Typhoon out?
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As most of you would have already realise that the Eurofighter Typhoon will not be coming for the Asian Aerospace except for a full scale replica.However,the F-15 and Rafale will be here for an air show. Does this means that the Typhoon is out of the race to replace our A4 Super skyhawks? I come to this conclusion because they may no longer be intrested in the deal with Singapore and thus the lack of intrest in provided a real plne for the exhibition.
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the B-1 is here, so are we interested in the B-1 then?
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It does not mean anything, the Typhoon never flies anyway except Farnborough and Le Bourget.
It's been Eurofighter's policy for years not to send the aircraft to Singapore Aerospace. Just a stupid mock-up.
Anyway, Rafale F3 development contract has been signed last week, finally securing the final a2g upgrades for the plane. For the Typhoon well the member countries are again rumoured to be reducing their orders, so I think you can forget about having significant a2g capabilities on that plane in time for Singapore requirements.
Bottom line is... go for Rafale.
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I just got a feeling that they are aiming for the F15s.
do they cost cheaper due to so so many already being produced? -
My personal opinion is that the RSAF will go for a new generation plane such as the Rafale and that Typhoon instead of the F-15s. Reason being that the F-15s are almost near to the end of further upgrades or developments as compared to a new plane which have lots more developmental potential. This is because, Singapore will almost always do upgrades or modification to the aircraft being bought. Examples:F-16A/B,F-5S,A-4SU etc. We are also providing the service of upgrading planes for other countries such as the F-5s for the ROC airforce. Therefore, i predict that RSAF will choose a new geneartion plane for its latest technology and also for the prospect of making money out of upgrading and modifying planes for other countries in the future. My bet is the Typhoon because of the numerous orders and its state of the art technology such as voice controlled instruments in the cockpit.Thanks
PS; the B-1B is NOT short-listed for the current replacement for the A-4SU unlike the Typhoon,Rafale and F-15s. Therefore there is totally NO chance of us getting the B-1Bs any time soon,right? -
I personally feel that the B1-B will be 'given' free to RSAF and based in Changi. They will replace the S211s
as they can now conduct flying classes in sizes of 30s.
ST Aerospace is now configuring ejections seats to fit into the bomb bays. BTW they eject towards the ground......
so there will be additional savings as there's no requirements for zero zero ejection.
F-15 is actually more flexible to upgrades as it has the biggest airframe of all three contenders. No need to take out one 20mm gun
for extra mission computer like in F5 etc.
F-15 actually uses engines of the same core as that of the F-16s.
F-15 has evolved from a pure interceptor into a true multi-role figther.
Rafale and Typhoon MAY have more advanced black boxes and weapons integrated......but FOR AN INTERIM SOLUTION it's a bloody waste of money!
So too for the F-15!
In the end there can only be one answer -> more F-16s.
The only thing that ground the F-16 is engine trouble like the blade problem in the JT-15 turbofan of the S211.......
This you can avoid as the F-16 has a dual engine bay.
The fuselage problem can be avoided if you stagger the flying hours through careful planning.
Money saved can then be deposited in my savings account.
Ok, I'll share it with Renci - only because Kym Ng doesn't belong in a crash helmet!. -
wow.... you are really living in Fairyland
which variant of F-16 has dual engine bays? I'll ask the LMTAS representative at AA2004 to show me some brochures of it this Thursday -
According to Show Daily, one of the mags I picked up today at AA2004, one article stated that the Typhoon will "undertake more than 100 hours of flying, as part of this activity (referring to the system evaluation flights by RSAF for each of the contender aircraft), most of it in Singapore later this year."
Also, Mark Ritson, BAE Systems Director of Marketing Communications Asia, said, "we are delighted that Typhoon will be making its first ever Asia appearance in the skies over Singapore later this year...."
So it'll be coming after all, but not now.... -
Dassault and Boeing have announced that they will be sticking around after the AA2004 is over to "proof" that their birds can adapt well to local tropical weather. Dassault says they will be bringing in a single seater Rafale to complement the twin-sitter and Boeing says two F15s will remain behind and follow suit.
BAe says that a real Eurofighter will be making its maiden voyage out from European skies this late June to July and I think will most probably carry out similar flight evaluation trials like the F15 and Rafale. That is, if they really decide to come. -
Source : Strait Times (Note: Aisa1 Web Link available for only 3 days
Battle' in the sky for $2b Mindef deal
F-15 Strike Eagle and Dassault Rafale to take part in intensive flight trials after airshow to prove the planes work well in S'pore weather
By David Boey
DON'T be surprised to see warplanes like the F-15 Strike Eagle or Dassault Rafale roaring through Singapore skies weeks after the Asian Aerospace airshow winds up this weekend.
These jet fighters, flown here for the airshow, will remain for flight tests, part of the last few rounds left in a three-cornered battle with the Eurofighter Typhoon for a $2-billion deal to replace Singapore's ageing A-4 Super Skyhawks.
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During the trials, the new fighters are expected to be pitted against front-line aircraft of the Republic of Singapore Air Force (RSAF), like the F-16C/D and upgraded F-5 Tiger II.
The Defence Ministry told The Straits Times yesterday that 20 new fighters will be bought in two batches once a decision is made next year. 'In the first stage, we intend to acquire between eight and 12 aircraft, with the remainder to be acquired over the subsequent five years,' said a spokesman.
Defence contractors vying for the deal are pulling out all the stops for what could well be the last major fighter deal in the Asia-Pacific this decade.
Mindef's evaluation is now at a crucial stage. The upcoming flight tests are designed in part to convince Mindef that the warplanes work as advertised in Singapore weather.
As such, French defence contractor Dassault is sending a single-seat Rafale to join the twin-seater already here, for the intensive flight trials lasting about three weeks.
Two F-15s are also expected to remain here for similar trials.
The Typhoon could not make it down for the airshow, as the few Typhoons produced are still being evaluated by air forces in Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain, explained a BAE Systems spokesman. But it will be seen over Singapore skies around June for the trials, in its first trip outside Europe.
He said: 'While we would be delighted to see Europe's newest swing role combat aircraft displaying alongside established airshow stalwarts such as F-16, F-15 and Rafale, our priorities must lie with the evaluation programme.'
At the airshow yesterday, the marketing men from three companies were hard at work. Mr Thomas Lillis, Asia-Pacific director of Boeing's integrated defence system, minced no words when he said the F-15 was clearly superior to its rivals and 'has proven itself in combat'. He said 48 F-15s destroyed 60 per cent of Saddam Hussein's elite Republican Guard division during the Iraq war last year.
Selling the F-15's range and speed, he added: 'We're faster, we go farther and we carry more (weapons)... From a customer who wants to use this airplane either as a deterrent or in actual combat, it's pretty lethal.'
The Typhoon may not be battle-tested, but its makers hope to swing the deal by pledging that 'export customers' may be allowed to make certain components of the plane.
'We're prepared to give a full technology transfer,' said Mr Mike Rouse, group marketing director at BAE Systems, who explained that this sweetener would bring top-tier aerospace know-how to the customer's aviation industry.
The significance of deal sweeteners has not been lost on the French, who have indicated that Singapore could develop an advanced radar for the Rafale - if it bought the aircraft.
Other incentives would include greater access to air force training areas in France, where an RSAF A-4 training squadron is already based.
Mindef's intention to announce a winner next year means Asian Aerospace 2004 will be the last chance for the three plane makers to woo the home crowd.
The result: four F-15 Strike Eagles at the airshow (the largest ever contingent of F-15s at the event), piles of colourful warplane posters, glossy brochures, CDs with plane images, and an assortment of aircraft keepsakes like pins, caps, badges and scarfs to keep souvenir hunters happy.
The Rafale and F-15 will also take to the skies off Changi Point during the airshow's daily aerial display to show off their manoeuvrability. Catch them between 11.30am and 1pm till Saturday and between 11.30am and 1.10pm on Sunday. -
heh heh heh.......I was trying to say that the F-16 (don't remember which block number) is designed to accept two engine types (can't remember which one tooOriginally posted by SlowPoke:wow.... you are really living in Fairyland
which variant of F-16 has dual engine bays? I'll ask the LMTAS representative at AA2004 to show me some brochures of it this Thursday 
).
So it's possible to have F-16s running two engine types - to address the technical issue of over reliance on one platform.
To start a whole new ILS for a completely new aircraft.......with 1st order of 8 and a final(?) requirement for ONLY 20......
Who's really in fairyland($$$)?
Well maybe you can do it if you ride on one existing ILS like the F-16A/Bs was tapping into USAF's in the early days. So the STRONG case for F-15s.
If you really HAVE to spend, I think Singapore should help protect monetarism and improved the US trade deficit by buying F-15.
At least it won't be such a waste of money! -
the part about asking for brochures is pure sarcasm. I'm sorry you cannot pick up on it.
The F-16C/D Block 52 is offered to the customer with a choice of either a General Electric F110-GE-129 or Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 engine. In our case, we selected the Pratt & Whitney engines. The aircraft are then bulit to use the engine type selected by the customer, as either engines have different plumbing. That means a Pratt & Whitney engined jet cannot easily accept a GE engine without a masive rebuild. We can either buy more F100 spare engines but its not feasible to buy spare GE engines. -
i feel eurofighter shld be bought. it looks better and to me better performance than f15 though f15 is combat proven,
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apperantly the eurofighter aint here flying because the specially designed 1 for Singapore aint ready to fly yet.....they still assembling it.....
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Hey I get it ......Originally posted by SlowPoke:the part about asking for brochures is pure sarcasm. I'm sorry you cannot pick up on it.
The F-16C/D Block 52 is offered to the customer with a choice of either a General Electric F110-GE-129 or Pratt & Whitney F100-PW-229 engine. In our case, we selected the Pratt & Whitney engines. The aircraft are then bulit to use the engine type selected by the customer, as either engines have different plumbing. That means a Pratt & Whitney engined jet cannot easily accept a GE engine without a masive rebuild. We can either buy more F100 spare engines but its not feasible to buy spare GE engines.
What I'm actually proposing as an alternative to NGF is have a mixed fleet of F-16s....since present fleet is on PWs we should increase more new F-16s with GEs
Much more cost effective than getting a new aircraft altogether not to mention getting a VIRGIN NEW European one!
We ran the A-4s for almost 30 years! We can do it again with the F-16s too. By then the JSFs would be coming into service.
I don't know what's happening in 'Fairyland'......
Once they were more careful with spending .....T-33s, S-211s, Cougars instead of Blackhawks, F-5s instead of F4s, 2nd hand A4s and then the upgrading with F404s are all good decisions with emphasis on getting maximum value for the buck.
Today we want Starship Enterprise if there's one on the market!
What, SAF just found oil somewhere in Singapore or East Timor?!!!
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Again its not cost effective to have a fleet of F-16s of which half running on PW engines and the other half GE engines, then you'll have to setup two different sets of Intermediate level engine workshops and either train two groups of technicians to service each engine type. You must keep in mind of the logistical requirements, its not as easy as buying a car.
p.s. The government need not find oil, they just have to increase the GST -
no way f-15...it got 2 rear tail wing..
what do u call it that anyway...
Sin AF do not have any plane like that but our neighbour have....
all along we been buying plane with single rear tail wing... -
Ahem, there is oil in East Timor. To be more precise in the economic zone of the waters around East Timor.
That area is also claimed by Australia.
Why do think the Ozzies are so interested in East Timor? Other than it is in their backyard. -
This time round, the ADF really showed their 'value' in protecting the economic interests. If not wrong, it didn't cost them much too.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:Ahem, there is oil in East Timor. To be more precise in the economic zone of the waters around East Timor.
That area is also claimed by Australia.
Why do think the Ozzies are so interested in East Timor? Other than it is in their backyard.
Better than OIF......
Do you think Singapore's going to get a piece of the pie or are si it just the F111 show only?