Singapore's Next Generation Fighter
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Would you say its the man or the machine that win wars?Originally posted by Fatum:yeah ! ... who'd want to buy weapons of surrender monkeys ? ....
they don't have a history of winning ... but only of making noises at the peace table when others had won their wars for them ...
or they'll get others to do their fighting for them ... (foreign legion) ....
it's probably a good idea NOT to buy the rafale from them .... -
touche,Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Would you say its the man or the machine that win wars?
you got me there ...
okay, i just don't like the french, they still haven't got over their "napoleanisque" foreign policy, they just want to be spoilers on the world stage, and they are certainly no angels, remember the rainbow warrior incident ? ... perhaps most importanly of all, they are irresponsible weapons sellers, they'll sell to anyone and everyone with money ... they sold mirages to taiwan, and they'll happily sell rafales to china too as soon as they suceed in lifting the EU weapons embargo on china -
AYTON, UTAH -- Bill Creeden remembers his first flight in an F-15 Eagle.
"The plane was older than I was," said Creeden, now a 27-year-old Air Force captain from Manassas. "But I thought, 'Hey this is training, so I shouldn't be surprised.' "
Then he got to Langley Air Force Base.
"When I got here, the plane was older than I was, too," Creeden said.
No more. He's flying the F/A-22 Raptor in two weeks of exercises that begin today at Hill Air Force Base. To him, it's like driving an expensive car he just bought.
"It looks, smells, feels new," said Creeden, who picked up 4.7 hours - pilots count their experience in six-minute increments - in the Raptor on Saturday, flying it from Langley to Hill.
That's one reason he's excited about flying the Air Force's new fighter.
Maj. Chuck Corcoran has another, gleaned from sitting in the back seat of a Russian Su-27 on an exchange visit.
"It was eye-opening," he said. "What was really eye-opening was how they go about training their pilots. They're getting more and more experienced."
That means they're getting better, and Corcoran isn't into jousting. With foreign technology catching up to the Air Force's staple, the F-15, he doesn't want to go against a well-trained pilot in equal equipment.
"If I can blow up a threat before he knows I'm there, that's what I want," said Corcoran, who is plainly enamored with the Raptor's stealth capability, both against other planes and surface-to-air missiles that are getting increasingly sophisticated.
"This plane can go places that an aluminum plane just can't. With the F-15, we'll probably both get a shot."
The last thing a pilot wants is to be a flying target in a gun - or missile - fight.
It's why Corcoran is in love with the Raptor.
Jim Hecker's reason is mathematical and goes to an exercise two years ago in which F-15 pilots fought Russian MiG-29s flown by Indian pilots.
"We were trading plane-for-plane," said Hecker, a lieutenant colonel who commands Langley's 27th Fighter Squadron, the first unit to fly the Raptor.
He admitted that it scared him, because the last thing a pilot wants is competition in the sky.
Later, he flew F-15s against Su-27s in an exercise in Malaysia. The American planes made out better that time, but not better enough.
"We want to win every fight 59-0," Hecker said.
He figures he can pitch a shutout every time with a Raptor.
Ask any of them about federal budget cutbacks that reduce the number of F/A-22s the Air Force can buy to 179 and you get the same answer. They admit that it's the company line.
"The Air Force says it needs 381 to perform its mission," Corcoran said. "I've heard it over and over again."
Even though it's getting harder to find the parts necessary to keep the F-15s in the air, their use probably will be extended as long as possible because fewer Raptors are being bought.
Fewer F/A-22s mean "we'll just be busier," Hecker said. "There will be more for us to do."
So how many are enough, without the company line?
"You'll know 40 years from now," said Capt. Shawn, a Raptor instructor who is in town to see if there's anything else he should be teaching the pilots.
He laughed and added, "Everybody will be sitting around the table and asking each other, 'Did we have enough Raptors?' "
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Seems to be that the selection of Eagles may not be that great afterall....! -
okay, i just don't like the french, they still haven't got over their "napoleanisque" foreign policy, they just want to be spoilers on the world stage, and they are certainly no angels, remember the rainbow warrior incident ?
yes I remember : the rainbow warrior was about to lead a big fleet of civilian ships in order to disturb the french nuclear tests. As it was not the first time greenpeace was trying to prevent those tests, french authorities decided to sink the RB when she was still in port. Sadly a photographer was still onboard and was killed when the bomb blew up.
The french government apologised for what happened and eventually lost the french parliement elections 8 monthes later (yeah, France is a democracy and french citizens don't like when their government think it is over international laws and kill innocent ecologists...even by mistake.)perhaps most importanly of all, they are irresponsible weapons sellers, they'll sell to anyone and everyone with money ... they sold mirages to taiwan, and they'll happily sell rafales to china too as soon as they suceed in lifting the EU weapons embargo on china
The french sold mirage 2000 to Taiwan and they have never sold Rafale to anyone including China. Period.
For 15 years (ie, since the 1st gulf war) France has sold advanced fighter jets to Taiwan, Grece, UAE, Qatar, Brazil and India. No more no less. Do you see any "axis of evil" country in this list ? NO, so let's stop this "France is an irresponsible weapons dealer" crap, shall we.
As far as weapons sale to china are concerned, ask them where did they get all their shiny super computers that they are using now to develop their new weapons. And don't forget to ask them where does all the high tech military techonology they bought to Israel really come from
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When you're neighbours include the likes of Germany and England, it's not hard to see why they've lost. Almost every country in that region has had their butted kicked by those 2 nations at some point in their existance!
its funny nobody remembers that France also kicked german and british butts several times
May be it's due to all this stinky anti-french propaganda initiated by the USA since 2003 because they had to justify their "freedom" war in irak. -
Originally posted by Kovy:its funny nobody remembers that France also kicked german and british butts several times
May be it's due to all this stinky anti-french propaganda initiated by the USA since 2003 because they had to justify their "freedom" war in irak.
J'aime beaucoup la Francaise! -
Sorry bout can u care to illustrate how the French kicked the German's butts? or the English?
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Well, that's a bit off topic.
But here are some key words to start your searches :
Charlemagne (invaded half of the german territory), Guillaume the conqueror (the "french" Vicking who invaded england), one hundred years war (or how the british lost all their conquests on the french territory), Lafayette (The british don't like this one neither) Napoleon (no comment)