Possible emergence of Singaporean warrior culture?
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Hi fellas I am a first time member here and this is my first post. 
Just wondering whether Singapore could possibly see the emegence on a 'warrior' culture or martial culture of sorts within the next few generations.We have a had national service since 1967 and a few generations of Singaporeans have gone through it.Could it be possible that when Singapore matures into the future,as an older nation,lets say 1 century,is a warrior culture akin to the gurkhas or the sikhs or for that matter the israelis possible?
Please post relevant answers.Don't talk cock -
doubt it...
besides, the true warrior of tomorrow? their arms are money, power and information..
p.s.
from your handle.. remember the sardaukar were kicked by the fremen... who went on a rampage.. and ended up being impotent and useless after the God-Emperor... whose power came mostly from the monopoly over the only source of Melange... the other bits of power came from money and information, in the form of his prescience..
with that, he became the supreme predator and the warrior code was subverted -
i doubt so too... looking at the attitude of many pple who treated NS as a waste of time...
Patriotism... i doubt we are really tested yet
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Nay, wont!
Nuff said. -
the kind of spirit tt existed within the gurkhas, the knights, etc no longer exist in this modern days. this is inevitable, wif the advent of technology, and the corresponding evolution of command and tactics.Originally posted by Sardaukar: Hi fellas I am a first time member here and this is my first post.
Just wondering whether Singapore could possibly see the emegence on a 'warrior' culture or martial culture of sorts within the next few generations.We have a had national service since 1967 and a few generations of Singaporeans have gone through it.Could it be possible that when Singapore matures into the future,as an older nation,lets say 1 century,is a warrior culture akin to the gurkhas or the sikhs or for that matter the israelis possible?
Please post relevant answers.Don't talk cock -
hoho. the sardaukar are good. the fremen are better! only the best survive in the worst environment.Originally posted by the Bear:doubt it...
besides, the true warrior of tomorrow? their arms are money, power and information..
p.s.
from your handle.. remember the sardaukar were kicked by the fremen... who went on a rampage.. and ended up being impotent and useless after the God-Emperor... whose power came mostly from the monopoly over the only source of Melange... the other bits of power came from money and information, in the form of his prescience..
with that, he became the supreme predator and the warrior code was subverted
sorry for the crappy post.
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Well the three examples that you give all have one thing in common - there is an ethnic element to the culture, and in all three instances the culture has been strengthened by their ethnicity being threatened by other nations or cultures. Even if Singapore was to be threatened by its neighbours, that ethnic element may be missing.
I wonder if, had Nepal been a much richer nation, the Gurkha culture would have shifted its focus from farming to soldiering.
Sardaukar, your nick sounds familiar - you're not on TankNet, are you? -
Nope sorry I don't post at tanknet.
Anyway.thanks for the responses.The general perception i'm getting is that most people feel that with the way current society is and with the evolution in command and tactics,becoming a warrior culture is very hard,but Not impossible.Or so I feel.I am just of the opinion that turning the men of our society to having a martial heritage will instil discipline and pride in Singaporeans and make us more resilient.
However,all the data that I have access to seems to indicate that Singaporeans may not have the necessary core values needed to make the transformation into a warrior sociey.Straddling a trade route,we have a chinese majority that focuses mainly on education,business and trade.Chinese traditionally do not have a high opinion of soldiering unlike the malay,north indian and nepalese cultures.I feel that being in a historically strife torn region of the world,we should go all out to achieve a balance of a trading and military culture,to protect ourselves and to ensure our strategic interests are protected.To this end,ensuring that our society had two ends of the spectrum would lead to a stratification of our society,a creation of a caste system.This could have dire consequences on our society if this ever occured.Of course there could be errors in my argument and anybody who find them please point them out.
I am Singaporean,not Chindian,not anything else.Our country is our home and even with all its imperfections and its darkness,even with its slightly oppressive government,truly the most benevolent dictatorship in the world,even with all its bad qualities and ugly portions of its population,I would die for it.For as all men of Singapore,for at least 2 years we are warriors and for those who have finished NS,you once were warriors.As warriors,it is our duty to defend our home and protect it,to protect our families,our culture,to protect those who deserve life.It is our blood that will shield our people,our Singaporean people against any who seek to dominate us. -
hmm. there seem to be quite a few Dune junkies here.Originally posted by Groovee:hoho. the sardaukar are good. the fremen are better! only the best survive in the worst environment.
sorry for the crappy post. 
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by this - are you saying that we would have two castes, one being the traders and the other being the warriors? In such a case, who would sit higher in the caste system?Originally posted by Sardaukar:To this end,ensuring that our society had two ends of the spectrum would lead to a stratification of our society,a creation of a caste system.This could have dire consequences on our society if this ever occured.
One key issue to be considered here is that Singapore is a nation of migrants. This has two implications. First, there is the question of whether Singaporeans will continue to be migrants - this could be a real concern, as evidenced by the famous "quitters and stayers" episode.
Second, being comprised of a mix of cultures, rather than being made of an indigenous people, would we expect everybody to band together? The one example that comes to mind is America. On one hand, they all joined in to fight in WW2. On the other hand, look at the backlash in Vietnam.
One difference between the two wars was the assumptions of the prevailing culture. In Band of Brothers, one of the interviewees (I can't remember who it was right now) said, "In my town, there were four guys who they killed themselves because they were 4F - it was a different time". In Vietnam, burning of draft cards was almost the thing to do. The other key difference is, of course, Pearl Harbour - the people responded to being attacked. In Vietnam, the situation was so far removed from the people America's participation in the war was seen as pointless.
So as I see it, the questions for Singapore would be:
a) does the culture provide the people with drive to get into the fight, in the right circumstances and;
b) what are those right circumstances - could we be pulled into an offshore war that serves our strategic interests (perhaps another Domino Theory scenario)? -
Will we equate a 'Warrior Culture' with 'Martial Culture' - or perhaps the 'Martial' part is an offspring of the 'Warrior Culture' ?
Does having a 'Warrior Culture' require us to be belligerent ?
If it does, then we have quite a number of belligerent citizens with very short fuses - judging by the road rage, bullies in school, fights at night spots - and all over very trivial matters.
Fortunately, I prefer to see a 'Warrior Culture' as being - 'belligerent with Honor'.
The honorable aspects of a 'Warrior Instinct' is innate in most of us, as we cannot tolerate injustice, and will feel indignant with the trampling of weaker people.
It is encouraging that there had been good response from NSF and Regular SAF Personnels, when the call was made for a team to serve as Peace Keeping Force in Timor Leste.
Some had returned, and volunteered for a second tour of duty.
Besides the SAF, we have also the Police Force that regularly send volunteers to serve in troubled spots, when the UN call us for contribution in manpoer. Some are presently serving in Timor Leste, Somalia and Iraq.
Although some may see the attitude of NS men during their first 2 years of National Service, it is encouraging to see those having gone through ten years of National Service, becoming mature in attitude, motivated in executing their roles, and understanding the significance of NS - which they had viewed poorly many years earlier in their youth.
This is the strength of an Army based on National Service.
There is hope for a 'Warrior Culture' to develop amongst Singaporean, as the 'Pride in Serving to Protect the Weak' exist amongst many of us. -
dought so... Sad to say, 98% of the people around me are'quitters'. They will have all kind of reasons to leave Singapore.
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Try to be more generous with your friends by giving them the benefit of your better opinion.Originally posted by Airborne Guards:dought so... Sad to say, 98% of the people around me are'quitters'. They will have all kind of reasons to leave Singapore.
Perhaps their departure is due to their inability to tolerate any further the situation in Singapore.
They maybe able to help Singapore better by seeing the external world and gain new experience that will help Singapore in the long run - eventually.
Everthing will come back in one full circle.
The Planets will always revolve around the Sun. -
In addition to us (Chinese) lacking the cultural traits for warriorism, look at your average Singaporean, do they fight to the death for what they believe in? They whine and bitch (like in this forum) and then fall in line. Heroism on a philisophical scale does not exist here.
I draw reference to "We were soldiers..Young". The Americans dont have a warrior culture but on the macro level, they do believe in giving up their lives for a cause - check out the various movements (bad or good) in their past and present history.
So, gentleman, I say if society as a whole can evolve, there is no chance that Singapore will breed a warrior class in the military sense. -
Thanks for your responses guys.Honestly,I find that many of my fellow Singaporeans are indeed whiners.Many,not most,not all.They just take things as they are and accept them.While this is not necessarily bad,having a "live and let live" attitude given the politics of our country which are still based on fear.Honestly,I wish our royal familys head man LKY would die or at least retire.He has done a lot of good for the country and laid a good foundation but in the long term he has to go or we will stagnate.He belongs in the history of Singapore.
Anyway,for a definition of warrior culture I refer to having a culture that respects the military career and has mutual respect for soldiers and business people,respect for your values and your profession,basic respect for any human being,as well as martial values such as discipline,endurance,pride(not arrogance) and others tt come along with them.From my view,we have a natural warrior race in the Sikhs and Malays.
Re. the caste system.I guess theres no easy answer to that.Maybe continue national service to show what other people what the soldiers go through,training to defend them.Anyway,in the Singapore context most males are soldiers so there is no big prob of integrating that with a trading caste or worker caste. it would benefit the country to have a trained reservist corp available for callup.It would not be such a burden on the economy.
Off topic though,don't most people realise that we r pretty much abandoning Taiwan.Ex Starlight is probably being moved to India,given that last year we signed that agreement with them.it benefits us to get closer to both emerging powers,India and China.The SAF was looking for a place to shift to from Taiwan and we signed the deal with India,so dun be surprised if the nex batch of trainess ends up destoying coconut trees and dancing aroud nthem with pretty indian girls. -
Starlight move to India?
Then it must be called Nolight. (cos all dark ma.) -
Wah piang!
That is super lame man.Pls,dun post another joke like that.So if we transferred to Hainan it would be yellow light issit? -
Nah..when our troops train in San Francisco..it'll be called Ex.PurpleLight
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you cant have warrior culture without a war...
in peace.. warriors are jobless... who wanna be poor warrior in peace time?
only when there is a prolong war... or conflict would warriors be needed...
but then... with so much advances in military technologies... warriors like RAMBO are nothing more then circus clown...
future "warriors" in a prolonged conflicts would be the engineers, Computer programmers and Biotechnologist who with knowledge.. can bring ANY country to its knees....
do singapore have such future warriors?? -
America is NOT revered as a global military powers becuase they got thoudsands of RAMBOs... but because they got MILLIONS of scientist working to provide US with cutting edge advance military technologies..
America deterence does not depend on more then half of their servicemen who failed their IPPT.. but becuase NO ONE knows what other super weapons or technologies that american scientist are churning out in their laboratory. -
What are you babbling on about? Are the Gurkhas or the Sikhs at war? And if you believe in Rambo, I'd suggest you try taking a look past your TV once in a while.Originally posted by tripwire:you cant have warrior culture without a war... -
is that so... why dont you ask the gurkas and sikhs what is warrior culture in their definition and what are the motives behind their developement of a warrior culture... if there is one.
if warrior culture was not created out of need or prolonged conflict... dont tell me they created it for arts.
where would your warrior stand in your opinion? if not in conflict.. dont tell me in padi field.... -
Check your facts: the military link between the Gurkhas and the British (who are in fact their employers, just in case you were ignorant of the fact) came directly as the result of the Anglo Nepalese War. While the war itself went from 1814 to 1816, the Gurkhas had sufficiently impressed their British opponents by the time Amar Singh Thapa surrendered west of the Kali in 1815, and that's the way it's been ever since.Originally posted by tripwire:if warrior culture was not created out of need or prolonged conflict... dont tell me they created it for arts....
1 year - you call that prolonged? Well, maybe in your book - from the sounds of it, you would call half a day at a draughtsman's table somewhere in Boeing's offices a knock-down-drag-out-fight.
Need? The Gurkhas don't need to be warriors, and haven't had to since 1815 - except for that one year, they've always been mercenaries.
Uh, I know you said not to tell you, but yeah, they would. The Gurkhas were historically a farming culture before 1815, and the Kukri is in fact a scythe.Originally posted by tripwire:where would your warrior stand in your opinion? if not in conflict.. dont tell me in padi field....
I'd call it quits if I were you - every second word you say just adds to your display of ignorance. Odd for someone who doesn't like "RAMBOS". -
Warrior culture ??? More like shopping culture you mean !
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the war between the gurkas and the brits is but a single event...Originally posted by Gedanken:Uh, I know you said not to tell you, but yeah, they would. The Gurkhas were historically a farming culture before 1815, and the Kukri is in fact a scythe.
I'd call it quits if I were you - every second word you say just adds to your display of ignorance. Odd for someone who doesn't like "RAMBOS".
single event do not always leads to a conclusion.
you have to see beyond that single event and look at all the events that ever occured from past to present.
a culture is not shaped in an instant..... it is shaped through time, history, circumstances and the accumulation of experience... there is no express lane.