Singapore's Next Generation Fighter
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an old but proven design...the F-15K and the F-15T presents a new breed of the Strike Eagle, which derives from the standard F-15E and is built on the needs and specifications of the purchasing countries. Though the F-15's numbers will decrease in the next few years, with the phasing in of the F/A-22, the Strike Eagle variants will still be around for deep strike missions and maybe, as stand-in for the JSF, should delays to production do happens. In short, you can consider the F-15T a next generation Eagle...Originally posted by wd1:just visualise - u're watching a fighter screaming at 0.8 mach 50m from the ground go right past you. ZOOM! u turn ur head and its gone. same goes for the JERNAS battery - it has precious few seconds with the incoming fighter in its field of view. very very difficult to get a lockon at all.
but as viper says, why not stay out of range of the SHORADS altogether by just flying high?
anyway to get back to the topic... i noticed sth. we're looking for a Next Generation Fighter. but the F-15 first flew in 1972, 2 years before the F-16 which flew in 1974. in that sense F-15's a Present or even Previous Generation Fighter! older even than the F-16.
of course we know that F-15T will have new engines, avionics, weapons and all, and is still superior to the Eurocanards in terms of load-carrying ability and range. but still an old design... -
Think you abit confused about the numbers. F-22 is the Raptor. I don't think it has the /A behind, as it is designed as a air superiority fighter. They are supposed to work on a FB-22, supposingly a stretched bomber/attack version. F-35 is the JSF, somewhat scaled down version of the F-22.Originally posted by superspitfire:an old but proven design...the F-15K and the F-15T presents a new breed of the Strike Eagle, which derives from the standard F-15E and is built on the needs and specifications of the purchasing countries. Though the F-15's numbers will decrease in the next few years, with the phasing in of the F/A-22, the Strike Eagle variants will still be around for deep strike missions and maybe, as stand-in for the JSF, should delays to production do happens. In short, you can consider the F-15T a next generation Eagle...
I don't classify the F-15T as a next generation fighter. To me, it classifies as a 4th generation, as it does not include elements of stealth.... Rafale is what I consider 5th generation.
Our F-16 block 52+ is customised and built to our exact needs, but I don't think it qualifies as a next generation plane. So similarly....a customised F-15, don't really qualify. Too bad the LAVI is scrapped, otherwise it shall be an interesting entry in the selection process.
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just a correction on raptor designation...is confirm redesignate as F/A-22 check from the website http://www.lmtas.comOriginally posted by wombat:Think you abit confused about the numbers. F-22 is the Raptor. I don't think it has the /A behind, as it is designed as a air superiority fighter. They are supposed to work on a FB-22, supposingly a stretched bomber/attack version. F-35 is the JSF, somewhat scaled down version of the F-22.
I don't classify the F-15T as a next generation fighter. To me, it classifies as a 4th generation, as it does not include elements of stealth.... Rafale is what I consider 5th generation.
Our F-16 block 52+ is customised and built to our exact needs, but I don't think it qualifies as a next generation plane. So similarly....a customised F-15, don't really qualify. Too bad the LAVI is scrapped, otherwise it shall be an interesting entry in the selection process.
btw our blk 52+ has gone 1st flight
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After reading the posts, I'm still not getting a clear objective for this so-called NGF tender.
But here's my understanding so far: 
1) Publicly it's suppose to be an A4 replacement more like numbers
2) But it's really a new deep(with strategic reach) strike platform
3) A JSF fallback plan likely to go on till 2020
4) A vehicle for technology transfer - AESA targetted
Have I left anything out? Which one of the above has the highest priority?
Because NGF is going on 2020, there's some serious concerns on the technology on board being the latest with potential for further upgrading.
I think deep strike missions will be unmanned (cruise missiles) by 2020 and NGF with all the technology maybe irrelevant by then.
JDAM production line I read somewhere only requires less than 10 ppl to run. As a result along with a sizeable demand unit costs has come down significantly. If I recall maybe a couple of thousand US dollars.
I think the same will be true for all smart weapons.
1st strikes usually targets 'fixed' targets.....
It could be by 2020 all you need is a satcom and a pair of lat/longs. -
I really question the need for Singapore to have a plane with the load capacity and the range of the F15. I mean, a Rafale can already take 9t of ordinance and its range is really more than decent. Remember that going for a heavy plane like a F15 will mean higher maintenance costs.
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For payload/range, more is always better and it's never enough.
F-15T, even though the heaviest of all contenders, at least has data to indicate it is approx 30% more to operate over an F-16C unit.
I can see the technical superiority of Rafale on paper. But I don't think Rafale is cheaper to operate.........alot of new systems on board Rafale with little clue on their operational reliability and MTBF.
Maybe if RSAF takes alot longer(another 5 years) to evaluate the contenders, this question will have a clearer answer. -
den i think we cancel the NGF deal... and change to buying ARROW 2Originally posted by Fairyland:Maybe if RSAF takes alot longer(another 5 years) to evaluate the contenders, this question will have a clearer answer.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/arrow2/index.html -
there is always a thing call foreign military sales assistance. the F-15 is large in numbers, the american aviation industry is different from the rest of world. there are alot of companies always fighting to get contract to manufacture aircraft parts. in fact the market is so huge, there was once the rsaf uh fleet was grounded becos in america, they found parts that were not from certified companies, rsaf looked thru its fleet to ensure such parts did not come to us.Originally posted by Viking1:I really question the need for Singapore to have a plane with the load capacity and the range of the F15. I mean, a Rafale can already take 9t of ordinance and its range is really more than decent. Remember that going for a heavy plane like a F15 will mean higher maintenance costs. -
tell the govt, changed it to next generation bomber.Originally posted by Fairyland:For payload/range, more is always better and it's never enough. -
I think Mindef carries much more weight here....judging by the Minister's speech last night.Originally posted by cavsg:tell the govt, changed it to next generation bomber.
Seems defense of Singapore relies a whole lot on maintaining a technological edge ....... sigh.
Maybe that's why B1-B is in AA2004? -
But the downsides are quite significant like for example the operating costs, the RCS, the maneuvrability.... so the question is really whether Singapore needs a plane of the size and weight of the F15. My guess is that they don't need that big of a plane, otherwise why is the Midef considering Rafale and Typhoon and not Su-30 ? The thing is, Singapore wants a twin-engine plane and M'sia is getting the F-18E, therefore the only American product that can be proposed if the F-15.Originally posted by Fairyland:For payload/range, more is always better and it's never enough.
If the Rafale or Typhoon don't turn out to be significantly cheaper to operate than F-15 then really Dassault, EADS and BAe have totally screwed-up. I don't think so...
I can see the technical superiority of Rafale on paper. But I don't think Rafale is cheaper to operate.........alot of new systems on board Rafale with little clue on their operational reliability and MTBF.
Cost of spares for the Rafale could be expensive because of the small production numbers, but soon the F15 will not be produced anymore. What impact on the cost of spares ? -
double-post deleted
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sorry for the double-post
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Viking1 you can remove the double post by editing the 2nd post and removing all the contents. Saves the other users bandwidth and time. Thanks!Originally posted by Viking1:sorry for the double-post
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I tried that but does not work, it says there has to be some text in order to post the changesOriginally posted by Viper52:Viking1 you can remove the double post by editing the 2nd post and removing all the contents. Saves the other users bandwidth and time. Thanks! 
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just type your sorry for the repeated post on the first one lor.Originally posted by Viking1:I tried that but does not work, it says there has to be some text in order to post the changes -
Or you could just type "Double post deleted"Originally posted by Bochupi:just type your sorry for the repeated post on the first one lor. -
All this while I kinda ignore this but why the requirement for twin engines?
Is JSF is a twin engine?
That's what I'm most interested to know. -
Singapore joins the F35 programme Officially
And no the JSF is not an twin egine aircraft... but have mutliple engine outlets
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.3363545.1079486801&prod=35569&modele=afp
As a Security Cooperation Participant to the program, Singapore also has the privilege of asking for early purchase of the JSF for delivery from 2012 onwards.
Singapore has said that the fighter, also known as the F35, was a potential candidate to meet its longer-term needs as the city-state seeks to replace its fleet of ageing A4 Super Skyhawk and F5 Tiger fighters in the next decade.
Strange leh now they lump the A4 replacmentwith the NGF and JSF? fallback plan or offically we are looking for 2 fighters to replace the A4 - deep strike and watever u label the JSF[/b] -
Originally posted by smisig:
IMHO, the NGF will replace the remaining A4s, plus maybe part of the F5S/T. The F35 will replace the remaining F5s and then progressively replace the F16s, as what the USAF intended to do.
Singapore joins the F35 programme Officially
And no the JSF is not an twin egine aircraft... but have mutliple engine outlets
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?session=dae.3363545.1079486801&prod=35569&modele=afp
As a Security Cooperation Participant to the program, Singapore also has the privilege of asking for early purchase of the JSF for delivery from 2012 onwards.
Singapore has said that the fighter, also known as the F35, was a potential candidate to meet its longer-term needs as the city-state seeks to replace its fleet of ageing A4 Super Skyhawk and F5 Tiger fighters in the next decade.
Strange leh now they lump the A4 replacmentwith the NGF and JSF? fallback plan or offically we are looking for 2 fighters to replace the A4 - deep strike and watever u label the JSF[/b]
If the F35 program is delayed, we will have at least the NGF requirement to fallback on. I believe if the F35 is delayed, the urgency to regenerate the USAF inventory will be the more urgent, and less likely for countries like Singapore to opt for early delivery. The way I see it, we are more likely to receive our first batch in the 2015~17 timeframe at the earliest. -
i'll be sooo old by then... -_-"
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Guys, if you look at RSAF ORBAT, then you will realise that RSAF constantly maintain 3 types of platform, with 1 outgoing/phasing out, and the other as replacement.
Generally, there will be 1 type dedicated for strike and maritime roles. This has been fulfilled by the Skyhawks till now. One type to fulfil the interceptor/fighter with secondary strike role. This is currently fulfilled by the F-5. The last, being the multirole and probably supposed to be the best air asset (or what I'll call RSAF air superiority fighter). This is currently the Vipers in the inventory.
Looking at things, the Vipers are earmarked to replace the Skyhawks in the strike, interdiction and maritime role. The NGF will be purchased to fulfil currently Viper's role. and in the future, the JSF will replace the NGF role while the NGF will replace the F-5 fighter/interceptor/secondary strike role.
Basically, the trend started in the 80s, with the
F-5 being the (top air superiority fighter for RSAF), the Hunter playing the inteceptor/fighter/Recon with secondary strike role, the the Skyhawks, the dedicated strike aircraft.
Came the 90s, where the Viper became the air superiority fighter, the F-5 upgraded and replacing Hunters, the Skyhawk upgraded to continue its role.
Come the new Millenium, we will see the NGF taking over the Vipers as the air superiority fighter, the Viper taking over the Skyhawk, and the F-5 remain where it is.
Come post 2010, we will see the F35 taking over NGF, NGF taking over the F-5's role, and the Viper (possibly upgraded) remain predominantly for strike roles (being the most numerous type just as its predecessor - the Skyhawk).
Sounds logical? -
Hey guys!
seems like the trial for F-15s has started.
saw one perform touch and go stunt. -
some confusion here, u mean 2100 ah? 2000 already and NGF is still not selected.Originally posted by Joe Black:Come the new Millenium, we will see the NGF taking over the Vipers as the air superiority fighter, the Viper taking over the Skyhawk, and the F-5 remain where it is. -
JSF Order Reaffirmed, Plans Reshuffled
Aviation Week & Space Technology
03/22/2004, page 26
Robert Wall
Washington
In an unrelated JSF development, Singapore has inked the long-expected letter of agreement to become a partner. The deal, which includes an unspecified financial commitment, assures the country an early slot in the JSF production line. Singaporean officials have suggested to their U.S. counterparts that they would want to buy JSFs early in the next decade to meet their modernization needs. U.S. officials also say Singapore may be interested in at least some Stovl aircraft after the U.S. Air Force announced a desire to buy a few of those models.