own military hardware, the example that always comes to mind is De Gaulle pulling the rug out from under Israel's feet in 1967. To prevent that kind of situation alone, developing capabilities locally is definitely an idea that has merit.
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ST Kinetics' Suer Rapid Advanced mortar System (120 SRAMS) is definitely invented and not bought. The design and development are done locally.
There are other projects like the miniture UAV called TailSitter
that are invented locally. Of course the invention here in Singapore are not extremely innovative, but I think Singapore still can be proud of its achievements being such a small country in terms of size and population. -
No the 1st few versions jammed pretty often.And yes it was mostly due to the lack of understanding of the weapon.But it still jammed.And it's a good thing they improved itOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Why do you think we improved it if there were no teething problems?
And I don't think it jammed "only slightly less often" then the M16, the first SAR-21 version was far more reliable, the problem of it IAing more often then expected was the lack of experience with the weapon with first batch of field testors and they usually left their valve setting too low for the weapon to cycle, as well as forgetting that the weapon needs a healthy charge on the first round.
The basic concept was solid but the implementation, as usual, Singapore style, is always a little weak. One thing which they haven't bothered to fix is the insane location of the fire selector and the lack of provisions for left handed shooters... delectors don't work very well on that thing. -
It's a Israel Soltam design - "ST Kinetics' Super Rapid Advanced mortar System (120 SRAMS) is definitely invented and not bought. The design and development are done locally".
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Are you referring to Soltam's CARDOM? But the two systems are not exactly alike. Compare:Originally posted by damienthedevil:It's a Israel Soltam design - "ST Kinetics' Super Rapid Advanced mortar System (120 SRAMS) is definitely invented and not bought. The design and development are done locally".
...with...
Or perhaps you have something else in mind. (In any case, the CARDOM seems to be Soltam's only Advanced 120mm Mortar system.)
Cheers
Theory -
Hmm another Singapore collabaration. I m not against the re-fining of weapons system as long as it suits our operational req.
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/corrections.html
Sorry if this has been posted before