Cost of defence crippling: DSTA
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Cost of defence crippling: DSTA (reported in Today Feb 26 2004)
THE cost of buying military equipment and maintaining military capabilities is rising and is becoming increasingly unaffordable for Singapore, warned senior officers from the Defence Science and Technology Agency (DSTA) yesterday.
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"Unless this problem is tackled, we will not be able to afford many new systems," said Mr Soh Kong Pheng, the DSTA's deputy chief executive of operations, at the Asian Aerospace 2004 show.
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One reason for the high expenditure is the cost of operating and supporting the equipment, which can be more than twice the purchase price, said DSTA deputy director Lee Wee Khong. Which means, for example, the planned purchase of new fighter aircraft, reputed to be worth $1 billion, could incur another $2 billion.
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This is why the DSTA, Singapore's defence procurement agency, has told competing suppliers to minimise the up-front expenditure and suggest support concepts for spares and maintenance.
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It has also tried to be cost effective by keeping price and technical proposals separate, so that the price is only known after the technical benefits have been assessed. "Then, the system with the best benefit-cost ratio will be selected," Mr Lee told industry suppliers.
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Even low-value purchases take their toll on military expenditure. Items such as stationery, photocopies and electrical appliances as well as camp maintenance cost the Singapore Armed Forces up to $60 million a year. — Derrick A Paulo
Hmmm...somethings gotta give eventually. -
The budget ....
Word is that several projects are being canned..
A sign of how serious it is...
Toner requisitions are being turned down by QM. Why? NO budget.
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Wonder just how serious the problem is. In such a climate, low-profile essential items may not stand a chance against big-ticket platforms. Consider ST Engg, which employs a sizable pool of ex-senior military officers in its sales team...they would surely bring their ties and influence to bear upon military purchases. Let alone, former officers in the admin service
Hope we may avoid the kind of 'congressional-military-industrial' complex seen in the US where even army units don't have the budget to buy blanks for field exercises. -
they are cutting down alot on day to day small ticket items.Originally posted by Johnston:The budget ....
Word is that several projects are being canned..
A sign of how serious it is...
Toner requisitions are being turned down by QM. Why? NO budget. -
The most important thing is to trim waste, eg. duplicate stuffs, nice to have, but never to save money on necessities.Originally posted by wuming78:they are cutting down alot on day to day small ticket items.
Building our own defence capabilities are also essential cost savings measure, take the Swedes and Israelis as examples. If ST Aero can build guided munition, why need to buy from the US? -
Can, throw enuff money at the problem, sooner or later we also can build nukes one
. The thing is, how much money do we have to design it, test it, then finally build it? At what quantities are we buying it? Cost effective or not, when compared to buying a similar system from overseas. If it's not, is the extra money spent worth it, in terms of getting the expertise to design and build it in-house? But I think that designing a guidance kit like the JDAM should be quite manageable for DSTA.
As for money, I say they gotta use money with their brains. Serious. SAF no brains one. Everywhere you go in the camp can see evidence. One example: In OETI, got one BIG plasma screen, very chio, sure cost more than 20,000 dollars when it was bought. What was its main purpose? For show. Wayang to Defense Minister when he come visit the place when it was opened. Wayang over liao, so to justify its purpose, everyday display RO (!) on the Plasma TV for us to read. (dont know whether this stupid practice still on or not, been 1 year when left OETI) Computers got moniter right? Can use normal 17 inch CRT display dont want, they wanna use LCD display.
Now in workshop, when indent spares, or get wuotes from contractors, I see the prices.... Whoa! SAF really know how to kena kotok.
See the prices they charge, dont know whether to laugh or cry. No wonder my parent's taxes so high.
Go cookhouse, eat the food. Food cannot make it. Wuantity cannot make it. How much they charge? Something like 5+ per meal. I can get more and better food than that for $3. Kena kotok by SFI.
SAF can change to SKF already la. Singapore Kotok Force. Except its the one kena kotok only...... -
Well, thats very true.Lots of prices I see in quotes by MACs for repairs are simply mind -boggling..you do not need to have worked in related fields in the private sector to know that these are inflated figures.As for what you mentioned about OETI, the LCD monitors are not value-added for the lectures are useless when we are posted to our units , because thats where we learn the real stuff..I mean , for a place where a small morsel is given for tasting, a normal CRT monitor would do well.I really hope there won't be a rise in vested interests dictating what we do with our hard-earned tax money.
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That's because when you do business with the government, they always pay late, want all sorts of conditions that your other customers don't need etc.
Of course price will go up what... As SAF to can it's idiotic purchasing policy and PAY UP ON TIME!Originally posted by YourFather:Now in workshop, when indent spares, or get wuotes from contractors, I see the prices.... Whoa! SAF really know how to kena kotok. See the prices they charge, dont know whether to laugh or cry. No wonder my parent's taxes so high. -
This flow of ex-staff officers into ST Engg is distorting the 'strategic partnership' with the SAF........Originally posted by IAF:Wonder just how serious the problem is. In such a climate, low-profile essential items may not stand a chance against big-ticket platforms. Consider ST Engg, which employs a sizable pool of ex-senior military officers in its sales team...they would surely bring their ties and influence to bear upon military purchases. Let alone, former officers in the admin service
Hope we may avoid the kind of 'congressional-military-industrial' complex seen in the US where even army units don't have the budget to buy blanks for field exercises.
Everyone is on the same railway track! No alternatives but to let the track 'run the course'.........
What then does ST Engg bring into this strategic partnership?
SAF goes "jump" ST Engg says "how high?" and Ah Kong says "how much"
Who's checking Mindef?
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1 word but sound stupid: overbudget
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x2, for those who went thru army would have seen some tremendous amount of wastage at some points, icluding so many wayang stuff like what Yourfather said, as well as holding so many Days, like Safety Day, Anninersaries blah blahOriginally posted by YourFather:Can, throw enuff money at the problem, sooner or later we also can build nukes one . The thing is, how much money do we have to design it, test it, then finally build it? At what quantities are we buying it? Cost effective or not, when compared to buying a similar system from overseas. If it's not, is the extra money spent worth it, in terms of getting the expertise to design and build it in-house? But I think that designing a guidance kit like the JDAM should be quite manageable for DSTA.
As for money, I say they gotta use money with their brains. Serious. SAF no brains one. Everywhere you go in the camp can see evidence. One example: In OETI, got one BIG plasma screen, very chio, sure cost more than 20,000 dollars when it was bought. What was its main purpose? For show. Wayang to Defense Minister when he come visit the place when it was opened. Wayang over liao, so to justify its purpose, everyday display RO (!) on the Plasma TV for us to read. (dont know whether this stupid practice still on or not, been 1 year when left OETI) Computers got moniter right? Can use normal 17 inch CRT display dont want, they wanna use LCD display.
Now in workshop, when indent spares, or get wuotes from contractors, I see the prices.... Whoa! SAF really know how to kena kotok. See the prices they charge, dont know whether to laugh or cry. No wonder my parent's taxes so high.
Go cookhouse, eat the food. Food cannot make it. Wuantity cannot make it. How much they charge? Something like 5+ per meal. I can get more and better food than that for $3. Kena kotok by SFI.
SAF can change to SKF already la. Singapore Kotok Force. Except its the one kena kotok only......
Wonder why no Wayang Day? -
Thats because everyday IS Wayang DayOriginally posted by laurence82:x2, for those who went thru army would have seen some tremendous amount of wastage at some points, icluding so many wayang stuff like what Yourfather said, as well as holding so many Days, like Safety Day, Anninersaries blah blah
Wonder why no Wayang Day? -
examples of SAF trying to save $:
we ask for mechanical pencils, they give us normal wooden pencils. they say cheaper... BUT they nvr give pencil shapeners... then in the end, use once, then throw aside.
we ask for a certain brand of OHP pens, cos we know they better quality. but they give us another brand, which they say are refillable BUT they nvr give us the refill... -
Hmm... They really need someone to champion Six Sigma there...Originally posted by Nothingie:examples of SAF trying to save $:
we ask for mechanical pencils, they give us normal wooden pencils. they say cheaper... BUT they nvr give pencil shapeners... then in the end, use once, then throw aside.
we ask for a certain brand of OHP pens, cos we know they better quality. but they give us another brand, which they say are refillable BUT they nvr give us the refill... -
Six Sigma?Originally posted by RussianPower:Hmm... They really need someone to champion Six Sigma there...
Jack Welch? -
well. i think we're not that kotok-ed as compared to e US, e las time dey checked e expenditures, or so i read in e newspapers, it cost them US$30K for a toilet seat. go figure.
but of coz, they got trillions of dollars for their military budget. canot compare. they can afford to be kotok-ed more. -
groan! not another corporate buzzword or idea to further emasculate our military. Already military professionals are falling over themselves over wayang like WITS, PRIDE, ISO, TQM..Originally posted by laurence82:Six Sigma?
Jack Welch? -
IAF...dude, if you could really do me this big favour...please identify the source of the newspaper article (ST, Sundaytimes, etc) that you posted, and the page number...I can't find it on the online version and since I'm still overseas, I dun get access to the hard copy. Thanks!Originally posted by IAF:groan! not another corporate buzzword or idea to further emasculate our military. Already military professionals are falling over themselves over wayang like WITS, PRIDE, ISO, TQM.. -
Gladly. http://www.todayonline.com/index_home.htm. Look for Feb 26 issue in the archivesOriginally posted by Tango1:IAF...dude, if you could really do me this big favour...please identify the source of the newspaper article (ST, Sundaytimes, etc) that you posted, and the page number...I can't find it on the online version and since I'm still overseas, I dun get access to the hard copy. Thanks! -
[b]SAF has something called WITS since policemen wear shorts![\b]Originally posted by laurence82:Six Sigma?
Jack Welch?
Yet money going down the drain.......BIG TIME! -
They spend too much time, money and research on making military grade tatical planning telt and related systems lah!
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One of the biggest problem in military is also Generals and Crabbies all attending outside courses in management, computing and stuff.Originally posted by IAF:groan! not another corporate buzzword or idea to further emasculate our military. Already military professionals are falling over themselves over wayang like WITS, PRIDE, ISO, TQM..
All come back with weird ideas.
Even my biz lecturer says not all you can learn in business you can apply in military, Focus and needs are different. -
mindef is one humongous cost centre...albeit a necessary one. Yet with it's ever growing payroll bulge of middle managers and funding for new platforms and systems and their maintenance... spending will go out of control, if it hasn't already
unless we get generous US military aid yearly (like israel), it will be hard for saf to avoid experiencing the cutbacks that european forces are facing now. -
budget is tight because we peg our defence spending at 6% of our GDP. Once the economy goes down hill, 6% can buy u very little compared to the boom period. Coupled with a weak Sing dollar, even worse.
The plasma tv fiasco! Yes, I am very familiar with it. A friend who managed a government building contract once told me how the project manager decided to throw in the plasma because 'got money, spend lor'. Short sighted mentality but a sympton of civil service problems. If a given budget, especially for maintenance is not used up, MOF will reduce the budget in the next financial year. So u see managers scrimp n save in the beginning of the FY, and then spend like mad towards the end. Sometimes I wonder why they just couldnt use better budget / resource mgmt techniques and review the expediture every quarter to ensure money is spend correctly and equally. -
wonder if anyone can remind me of the rationale, if there's ever one, behind the intention to buy the NGF?
Maybe the DSTA official should look at his own house rather than bitching about it to defense contractors who have to cover their own costs and make a profit to stay in business
Has certain press reports trumpeting rsaf as one of the best air force in the region gone into the heads of our military planners ..making them believe that this is a justification to buy those exotic top-of-the-line fighters?
Wouldn't simply going for more f-16s esp the Blk 60 to replace the skyhawks (until the advent of the JSF) have been a more sound decision financially? Is it really necessary to spend more money on going thru' a whole new learning curve?