OPEN SECRET
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hi all,
i'm new here......a military enthusiast...can anyone pls verify the following below ...it's an open secret right ?? --------->
if northern malaysia was penetrated, singapore will mobolise their army at muar (with or without malaysia's permission) . this is to protect their water supply resources and prevent further intrusion into Singapore..
true or false ?
thanks!! -
please elaborate on who, what, why and where do you mean by IF nothern malaysia is penetrated.
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we got army in muar meh??? how many??? haha from my rece in m'sia... sg army will only go for high valued target... coz the country is too big for our BIG army to attack already lah... we confirm can win the fight but holding it is another thing........
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back in the 80s during the cold war period, vietnam was the common enemy of singapore and malaysia. i once read a defense book which quote the then defense minister goh chok tong as saying that if foreign troops were to land on the beaches of kota tingi, singapore will send troops to defend malaysia whether invited or not. at that time a threat of invasion from vietnam exists as they were also in cambodia.
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Not only was Vietnam's military adventurism a concern, but during the 1960s till the 1970s, the bigger threat was Communism supported by ideologically belligerant Russia and China.Originally posted by cavsg:back in the 80s during the cold war period, vietnam was the common enemy of singapore and malaysia. i once read a defense book which quote the then defense minister goh chok tong as saying that if foreign troops were to land on the beaches of kota tingi, singapore will send troops to defend malaysia whether invited or not. at that time a threat of invasion from vietnam exists as they were also in cambodia.
More importantly, the bigger threat was an ambitiously ideological China under Mao Tse Tung, with his passion for continuous revolution.
China under his leadership had a whoppingly huge army that easily can roll over the weaker countries of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and down into Peninsular Malaysia.
The USA had feared this 'Domino Effect' from the Communist in dominating South-east Asia, with the strategic location of Singapore as the Main Prize. -
hi tripwire,Originally posted by tripwire:please elaborate on who, what, why and where do you mean by IF nothern malaysia is penetrated.
pls refer to cavsg's post. that's what i was trying to say.
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I-like-flings(m),Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):we got army in muar meh??? how many??? haha from my rece in m'sia... sg army will only go for high valued target... coz the country is too big for our BIG army to attack already lah... we confirm can win the fight but holding it is another thing........
miscommunication....what i'm trying to say is if other nations penetrate into malaysia from the top (north), singapore will not wait for malaysia to fall and defend herself at the border. instead, with or without msia's permission, singapore will advance right up to muar to protect its water supply resources as well as to prevent being cornered off at the border. (eg. it's like painting yourself to 1 corner. so singapore will advance up to msia if they are forced to; to protect itself from being painted to 1 corner...hmm...hope you understand)
of coz singapore dun have army at muar
i'm referring to defending singapore...not attacking malaysia...these are two different views, my friend
peace. -
oic.. refreshing idea.. sorri misunderstand at first... but it will be interesting if sg really do it without m'sia permission... coz if that's the case. u can consider m'sia being invaded by north and south.... so i guess m'sia rather want an allied than a enemy right??Originally posted by atnan:I-like-flings(m),
miscommunication....what i'm trying to say is if other nations penetrate into malaysia from the top (north), singapore will not wait for malaysia to fall and defend herself at the border. instead, with or without msia's permission, singapore will advance right up to muar to protect its water supply resources as well as to prevent being cornered off at the border. (eg. it's like painting yourself to 1 corner. so singapore will advance up to msia if they are forced to; to protect itself from being painted to 1 corner...hmm...hope you understand)
of coz singapore dun have army at muar
i'm referring to defending singapore...not attacking malaysia...these are two different views, my friend
peace. -
ok... so malaysia got wacked...
still must see who is the enemy mah...
if PRC wacks malaysia... i think we wont wanna rush in too soon... we should first call uncle sam.
(me heard PRC getting 3 carriers)
if USA wacks malaysia... me thinks we will sit out the storm... unless america insist we help them kick some butts..
if thailand wacks malaysia... well... as long as thailand dont take out more then half of malaysia.. we probably will just sit sit look look see see lah.
if indonesia wacks malaysia... we will see if MAF can tong or not... if not... too bad lor... worst come to worst we must ally with indonesia and split malaysia 50/50
if india wacks malaysia... we will let president nathan settle it
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I'm not going to say anything as it's OPSEC.
Everything written here is just pure speculation.
HTH. -
In the 1960s was Vietnam powerful enough to conquer the entire South East Asia? I remember i read somewhere that Lee Kwan Yew was afriad that Thailand was not able to hold Vietnam. And Vietnam's army would just march all the way to Singapore.Originally posted by Atobe:Not only was Vietnam's military adventurism a concern, but during the 1960s till the 1970s, the bigger threat was Communism supported by ideologically belligerant Russia and China.
More importantly, the bigger threat was an ambitiously ideological China under Mao Tse Tung, with his passion for continuous revolution.
China under his leadership had a whoppingly huge army that easily can roll over the weaker countries of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and down into Peninsular Malaysia.
The USA had feared this 'Domino Effect' from the Communist in dominating South-east Asia, with the strategic location of Singapore as the Main Prize.
Is Thailand's army in the 1960s really that lousy? If Vietnam were to invade Thailand in the 1960s would Vietnam win?
China under his leadership had a whoppingly huge army that easily can roll over the weaker countries of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and down into Peninsular Malaysia.
Mainland Chinese keep saying that China is a very peaceful country and would never attack other country.
I know this sound very stupid. If China successfully conquer the entire South East Asia. Would the China's PLA treat overseas Chinese better than their conquered non-Chinese subjects? Would the PLA be more lenient on overseas Chinese living in South East Asia than non-Chinese?
Regarding Singapore. Would Singapore Chinese fight(In the 1960s)? Would the older generation of Singapore Chinese fight against their fellow Chinese or just surrender(I'm sure most of the members here are Singapore Chinese. My grandfather comes from China. In the 1960s he should be very well still alive.)? Would the PLA be more lenient on Singapore than other countries because the majority of Singaporean are Chinese? I'm sure there are some Pro-China Singaporean Chinese.
Sorry if my english is bad. Sorry if this sound stupid. Just thinking what would happen? -
Originally posted by tripwire:ok... so malaysia got wacked...
still must see who is the enemy mah...
if PRC wacks malaysia... i think we wont wanna rush in too soon... we should first call uncle sam. (me heard PRC getting 3 carriers)
if USA wacks malaysia... me thinks we will sit out the storm... unless america insist we help them kick some butts..
if thailand wacks malaysia... well... as long as thailand dont take out more then half of malaysia.. we probably will just sit sit look look see see lah.
if indonesia wacks malaysia... we will see if MAF can tong or not... if not... too bad lor... worst come to worst we must ally with indonesia and split malaysia 50/50
if india wacks malaysia... we will let president nathan settle it 
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all these your business meh
please lah -
isn't it odd that all your scenarios are us vs them... not one suggests that there may be a possibility that we might want to help them preserve their territorial integrity...Originally posted by tripwire:ok... so malaysia got wacked...
still must see who is the enemy mah...
if PRC wacks malaysia... i think we wont wanna rush in too soon... we should first call uncle sam. (me heard PRC getting 3 carriers)
if USA wacks malaysia... me thinks we will sit out the storm... unless america insist we help them kick some butts..
if thailand wacks malaysia... well... as long as thailand dont take out more then half of malaysia.. we probably will just sit sit look look see see lah.
if indonesia wacks malaysia... we will see if MAF can tong or not... if not... too bad lor... worst come to worst we must ally with indonesia and split malaysia 50/50
if india wacks malaysia... we will let president nathan settle it -
we?
preserving their territory integrity 
you gotta be kidding right
and its not a case of us against them
its a case of us taking good care of ourselves..
as the initial poster stated...
"if northern malaysia was penetrated, singapore will mobolise their army at muar (with or without malaysia's permission) . this is to protect their water supply resources and prevent further intrusion into Singapore.. " -
right on.....right on...Originally posted by tripwire:we? preserving their territory integrity
you gotta be kidding right
and its not a case of us against them
its a case of us taking good care of ourselves..
as the initial poster stated...
"if northern malaysia was penetrated, singapore will mobolise their army at muar (with or without malaysia's permission) . this is to protect their water supply resources and prevent further intrusion into Singapore.. " -
Mentioned in the book "Defending the Lion City" the author does talk abt an unwritten view that the SAF's tactical doctrine seemed to hv: That in the event of Islamic Fundamentalists gaining sudden control of Malaysia, either via their elections or by violent means & such factions openly declaring hostilities towards SG, the SAF will indeed advance its forces up to an imaginary line known as the "Mersing Line". Main purpose is to secure SG's water supplies in the Johor State.
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yeah i have read the book B4. but for long can we hold the Mersing Line?Originally posted by True_Atlantean:Mentioned in the book "Defending the Lion City" the author does talk abt an unwritten view that the SAF's tactical doctrine seemed to hv: That in the event of Islamic Fundamentalists gaining sudden control of Malaysia, either via their elections or by violent means & such factions openly declaring hostilities towards SG, the SAF will indeed advance its forces up to an imaginary line known as the "Mersing Line". Main purpose is to secure SG's water supplies in the Johor State. -
as long as it needs be?
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huh is that near to malacca already???? shit maybe mi will be one of those defending that line. haha ..Originally posted by epImetheus:yeah i have read the book B4. but for long can we hold the Mersing Line? -
think we mentioned before in another thread that the last thing in the world we want is to have another "west bank" in our backyard...Originally posted by Groovee:as long as it needs be?
nobody likes to be called away to do reservist guarding water pipes in johore... no fun...
and in the aftermaths of war, who's to say that the original disruption hasn't already ruined the economy?
so the OPEN SECRET actually, is to posture but hopefully, NEVER to fight cos there can be no winners in a situation like that.
just hope that no maniac decides to call that bluff cos its just not gonna be pleasant for everybody... -
Originally posted by want to know:
The Communist North Vietnam was more interested in reuniting the entire Vietnam than foreign military adventures, as Vietnam was divided into North and South by external imposed decisions.
In the 1960s was Vietnam powerful enough to conquer the entire South East Asia? I remember i read somewhere that Lee Kwan Yew was afriad that Thailand was not able to hold Vietnam. And Vietnam's army would just march all the way to Singapore.
See the following site for a full synopsis of events that led to the Vietnam Conflict :-
http://sophia.smith.edu/~abloomga/Breorweb01/warstudy/VIETNAM.htmlcontinuing post by want to know:
During the Vietnam War, Thailand had contributed troops to support the US military and political involvement in Vietnam, as both countries were part of the South East Asian Treaty Organisation (SEATO), similar to NATO in the northern hemisphere to protect Northern Atlantic and Europe.
Is Thailand's army in the 1960s really that lousy? If Vietnam were to invade Thailand in the 1960s would Vietnam win?
The Thai Army fought well during actions in Vietnam, and if they are called to defend their own homeland, the Thai Army will be even more ferocious and more willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.
Vietnam was supported by Russia and China; while Thailand had the political and military support of USA, and SEATO.
Both Vietnam and Thailand were proxies of the Communist and the Capitalist Systems respectively, in a contest of idealogies to win political and territorial influence - and was part of the Geo-Politics of the 1950s.
During the 1960s, Vietnam's military was not as developed as the Thai Military, which had a well equipped and well trained organisation of General Staff, Artillery, Infantry, Armor, Field Engineering, Medic, Army Air Wing, and a potent Air Force to match.
Vietnam's military was largely infantry and artillery, and an impotent Air Force that was unable to threaten the USAF.
The actions of the Thai Military in the Vietnam War were documented in military research works, one of which can be read from the following site:
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/Vietnam/allied/index.htm
For more understanding of SEATO, try this site:
http://www.adam-matthew-publications.co.uk/collect/p149.htmcontinuing post by want to know:
Mainland Chinese keep saying that China is a very peaceful country and would never attack other country.
[quote]China under his leadership had a whoppingly huge army that easily can roll over the weaker countries of Laos, Cambodia, Thailand, and down into Peninsular Malaysia.
I know this sound very stupid. If China successfully conquer the entire South East Asia. Would the China's PLA treat overseas Chinese better than their conquered non-Chinese subjects? Would the PLA be more lenient on overseas Chinese living in South East Asia than non-Chinese? [/quote]
China made an unprovoked attack against Vietnam during the late 1979, when Vietnam invaded and refused to withdraw from Cambodia - which is a client state of China.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/war/prc-vietnam.htm
Will China's PLA treat overseas Chinese better than their conquered non-Chinese subject, or will the PLA be more lenient on overseas Chinese living in S.E.Asia than non-Chinese ?
You will have to look at how the PLA treated their own Citizens at the Tian An Men incident.
In the Communist system, they trust no one.
There is a Political Commisar that has the final say in the manner that a Field General plan any military action; and the system still exist to the present day - (a curse from being influenced by the Russian Communist Ideologies)
There is always someone watching over someone else, and the population is rewarded for spying on their neighbors.
Constant revolution is the ideal to maintain the purity of the Communist Ideology, as Mao Tse Tung believe that when a state of static should happen, the revolution momentum will be lost, and will allow communism to be corrupted by other ideologies.
This belief from Mao resulted in the wasteful destruction imposed onto China during his encouragement of the Cultural Revolution.
http://www-chaos.umd.edu/history/prc3.htmlcontinuing post by want to know:
You will have to ask your parents, who probably will be around during that period of the 1960s, and enquire from them if they would have fought for Singapore.
Regarding Singapore. Would Singapore Chinese fight(In the 1960s)? Would the older generation of Singapore Chinese fight against their fellow Chinese or just surrender(I'm sure most of the members here are Singapore Chinese. My grandfather comes from China. In the 1960s he should be very well still alive.)? Would the PLA be more lenient on Singapore than other countries because the majority of Singaporean are Chinese? I'm sure there are some Pro-China Singaporean Chinese.
Sorry if my english is bad. Sorry if this sound stupid. Just thinking what would happen?
From historical records, there were Singaporeans who felt that it was their duty to stand up and defend Singapore against the Japanese Invasion.
Some of the heroes in the defense of Singapore included Singapore Malays, Indians, Eurasians, Chinese, English, Aussies; as well as the same ethnic groups from Peninsula Malaya.
One of the famous Singapore son was Lim Bo Seng, who gave his life for Singapore; and a Selangor born Malay heroically defending the hills of Pasir Panjang till his last breath in the name of Lt Adnan Saidi.
Lim Bo Seng Memorial
http://www.s1942.org.sg/ww2links.htm
Lt Adnan Saidi
http://menj.tripod.com/Pejuang_Bangsa/lt_adnan.htm
WW2 Sites
http://www.s1942.org.sg/ww2links.htm -
singapore may only consider taking action when the water supply from johor gets cut off.anyway singapore got so secret hidden reservoirs so we can stil last for quite a while provided we dont bathe.
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Thanks Atobe for the information and the links.
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WAH. Touchy subject. I have to say, the following is my own opinion.
Whether SG would advance into M'sia to either aid in her defense, or just to secure her own resources are not mutually exclusive events. DUH. To not move in to aid M'sia in her defense is to abandon these resources completely.
Then comes the issue of being invited or not. If we are able to justify that these resources are our national interests, we should be able to do so without kenaing too much repercussions from the international community.
And think about it this way, why would M'sia refuse military aid if we were to offer them? We can supply them logistically, and provide additional security forces to their interests, enabling them to focus their forces on offensive operations.
This is all assuming that Singapore and M'sia are not actually against each other in the conflict.