Singapore's Next Generation Fighter
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rsaf should have look into STOVL jsf even if usaf didn't request them. it doesn't take much brains to realise that our airfields can be easily taken out by strikes via land, sea or air.
a big country like sweden have remote air bases for war time deployments. singapore size does not allow such bases with runways thus the focus on a stovl with vertical landing maybe more practical. -
Aiya, I meant 2000 to 2010 period lah.... just typing too quickly to proof read my statement. The NGF should have already been selected by now if not the the financial crisis recently. The timetable has slipped by 2 years, so everything has been pushed back. I think we would see NGF taking IOC sometime in 2008, JSF maybe in 2012 to 2015 timeframe. By 2010, NGF will become the mainstay of RSAF air superiority fighter, JSF is more like to replace NGF in this role betweem 2015 and 2020.Originally posted by cavsg:some confusion here, u mean 2100 ah? 2000 already and NGF is still not selected.
Post 2020, my prediction is UCAV
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can also land on our delta frigates..Originally posted by cavsg:rsaf should have look into STOVL jsf even if usaf didn't request them. it doesn't take much brains to realise that our airfields can be easily taken out by strikes via land, sea or air.
a big country like sweden have remote air bases for war time deployments. singapore size does not allow such bases with runways thus the focus on a stovl with vertical landing maybe more practical.
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no, land on mini aircraft carrier disguised as troop LST better.Originally posted by Moonstriker:can also land on our delta frigates..
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no point, if u take off vertically, you have to trade in fuel and armament for weight as the engine thrust need to lift the plane up, thats why harriers take off in short take off mode rather than vertical, the forward motion generates lift from the wingsOriginally posted by Moonstriker:can also land on our delta frigates..
one interesting idea is the skyhook by bae in 1982, a crane will lift the harrier off the ship and the engine then starts and the harrier will fly off after being drop by the crane. the plan is to change a helicopter frigate to carry harriers. there were tests on the ground using a crane but the idea died off, but the design is promising that one day it might be taken up again. -
Can you please elaborate? This is not the first time I have encountered such comments. The first time was mentioned in passing by a German mil comms sales rep.Originally posted by paulho:o
But the french are willing to provide us the know how to build advance radar systems, does it means that with this knowledge we can now build our own version of countermeasures?
The french in this case will be willing to throw into the kitty their own mothers to seal the deal if it is sweet enough. But based on history they are dirty bastards known to have made arm supply deals to countries like israel, iraq and most recently taiwan then backstab them later on. Any deal with them I feel needs to be really ironclad. -
I won't say it is the doing of the sales reps, but the French govt. The French govt has the habit to terminate or cancel sales due to political changes. Like the 50s, when the Israeli bought their Mirage 3, 5 jets, and French patrol boats; the Taiwanese with the French frigate, etc are examples of French govt changing or overriding sales contract or impounding purchased eqiupment due to politics.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:Can you please elaborate? This is not the first time I have encountered such comments. The first time was mentioned in passing by a German mil comms sales rep. -
and now they want to sell mirage to chinaOriginally posted by Joe Black:I won't say it is the doing of the sales reps, but the French govt. The French govt has the habit to terminate or cancel sales due to political changes. Like the 50s, when the Israeli bought their Mirage 3, 5 jets, and French patrol boats; the Taiwanese with the French frigate, etc are examples of French govt changing or overriding sales contract or impounding purchased eqiupment due to politics. -
saw a F-15 airborne from wsap at 10:40am yesterday. should be doing its eval test.
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Saw a few buzzing around last week. Seemed to be single seaters, not F-15Es. Another Commando Sling?
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My mistake, confirmed its F-15E. LN tail codes from Lakenheath England.
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they were in the news early this month for causing thisOriginally posted by Viper52:My mistake, confirmed its F-15E. LN tail codes from Lakenheath England.
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Heard about this one...was a big thing on a scale modeling forum I frequent. Nice!Originally posted by cavsg:they were in the news early this month for causing this
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http://www.rense.com/general49/circle.htm
Fighter Pilot Behind Mystery
Circle In UK Sky
By David Sapsted
The Telegraph - UK
3-3-4
The mystery was solved last night over the cause of a two-mile, near perfect 'O' shape that appeared 30,000ft above East Anglia.
After a day when many people believed they had seen a UFO and when a local newspaper speculated that the ring was a halo created by the refraction of sunlight through ice crystals, the explanation turned out to be rather more prosaic.
The cause was an American air force F15 fighter jet. And it was on a training flight - not, as many people in the region had believed, involved in a stunt to publicise the 11 Oscars won by the latest Lord of the Rings film. Many thousands of people witnessed the formation of the ring - or rings, according to some accounts - late on Monday afternoon.
Mike Easton, 50, a chartered surveyor, photographed the phenomenon as it formed due west of his home at Blofield, Norfolk. "It was a nice sunset so I stuck my head out of the window and saw this amazing circle. It was pretty impressive," said Mr Easton.
Initially it was thought that a Tornado jet from RAF Marham, north Norfolk, or a Jaguar from RAF Coltishall, near Norwich, could have been responsible. But both bases said their aircraft were not involved.
Then, late yesterday, a USAF spokesman at Lakenheath, Suffolk, said one of its F15s was responsible while carrying out "a routine manoeuvre".
Lt Ed Ekpoudom said: "The pilot said he was just doing a manoeuvre at 33,000ft at around sunset when the conditions were conducive for a vapour trail to form. He is surprised to hear how it appeared from the ground."
© Copyright of Telegraph Group Limited 2004. -
I have been reading the threads for over an hour already and took some time to follow up on TFR, ILS, other jargon and product names. Some of you apparently are technical guys having worked on aircraft and have dirted your hands on aircraft.
I actually have a proposition which I did float to MIW. Why not take an F-16D and put into it 2 supercomputers, much the same way the avionics on the F-22 are configured, only this time we DEVELOP the whole setup from stretch, putting into it a system bus, look at the contribution of distributed networking and parallel architecture, the networking cables, a mission computer with source code written in a sound language (not Java), choose a realtime COTS system software such as VxWorks, and integrate the various subsystems on the reconfigured F-16D with other expertise in aerodynamics, airframe, engines, life support systems, munitions etc.
Basically, Singapore should encourage DEVELOPMENT of new products, and not just focus on a emphasis on continued integration. Although it would be much harder, it would engage the minds of our young talent and not so young IT professionals and engineers, and get them to work for a national goal.
It would also allow our many gamers to work on software, afterall, I hear a common refrain amongst my IT friends, Singapore gamers are not developers and this is a bad trend. -
That has to be the dumbest idea I have ever heard off. Just precisely what do you acheive? In the context of the NGF thread, you will be spending a lot of money, around $1billion (cheap) and whole lot of time (irreplaceable). With no known result.Originally posted by agsm1:snip.
I actually have a proposition which I did float to MIW. Why not take an F-16D and put into it 2 supercomputers, much the same way the avionics on the F-22 are configured, only this time we DEVELOP the whole setup from stretch, putting into it a system bus, look at the contribution of distributed networking and parallel architecture, the networking cables, a mission computer with source code written in a sound language (not Java), choose a realtime COTS system software such as VxWorks, and integrate the various subsystems on the reconfigured F-16D with other expertise in aerodynamics, airframe, engines, life support systems, munitions etc.
Basically, Singapore should encourage DEVELOPMENT of new products, and not just focus on a emphasis on continued integration. Although it would be much harder, it would engage the minds of our young talent and not so young IT professionals and engineers, and get them to work for a national goal.
It would also allow our many gamers to work on software, afterall, I hear a common refrain amongst my IT friends, Singapore gamers are not developers and this is a bad trend.
If the plane flies, you get a flight computer on an airframe that is obsolete, not mentioned serious weapons integration problems.
If your comments are not related to the NGF, please do everyone a favor, crawl back to your "software for the F15" thread, learn more about development of weapon systems before you come back here. -
you think that my mixing around with a usaf test pilot taught me nothing. i do know a lot about weapons systems development, and obviously from that thread you think the f-16 airframe is outdated. surely, there are governments that do not think this way, and it should have you thinking clearly. you obviously know nothing about weapons development and are just shooting from the knee.
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http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,244874,00.html
Jakarta to buy eight more Russian jets
JAKARTA - The Indonesian air force will buy eight more Sukhoi jet fighters from Russia to add to its existing four, its chief said yesterday.
'We will buy eight more Sukhois from Russia to make a squadron of jet fighters,' Air Marshal Chappy Hakim was quoted by the official Antara news agency as saying. An Indonesian air force squadron consists of 12 fighters. -
I think we should just go for F15E.
Combat proven and fought in Iraq before. Pounded all the russian tanks and shot down countless russian planes.....
Its a no say situation. Why bother to choose.
Singapore always like to choose this choose tat.... tats what i heard from vendors...
http://www.myintimatecare.com -
oh please....no more select this cos is combat proven blah blah blah....are we really don't select things that are not combat proven?
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we dun really buy stuffs because they are combat proven.
we buy stuffs that are cost effective.Originally posted by duotiga83:oh please....no more select this cos is combat proven blah blah blah....are we really don't select things that are not combat proven? -
I am quietly reflecting on the need for a NGF. Surely, can't our air force engineers make our F-16Ds good enough to match the Su-30 and Su-35 in air-to-air combat?
I am also thinking of several good planes that are reasonably good as NGF although these are third-generation aircraft, namely the F-16E/F, the F/A-18E/F and the Mirage 2000.
What would we lose if we brought say a Mirage 2000 instead of a Rafale, considering it a choice we make after putting the airaraft through a computer simulation, the wind-tunnel and through actual flight sorties carrying various payloads for various mission types.
I think that we might have the political will to see through a purchase of the Rafale which is my choice, because its a semi-stealth aircraft, with a good radar, good lethal munitions mix, good flight performance, a bit slow at M1.8, a pair of high-performance engines, a good airframe with many composite parts, a conventional ferry range that is second to the F-15T, a digital library for the construction and design of the aircraft, source code availability and co-operative design work opportunities, integration with stand-off missiles which Singapore may equip for but not buy because of the political sensitivity of missiles with extended ranges such as the Storm Scalp EG etc.
Possibly the issue of having a MICA equipped Rafale is hot enough, because MW missiles are probably non-jammable and they operate very well in dense ESM/ECCM conditions.
Morever, the ASMP missile which is nuclear-capable to 200KT has been developed specifically for the Rafale, and can be sold as a conventional model to Singapore. This could cause quite a fair bit of unease, plus the range of shorter-range cruise missiles on the horizon such as the Storm Scalp EG/Storm Shadow, the KPED etc which would be very useful in interdiction, naval strike, stand-off, precision strike etc. -
Robert Ho, how nice of you to appear here... still extrapolating and making wild assumptions?Originally posted by agsm1:I am quietly reflecting on the need for a NGF. Surely, can't our air force engineers make our F-16Ds good enough to match the Su-30 and Su-35 in air-to-air combat?
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Robert Ho, how nice of you to appear here... still extrapolating and making wild assumptions?
Hello, I am still thinking about the NGF, and I am not Robert Ho. My name's Andrew .....something. You seem to be carried away by a new car such as the NGF, and you obviously ignore developments going around the world, especially those in the backyard of Singapore; other than panic over Indonesia's possible purchase of Su-35? Perhaps, you really fear having the Indonesians run Singapore?
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I think we should get the Rafale. F-15T the oldest design out of the 3, and the yanks not very supportive of technology transfer. I can't say or know whether Rafale or Eurofighter is better aircraft, but if i not wrong, Rafale can carry heavier payloads, and i think sharing developments on a new radar is good for us, and i think the French also more desperate for the deal, so we might squeeze more stuff from them.
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WAh wah...really makes sense sia! I think its going to happen as wat u say! But i personally think it'll be really cool if RSAF get F-15T's for your air superiority fighter/pride of the RSAF role, F-35 JSF for inteceptor/fighter/Recon role, and Rafale for the strike/interdiction role. But hey, not going to happen i think.........Originally posted by Joe Black:Guys, if you look at RSAF ORBAT, then you will realise that RSAF constantly maintain 3 types of platform, with 1 outgoing/phasing out, and the other as replacement.
Generally, there will be 1 type dedicated for strike and maritime roles. This has been fulfilled by the Skyhawks till now. One type to fulfil the interceptor/fighter with secondary strike role. This is currently fulfilled by the F-5. The last, being the multirole and probably supposed to be the best air asset (or what I'll call RSAF air superiority fighter). This is currently the Vipers in the inventory.
Looking at things, the Vipers are earmarked to replace the Skyhawks in the strike, interdiction and maritime role. The NGF will be purchased to fulfil currently Viper's role. and in the future, the JSF will replace the NGF role while the NGF will replace the F-5 fighter/interceptor/secondary strike role.
Basically, the trend started in the 80s, with the
F-5 being the (top air superiority fighter for RSAF), the Hunter playing the inteceptor/fighter/Recon with secondary strike role, the the Skyhawks, the dedicated strike aircraft.
Came the 90s, where the Viper became the air superiority fighter, the F-5 upgraded and replacing Hunters, the Skyhawk upgraded to continue its role.
Come the new Millenium, we will see the NGF taking over the Vipers as the air superiority fighter, the Viper taking over the Skyhawk, and the F-5 remain where it is.
Come post 2010, we will see the F35 taking over NGF, NGF taking over the F-5's role, and the Viper (possibly upgraded) remain predominantly for strike roles (being the most numerous type just as its predecessor - the Skyhawk).
Sounds logical?