National Service as breeding stock?
-
I am playing the part of the devil's advocate here people.It is just an idea that I came up with after reading the article on shortage of sperm and eggs.
Ethically,I acknowledge that I find it wrong where others don't,but it may be necessary for national survival.
After the shortage of sperm,henceforth referred to as geneseed or gametes,in private and public hospitals,I thought of a solution.With some lateral thinking and linear thinking,this is possible.
Given that many healthy physical male Singaporean specimens are in their prime and available during their tenure of national service,why not use the screening process used by the army and police to select good recruits for the Commandoes,NDU and Special Forces?
To my thinking,the people serving in these units are healthy males in their prime with good physical and mental qualities,indicating good genetics to an extent.Why not get these fellas to....donate genetic material in the form of sperm to a central sperm bank.Prospective mothers can then choose from a range of attributs qualities that they desire and use the sperm to produce babies.Excess genetic material could be marketed and sold overseas to other sperm banks.
I throw this idea out simply for the sake of debate.Please do not try and crucify me for this. -
if u donate your sperm or egg, i guess u wont know who gotten your sperm or the egg..
then how if cross marriage occurs...???
______________________
I am Croco, Croco am I -
so the rest of us..if we are not Commandos or NDU..means we are flaw?Originally posted by Sardaukar:I am playing the part of the devil's advocate here people.It is just an idea that I came up with after reading the article on shortage of sperm and eggs.
Ethically,I acknowledge that I find it wrong where others don't,but it may be necessary for national survival.
After the shortage of sperm,henceforth referred to as geneseed or gametes,in private and public hospitals,I thought of a solution.With some lateral thinking and linear thinking,this is possible.
Given that many healthy physical male Singaporean specimens are in their prime and available during their tenure of national service,why not use the screening process used by the army and police to select good recruits for the Commandoes,NDU and Special Forces?
To my thinking,the people serving in these units are healthy males in their prime with good physical and mental qualities,indicating good genetics to an extent.Why not get these fellas to....donate genetic material in the form of sperm to a central sperm bank.Prospective mothers can then choose from a range of attributs qualities that they desire and use the sperm to produce babies.Excess genetic material could be marketed and sold overseas to other sperm banks.
I throw this idea out simply for the sake of debate.Please do not try and crucify me for this.
my Pes Status is A...
i would like to know how the screening process works?
didnt know there are other Pes Status..which is higher then A?
Ged..wats your pes status? A++???
dude...i just realize u only emphasis on SF people..even in some other post..
it seem the SF is the only group of human in SIngapore? tats worth mentioning? -
that's the biggest problem of having a sperm bankin a small country. inevitiably, someone is going to end up crossbreeding.Originally posted by sgboy2004:if u donate your sperm or egg, i guess u wont know who gotten your sperm or the egg..
then how if cross marriage occurs...??? -
have u watched Gattacca? its a movie starring Ethan Hawke and Uma Thurman and it goes somewhere along the lines of what you're talking about...
and here's the theme for the whole movie: there is no gene for the human spirit.
i'm probably genetically imperfect... childhood asthma, myopia, maybe premature baldness as well... average IQ, below average height and weight ratio...
does that make me inferior genetic material? i dare u to make that claim.
part of what makes the human race so special is genetic diversity. all that nonsense about breeding geniuses with athletes for genetically superior offsprings is pure nonsense... Einstein and Beethoven would probably have been aborted if u went by those silly standards.
eugenics is morally deplorable to me not merely because it blatantly discriminatory but because it seeks to reduce procreation to a set of fixed formulaes. its never that simple.
even if u attempt to fertilize a "class A" egg with a "commando quality" sperm, u will still have a chance of getting either a normal healthy fetus, a retard, or maybe... just maybe... a slim chance of an athletic genius. its not reduceable to that level... not yet anyway. and i shudder to think of the day when it will be possible...
besides, when u deliberately weed out certain genetic traits to make "superior" human beings, u might actually be leading to mankind's extinction.
Darwin, contrary to popular beliefs, isn't about eugenics. the "strong" survives doesn't mean physical strength. it means adaptability.
heard of sickle cell anaemia? don't wanna insult your intelligence... go check it out. a supposed "weakness" might actually turn out to be a winning trait that enables a specie to survive.
a friend of mine was thinking of getting an alsatian guard-dog recently and was told by a canine enthusiast we knew that alsatians make lousy guard-dogs these days cos pple are breeding "pure-bred" alsatians for looks... the signature ears, face, coat and tail... to the extent that they aren't very smart anymore...
and the whole point of getting thoroughbreds, for pple who know canines, is not just for looks, but because they're extremely intelligent and easy to train. now, because of vain, ignorant, pet owners, we have a specie suffering from genetic deterioration resulting from lack of diversity. ever wondered why golden retrievers are so friendly (or retarded) ?
go figure... -
Um,I merely put this up for debate guys.Relak lah.I didn't intend to put down others of the armed services as deficient or inferior genestock.
I personally am not that great either.Kena have chronic bronchitis as a child,sinusitis,allergy also.
I was just saying that those getting into the special forces are the healthiest and typically have good mental and physical attributes.They are a small group and have tougher training than regular troops,merely indicating good genetics,not showing that they have it.Thus,you have a controlled pool of people from which to draw genetic material from.
To put it in butcher terms;these fellas are prime quality manmeat.
But to expand the quantity of genetic material needed,we could also include those with an A rating or a high B rating.
Doctors would probably screen the sperm first to weed out deficiencies of any sort,and any woman selecting the sperm would be notified of the attributes and following deficiencies found.
Those whose sperm were used in production of other humans would be informed of their families and information about the family provided.
I would like to repeat that I merely put this up for DEBATE.I am not intending to personally insult any group of people or person with this.
so just relak,enjoy and let the debate continue. I am not putting down any of you guys.And to address the issue of cross-marriage,excess sperm could be shipped overseas,or the sperm banks here advertised and marketed,with some of the revenue going to the SAF. -
Thankfully,since my cousin is a doctor,I do know what sickle cell anaemia is.and no,you did not insult my intelligence,I heard of it before.You dun need to get so winded up lah man.Chill.
What is sickle cell anaemia?
Sickle Cell Anaemia is an inherited blood disorder, which mainly affects people of Afro-Caribbean origin, and some people from the Mediterranean region, Arabia and Asia
What causes sickle cell anaemiaWithin our blood vessels are red blood cells (which are shaped like doughnuts). These red blood cells contain a protein called haemoglobin (HbA). The function of haemoglobin is to carry oxygen from the lungs to all parts of our body.
Sickle Cell Anaemia occurs when the Hba is replaced by sickle haemoglobin. When you have sickle haemoglobin, your red blood cells become sickle-shaped, therefore, they cannot pass through very small blood vessels. This causes blockage, resulting in lack of oxygen to parts of the body which in turn results in pain, and/or damage to vital organs.
How does a person get sickle cell disease and anaemia?
Sickle Cell Anaemia is not 'catching'. We all have two copies of the gene for HbA, one inherited from our mother and one inherited from our father. Now, if one parent carries the HbS gene then sickle cell trait can occur in their baby. This means that the child is a carrier of the sickle cell gene, but has enough HbA to keep their red blood cells flexible. So the child will not have the symptoms of Sickle Cell Anaemia. Very occasionally they have to be careful when doing things that demand less oxygen than normal, for example scuba diving. If both parents carry the trait then the child may be born with the full Sickle Cell Disease with the symptoms as described below.
There are other types of haemoglobin such as HbC and beta thalassaemia, that when combined with sickle haemoglobin cause sickling disorders. Consequently, there are different forms of Sickle Cell Disorder, which occur in different ethnic groups.
The symptoms of sickle cell disease and anaemia:Symptoms include fatigue, breathlessness, bone and joint pain, weakness and susceptibility to infections. People affected with Sickle Cell Anaemia also experience what's known as 'crisis'. These are severe attacks which can encompass the aforementioned symptoms as well as jaundice, fever and vomiting. A crisis usually leads to hospitalisation, and in some cases a blood transfusion is needed. Repeated crisis can lead to liver, lung, kidney damage and other medical conditions.
Managing sickle cell disease and anaemia:
There is no cure for the disease but daily medication and regular hospital check-ups keep Sickle Cell Anaemia manageable. People with the condition are able to go to school, college or work but, of course, may have to take time off for periods of illness. Like with many other conditions, it's a matter of being aware of the 'limitations' of the disease and taking precautions. So, for instance, avoiding strenuous and emotional stress, drinking plenty of fluids to avoid dehydration and being able to recognise the onset of illness is important.
and there you have it. -
I would like to repeat that I merely put this up for DEBATE.I am not intending to personally insult any group of people or person with this.
read your post again..tell me which part of your thread are not promoting "Aryan Syndrom"? sori i use this tern..but its similar..
in the 1st place..u recommended..u didnt even put it in a debative way..
even if u state its a debate.. -
btw... commandoes or wadsoever are not as prime and fit as you think they are. Visited Hendon camp once... some are either skinny like skeleton or as fat as a c130.
only a few are fit. -
Originally posted by Sardaukar:
u missed out the main thing... pple affected by sickle cell anaemia are also resistant to malaria.
Thankfully,since my cousin is a doctor,I do know what sickle cell anaemia is.and no,you did not insult my intelligence,I heard of it before.You dun need to get so winded up lah man.Chill.
What is sickle cell anaemia?
Sickle Cell Anaemia is an inherited blood disorder, which mainly affects people of Afro-Caribbean origin, and some people from the Mediterranean region, Arabia and Asia...
this happens to be something i feel very strongly about... i am disguted, sickened and infuriated by the mere mention of that sick E word.
don't worry... i'm cool. i'm addressing the topic, not attacking you.
and like i said about Gattacca... there is no gene for the human spirit... your SOF, CDO, or Special Forces genetic specimens may be there simply because they have an iron will and great determination... or they could be there due to the screwed-up SAF selection... conditions that are probably not genetically determined.
even if it was, u can't determine if u can actually breed 2 specimens to get the exact results u want. like i said... not yet anyway.
but if u can, u might end up killing the human race. u might eliminate say... sickle cell anaemia as a hereditary condition, but then, they'll be vulnerable to malaria ( and we haven't eliminated malaria worldwide yet... cos we banned DDT... but thats another story... ). and who knows what other conditions such as these exists?
don't bother applying such reductionistic outlooks towards reproduction and procreation. the intentions may be noble but the results may be the last thing u ever intended. -
If you can justify eugenics, you will soon be able to justify much more blanketing ideas on who is worth more then others.
Why not start a new NS? Where RGS and RI students are forced to marry to produce smart babies?
Remember if eugenics are part the equation, Singapore would never have existed, many of those who are considered inferior by our's soceity today were actually the ones who contributed to the rise of Singapore.
A subtle form of eugenics is already present in Singapore, where the Party has always been trying to up to proportion of smart couples, along with providing illogical one-ups to the white horse babies. Just look at the sports school, where many of Singapore's sportsmen today would never had made it in based on their schoolastic ability.
it's probably not deliberate, but a step in the wrong direction. Our schools are breeding infantile elitism and enforcing a caste mentailty.
With the lack of diversity comes fall. -
Of course, if people had to control over their reproductive rights, then what's next? If you can take sperm from a soldier irregardless of his consent, what's to stop the justification of inpregnating ideal female canditates without theirs as well?
Of course, why stop there? Might as well sterilize retarded or disabled people while you are at it. Sickle cell aneima? Why bother with managing the illness and waste cash? A sterilization is far cheaper and nips the problem in the bud.
Why stop there? Sterilize those whoes schoolastic scores do not meet a certain requirement, so that the batch of Children will always be of a certain quality.
What about assigning a computer generated number to every Singaporean based on his/her worth? If the worth is too low to be considered a help to soceity or progess to justifiy upkeep, why not kill and liqudify these people so that their bodies can provide some use as organ harvesting, fertilizer, power generation fuel, and other products of Singapore?
As you can see, this is a shaky road. -
if this kinda thing is actually implemented, den all e 'inferior' guys will not be allowed to f*ck??
aniway not practical lar, and very unethical as well. its like branding a person. i personally no one has the right to judge another human being. -
when i was in NUS... they actually got these posters seeking sperm donors...
i think they are more interested in brainy guys than brawny guys
if we are really so short of babies.. why not just import them en mass and raise them in special facilities?
of course... they still go to school with ordinary singaporean kids and can have fun outside ... the special facilities is just like a house... no military stuff.
-
thats not a terribly bad idea considering that certain countries face over-population and famines and stuff like that.Originally posted by tripwire:when i was in NUS... they actually got these posters seeking sperm donors...
i think they are more interested in brainy guys than brawny guys
if we are really so short of babies.. why not just import them en mass and raise them in special facilities?
of course... they still go to school with ordinary singaporean kids and can have fun outside ... the special facilities is just like a house... no military stuff.
but one wonders if raising kids in such "facilities" without real parenting might lead to some adverse effects on their psyche...
sperm donation poster? hmmm... never see before leh... how long ago was that? -
eh, i in NTU...they never put up sperm donars thingy leh...but our Clinic got sell Viagra.
but must consult the doctor to buy, hahahahah -
Originally posted by Moonstriker:btw... commandoes or wadsoever are not as prime and fit as you think they are. Visited Hendon camp once... some are either skinny like skeleton or as fat as a c130.
only a few are fit.
Yeah, it's mostly a state of mind.
Nathan - nope, I'm not aware of any ++ on the PES system.
Sardaukar, apart from the repulsiveness of the proposal on an ethical level and the risks that accompany genetic homogeniety, I think your idea fails to address one fundamental question: is it a case of sperm and egg shortage, or do women simply not want to bear children?