Singapore's Next Generation Fighter
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Who are the people in the assessment team?? What are their qualifications??
Hi old chap! the pple in the assessment team come from various backgrounds. i cant exactly say who, but pls rest assured that we are all qualified and carefully selected. The team is doing what they can to see which a/c meets our criteria the best. as far as the blue world is concerned the F1 5 is not obselete yet. that is not to say that the EF and Rafale are out of the game. all 3 are very good at what they do, just that some do it better than others.
Just wondering how the selection process works for these guys. Anyone in this forum part of the team??
qnh1101, are you part of that team?? I did know that they rated the performance criteria as #1 and serviceablility and maintainability as # 6.
now, surely, u dun expect an answer to this qns rite?
Must be a lucky bunch to get to crawl around the aircraft, sit in the cockpit and run the systems and having everything you wanted to know explained to you by the vendors themselves and not forgetting the cool hats they give away.
hahahaha... i'll be sure to share this with the others... it's not all that simple or glamarous you know. a lot has to be done and there's a very tight schedule. but yes, u have to crawl around, dig alittle, flip a few switches, push a few buttons etc... mostly, there's alot of back-end analysis... so, not all fun and games, but it's a job and we like what we do. er, no hats tho'
Lets hope they have aptly qualified people to do this job coz they are talking about alot of taxpayers money there.
oh yes, the team is highly qualified and specially chosen...
btw, for those who are interested, do keep a look out for a delta-shaped a/c around PLAB this weekend. nothing sensitive, but the t/o's really cool... -
Hi qnh1011, interesting name, you must be one with some links to the Flight Operations side (pilot etc) of things. Don't figure many laymen to want to choose such a nickOriginally posted by qnh1011:"and other then the 400 ***... we still got hundreds of AIM-9P/J/M plus Sparrow BVR coupled with about 150 AMRAAMs and an unknown number of ***.... "
Just saw this from tripwire...
Hi buddy, there's no need to mention certain figures and assests, especially if the information is classified.
Moderators, should we do something abt this?
Well...that particular info is kind of pushing the lines of the posting guidelines, but the number is public domain info, and there is evidence that hints that the possession of the equipment is true. So I'll allow that -
So it'll be put through it's paces over the weekend like the other contenders when they were here? My contacts and I saw the Rafale flying a lot more often in the 2 weeks after AA2004 than the Eagle, and on weekends too.Originally posted by qnh1011:hahahaha... i'll be sure to share this with the others... it's not all that simple or glamarous you know. a lot has to be done and there's a very tight schedule. but yes, u have to crawl around, dig alittle, flip a few switches, push a few buttons etc... mostly, there's alot of back-end analysis... so, not all fun and games, but it's a job and we like what we do. er, no hats tho'
btw, for those who are interested, do keep a look out for a delta-shaped a/c around PLAB this weekend. nothing sensitive, but the t/o's really cool...
So any truth to the claims in the previous pages that the contender currently here went u/s a couple of times over here already? I know that one went u/s at Akrotiri on its way over and had to be replaced by a 3rd a/c. -
Quite true, I was there myself but it was just making rounds of both high and low flyingOriginally posted by Viper52:So it'll be put through it's paces over the weekend like the other contenders when they were here? My contacts and I saw the Rafale flying a lot more often in the 2 weeks after AA2004 than the Eagle, and on weekends too.
So any truth to the claims in the previous pages that the contender currently here went u/s a couple of times over here already? I know that one went u/s at Akrotiri on its way over and had to be replaced by a 3rd a/c. -
Only in 2008 then it can come backOriginally posted by Viper52:Longbow was only after they faced an intense competition from the Tiger. And it still has the "Kept in US soil till imminent threat against Singapore" clause.
Israel? How much help can they give us, when they don't have the source codes for the APG-63(V)2/3?
Israel has been willing to give us technology to complete with the americans -
We built the boat in Singapore not in their country. Their ppl come to Singapore to pit in the tech unlike jets in their country totallyOriginally posted by Viper52:Yes, yes, it is sure a very big difference
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Sorry my friend, 5 were built here, the first one is in France. Besides the topic brought up by Old Bird is the uncommon language, so if thats the case building 5 ships using plans in French or poor English (as suggested by Old Bird) is more difficult that purely maintaining aircraft in French (which is not the case)Originally posted by sbst275:We built the boat in Singapore not in their country. Their ppl come to Singapore to pit in the tech unlike jets in their country totally -
Actually, its 2006. But AFAIK its just the helicopters, not the radar.Originally posted by sbst275:Only in 2008 then it can come back
Israel has been willing to give us technology to complete with the americans
As for Israel, I take it you mean "compete". Well, no one is trying to compete with them, what Singapore wants to to customise our equipment to use it to its max potential, and that is blocked by the american reluctance over tech transfer.
In the F-16s, Israel can help because it has the source codes, but if we get F-15T with the AESA radars, even Israel can't help, because they don't have the source codes for those, neither are their F-15 nor indigenious radars AESA. -
That's your thinkingOriginally posted by Viper52:Sorry my friend, 5 were built here, the first one is in France. Besides the topic brought up by Old Bird is the uncommon language, so if thats the case building 5 ships using plans in French or poor English (as suggested by Old Bird) is more difficult that purely maintaining aircraft in French (which is not the case)
But, it's best that we make our own ships and ammunition -
Why do you say so for AH64? 2006 is what we have appealed to US GovtOriginally posted by Viper52:Actually, its 2006. But AFAIK its just the helicopters, not the radar.
As for Israel, I take it you mean "compete". Well, no one is trying to compete with them, what Singapore wants to to customise our equipment to use it to its max potential, and that is blocked by the american reluctance over tech transfer.
In the F-16s, Israel can help because it has the source codes, but if we get F-15T with the AESA radars, even Israel can't help, because they don't have the source codes for those, neither are their F-15 nor indigenious radars AESA.
As for F15T, I see....What does Israel got to go with US? They were the ones that helped to upgrade our Tiger II -
That is not my thinking, its a fact. 5 of the frigates are made by ST Marine, DCN in France is building the first. Read this link.Originally posted by sbst275:That's your thinking
But, it's best that we make our own ships and ammunition
Of course its best, but at the same time we muct look if we have the capability and whether is it feasible? -
Where is an over-equipped RSAF (think steroids) going to operate? In peace time, can fly here and there lah, but when hostilities are imminent - what then?
Methinks a blitzkrieg would not be well regarded by the likes of the Bushies and the Rummies (not to mention the Condies and the Colins).
So, no blitzkrieg, do you cow the enemy with the force of your personality?
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We have requested to bring forward to 2006 and it is already approved.Originally posted by sbst275:Why do you say so for AH64? 2006 is what we have appealed to US Govt
As for F15T, I see....What does Israel got to go with US? They were the ones that helped to upgrade our Tiger II
Sheesh...why is it so difficult for you to understand? The Israelis can help us upgrade the F-5 and F-16 because they have the computer source codes for both aircraft. But the F-15T they can't do the same because they don't have the source codes, particularly pertaining to the AESA radar because their F-15s don't have the radar, nor are their own locally built radar AESA sets. -
Off course, majority is made locally still. The first is like a prototype like when Singapore Bus Svs (SBS) introduced its superbus, first was made in UK, subsequently was made in Singapore.Originally posted by Viper52:That is not my thinking, its a fact. 5 of the frigates are made by ST Marine, DCN in France is building the first. Read this link.
Of course its best, but at the same time we muct look if we have the capability and whether is it feasible? -
Did I say the word "I see..."?Originally posted by Viper52:We have requested to bring forward to 2006 and it is already approved.
Sheesh...why is it so difficult for you to understand? The Israelis can help us upgrade the F-5 and F-16 because they have the computer source codes for both aircraft. But the F-15T they can because they don't have the source codes pertaining to the AESA radar.
I'm asking what Israel has got to do with USA?
Anyway, you can't say now. US govt like to give approval in the 11th hr -
Good that you got it. What has Israel to do with the US? Simple, the systems are American supplied, so even the Israelis will need a lot of input from the Americans before the Israelis can weave their magic.Originally posted by sbst275:Did I say the word "I see..."?
I'm asking what Israel has got to do with USA? -
"Hi qnh1011, interesting name, you must be one with some links to the Flight Operations side (pilot etc) of things. Don't figure many laymen to want to choose such a nick"
pls pardon me if i choose to retain some sense of anonymity. i dun think my bosses would appreciate me being here, unless they are already here? anyway, too many of these guys post too much dis-info to the extent that it insults the selection team. so, i hope to dispel some of the fallacies and misconceptions while i can.that particular info is kind of pushing the lines of the posting guidelines, but the number is public domain info, and there is evidence that hints that the possession of the equipment is true. So I'll allow that
well, the debate over "public domain" is rather questionable since RSAF has never gone public with such info... there's a whole lot of unverified reports out there tho'. As for evidence, what evidence? are there any pics/visual sightings of our a/c with such systems? hope not
anyway, we digress. since i'm here, i intend to play by the rules of the game i.e. what ever u guys say, goes. -
So it'll be put through it's paces over the weekend like the other contenders when they were here? My contacts and I saw the Rafale flying a lot more often in the 2 weeks after AA2004 than the Eagle, and on weekends too.
Hi Vip, barring any unforseen circumstances, we do not see any reason why the flights should not continue, albeit with some other control measures in place. Yes, we had to run thru more stuff with the Rafale as compared to the F15 given the fact that we had less data abt the former. but they all did quite well. met some of our expectations, exceeded others and of course some of the hiccups were unforeseen. but that's all part and parcel of such matters... you would know now, wouldn't you? enjoy the weekend!So any truth to the claims in the previous pages that the contender currently here went u/s a couple of times over here already? I know that one went u/s at Akrotiri on its way over and had to be replaced by a 3rd a/c.
let's just say that the aircrew were not too keen to go into the details, but who's to blame them? personally, i think the EF team deserves a pat on the back for accomplishing such a significant landmark achievement. this is afterall, their first mission out of Euro. anyway, got to go soon... it's time for a piss up! -
sbst275: Quite true, I was there myself but it was just making rounds of both high and low flying
ha ha ha! my dear, u do make it sound like we're having a ball of a good time... but nothing could be further from the truth. the rounds are circuits... the highs and lows were merely the different landing profiles... this is getting really good!
btw, which angle were u at? -
sbst275: Israel has been willing to give us technology to complete with the americans
sorrie, can i ask how should i address u? sbst? or sebastian? anyway, i really dun see how israel is to give us what they dun have? i.e. the source codes for the APG-63(V)2/3?
that's the whole prob with dealing with the F15 package, US Congress is unwilling to release the codes to both SIN and Il. so getting the "technology" is going to be rather tricky. we'll have to see how things dvlp over the next few months, incl the US elections. -
Viper52: Sorry my friend, 5 were built here, the first one is in France. Besides the topic brought up by Old Bird is the uncommon language, so if thats the case building 5 ships using plans in French or poor English (as suggested by Old Bird) is more difficult that purely maintaining aircraft in French (which is not the case)
Hahaha, seems like you guys have been very active over the past few hours. Anyway, language is not a real issue. btw, we do send our pple over for courses (AJT, CSC, study awards etc). seriously, pple who cite language as a stumbling block do not know what they are saying... has anyone ever thot how 18 DA trained with the igla or the other ADA units trained with BG and RBS70? what abt our RSN chaps and their subs?
sheesh -
Viper52:
In the F-16s, Israel can help because it has the source codes, but if we get F-15T with the AESA radars, even Israel can't help, because they don't have the source codes for those, neither are their F-15 nor indigenious radars AESA.
touche' touche'... -
But, it's best that we make our own ships and ammunition
true.. and that's one big reason why we need the source codes.. no point developing stuff that we cant integrate or use, agreed? -
Viper52
Sheesh...why is it so difficult for you to understand? The Israelis can help us upgrade the F-5 and F-16 because they have the computer source codes for both aircraft. But the F-15T they can't do the same because they don't have the source codes, particularly pertaining to the AESA radar because their F-15s don't have the radar, nor are their own locally built radar AESA sets.
ah... now i seen where the debate is going...
Sbst, look, i'm not taking sides here, but it is true that w/o the source codes, there is little we can do with other than what is sold to us. The whole point here is we need that bit of treasure to integrate the a/c into our defence needs. The F15 has good attributes and performed well during the trials, but unless the US are prepared to throw in the same deal as their competitiors, i'd say that the deal is still touchy... anyway, it's still too early to say anything. -
SBST:
Off course, majority is made locally still. The first is like a prototype like when Singapore Bus Svs (SBS) introduced its superbus, first was made in UK, subsequently was made in Singapore.
rite... of course... and i'm sure the french are delighted that u compared one of their most advanced designs to a bus... hmmm... is that the popping of champange i hear