Made-in-S'pore smart weapons
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this is sooo demoralising... i don't need de laser nor the scope... waste strength to carry. rather equip M16A2 203 with the kite sight and a 2x tac scope. more firepower and ergonomic. More flexible too.Originally posted by wd1:got to handle one at AA'2004... it IS short, but feels very fat and bulky. wasn't exactly used to the feel of it. the sight/FCS is quite enormous and somewhat spoils its handling chracteristics and balance. wasn't totally impressed with it. -
i'm not sure how the cdos r trained in these daysOriginally posted by CX:"speedy and tenacious" but not reckless.. how can u run all over without taking cover when weapons are going off all over? m16, saw, mg and all???
its totally stupid and reinforces the perception of many of the observers that cdos are dumbass muscle-heads... the speed was impressive but get real.. if this was a real ops we fully expect them to be all dead.
it is understood that cdo carry out high risk, highly specialised missions and they don't do it the same way as infantry, but i think physiologically, we all get hurt real bad or die if we get shot. so there is no difference... u move tactically and u take proper cover.
and an atec allows them to do that: run around with impunity cos the miles are often not sensitive, and certainly not as painful as live rounds.
but during my days, if things r as what u mentioned, we'll be screwed up-side-down...
actually we over run n clear the enemy the same way as what the infantry guys does, except that we do it with the element of surprised attack, speed and suppressive fire.
fire movement, flanking, taking cover, r the part of key element of assess during a mission. u will kana screw if u charge / run across an open, uncleared area.
we've even done live firing with flanking, at night... image, if u r the one doing flanking, n just before u lob a grenade n charged at the target, u can see the tracers flying just 5 meters infront of u, fired from those providing suppressive fire at the target.
by than, even for the stupidest guy in the world will know what's call "TAKE COVER"
but i don't think they allow these type of movements nows-a-day
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Originally posted by Gedanken:You find it disturbing? Don't know if it still happens, but it used to drive the umpires crazy!
Back in my day (yes, I'm showing my age here ), it was BTEC, and we did what we were trained to do, which was namely guerrilla warfare. We had no hierarchy and no set lines, so what we effectively did was disperse and envelope the opponent or form ad hoc teams on the spot to hit targets of opportunity. From the outside it all looks chaotic (which was what the umpires objected to), but there is method to the madness.
And of course we overrun objectives - what's the point of attacking a target if all you're going to do is run around outside it? We don't hold on to them for long, though - as I understand it, another unit such as infantry is usually meant to come and relieve us after a relatively short while. ya.. the umpires always having problem keeping up with us when we go for fighting patrol during BTEC. -
for u maybe..not for others..so think abt others..Originally posted by Moonstriker:this is sooo demoralising... i don't need de laser nor the scope... waste strength to carry. rather equip M16A2 203 with the kite sight and a 2x tac scope. more firepower and ergonomic. More flexible too. -
they have to overrun the objective what.. or else they fight for what, but maybe that objective are usually high valued objective not those normal hill that infantry go.. haha anyway i thought infantry are usually send in after the main attack is over???Originally posted by wuming78:cdos r not trained to overrun objectives. only inf is required to do tt. at least tts my understanding of the doctrine.
anyway one of the key to atec and maybe to real war is speed
for atec u must be fast in overrunning the enemy.. if u kena pin down.. those stupid umpire got nothing to do.. they will just declare u kill.. one by one.. u know.. wayang.... so u must move so fast that the umpire dun have to time to declare u kill. haha...
for real war... about the same too... u kena pinned down... they can shoot or call arti on u... so if u have to die.. u have to die lah.. thats war.... u got watch the thin red line b4?? nice movie.. -
cdo go in, kill everyone, seize objective.
then inf go in, take over, dig shellscapes, cook maggie mee. hahaha...
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the aircraft incorporates alot of stealth design, the intake is at the top and doesn't expose the compressor blades, the exhaust is covered as well. overall design looks like a combination of f-117 and b-2, the tailfins of f-117 and smooth contours of b-2. but i wonder if the top speed is just 70kts, you dun need swept wings for such speeds. most likely this a/c flys on FBW.Originally posted by siaokao:err.. not all aircraft painted black is stealthy.. hahaaa.... -
haha ya.. that is why i know of.. haha...pls maybe one or two more shot in the head of those injured one. haha...Originally posted by 12qwaszx:cdo go in, kill everyone, seize objective.
then inf go in, take over, dig shellscapes, cook maggie mee. hahaha... -
im not sure. i had thought even how the cdos operate - their doctrine and all tt, differs. i always thought they r into more strategic missions. but for sure, the infantry is NOT sent in only after the main attack is over. infantry is required to capture objectives.Originally posted by I-like-flings(m):they have to overrun the objective what.. or else they fight for what, but maybe that objective are usually high valued objective not those normal hill that infantry go.. haha anyway i thought infantry are usually send in after the main attack is over???
anyway one of the key to atec and maybe to real war is speed
for atec u must be fast in overrunning the enemy.. if u kena pin down.. those stupid umpire got nothing to do.. they will just declare u kill.. one by one.. u know.. wayang.... so u must move so fast that the umpire dun have to time to declare u kill. haha...
for real war... about the same too... u kena pinned down... they can shoot or call arti on u... so if u have to die.. u have to die lah.. thats war.... u got watch the thin red line b4?? nice movie.. -
cdos r to operate far behind enemy lines, to destory key installations, eg. communication towers, sam, bridges, supply depot...Originally posted by wuming78:im not sure. i had thought even how the cdos operate - their doctrine and all tt, differs. i always thought they r into more strategic missions. but for sure, the infantry is NOT sent in only after the main attack is over. infantry is required to capture objectives.
capture div HQ, block enemy re-enforcement, capture and operate air-field....
the main attack is done by guards and infantry.
don't be surprise that infantry nows-a-day r also tasked to capture key terrain at front-line or just behind the front-line by air-lift (got a friend in inf where his patoon is for this tasked) -
oh no don't get me wrong... i have no problem with any strategy as long as it works... i just wonder if it does if these young punks are running around, acting like they're bullet proof...Originally posted by Gedanken:You find it disturbing? Don't know if it still happens, but it used to drive the umpires crazy!
Back in my day (yes, I'm showing my age here ), it was BTEC, and we did what we were trained to do, which was namely guerrilla warfare. We had no hierarchy and no set lines, so what we effectively did was disperse and envelope the opponent or form ad hoc teams on the spot to hit targets of opportunity. From the outside it all looks chaotic (which was what the umpires objected to), but there is method to the madness.
And of course we overrun objectives - what's the point of attacking a target if all you're going to do is run around outside it? We don't hold on to them for long, though - as I understand it, another unit such as infantry is usually meant to come and relieve us after a relatively short while.
no fire and movement, no proper cover, just flashing strobes, a lot of yelling and a lot of idiots running around with guns flashing all around them...
standards and training were probably more exacting back in your time... -
Gotta admit...feels lighter then the M16 leh....but the bloody iron sight is HOPELESS!!!!the scope crack, kenna water or dirty and you're screwedOriginally posted by wd1:got to handle one at AA'2004... it IS short, but feels very fat and bulky. wasn't exactly used to the feel of it. the sight/FCS is quite enormous and somewhat spoils its handling chracteristics and balance. wasn't totally impressed with it. -
Originally posted by CX:
Correct me if I'm wrong. I thought our SAW with the 100 rounds drum mag already weights 6.5kg? and they called it the lightest machine gun in the world.
that's quite a lot of weight to bring out field...
and u mean u can put 4 x 40mm [b]into that thing? yikes... just not used to picturing the 40mm used that way... its too chunky...
[/b]
IMHO 6kg not too much right? -
Well, I did say I came from the days when it was BTEC!Originally posted by CX:oh no don't get me wrong... i have no problem with any strategy as long as it works... i just wonder if it does if these young punks are running around, acting like they're bullet proof...
no fire and movement, no proper cover, just flashing strobes, a lot of yelling and a lot of idiots running around with guns flashing all around them...
standards and training were probably more exacting back in your time... For lack of any better information, I'd have to put my faith in the current lot's instructors, the more senior of whom were my contemporaries. 
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Ohh.... didn't army taught us that, if we made a mistake. Do it so fast that no one can spot it. Perhaps they were running all over to prevent umpires from giving them casualty cards.
The best way to train a soldier to take proper cover is to use live rounds. -
Originally posted by jacobs:
very ture..
The best way to train a soldier to take proper cover is to use live rounds.[/b]
but alot of things we done last time r not allow now..
what r cat1 in those days
no matter how big the rain, we still train.. -
we haf to observe trg safety and not take unnecessary risk, esp since we haf a conscripted armed force. and this does not necessarily mean a compromise in trg stds.Originally posted by lion02:very ture..
but alot of things we done last time r not allow now..
what r cat1 in those days
no matter how big the rain, we still train.. -
safety risk very high when it rains meh? i frankly find it a little pussy to stop for cover at a training shed when it rains...Originally posted by wuming78:we haf to observe trg safety and not take unnecessary risk, esp since we haf a conscripted armed force. and this does not necessarily mean a compromise in trg stds.
soldiers have to adapt to such conditions... its reallyvery different when it rains... visibility down, boots gets heavy, clothings sticks to your body, abrasion, etc etc...
and its something pple take for granted but u really gotta walk properly in the mud, especially if u're bashing... or u'll end up on your face a lot
the SAR21, the Squad Support Weapon, won't help us win any war if the pple using them aren't trained properly. -
Dae! cannot like that say lar.Originally posted by CX:safety risk very high when it rains meh? i frankly find it a little pussy to stop for cover at a training shed when it rains...
soldiers have to adapt to such conditions... its reallyvery different when it rains... visibility down, boots gets heavy, clothings sticks to your body, abrasion, etc etc...
and its something pple take for granted but u really gotta walk properly in the mud, especially if u're bashing... or u'll end up on your face a lot We should never compromise safety for the sake of training realism in times of peace. If we get injured, SAF is not going to take care of us for the rest of our lives. Sure, there are times when we took shelter when it's raining. But it's only when it's raining damn heavy. I'm afraid of rain when i ride, in the field, it's pretty normal that if it doesn't rain we'll feel uneasy.
There's once my platoon was to harbour at marsiling training ground. It was raining real heavy but we still have to harbour. Suddenly, the sound of wood splitting then *THUMP*, a large tree fell, missing my friend by a few metres. We were then called back to the nearby training shed. Cat1 don't exist in the field unless we are at Pasir laba. -
Err, and how many times have you been shot at?Originally posted by jacobs:Ohh.... didn't army taught us that, if we made a mistake. Do it so fast that no one can spot it. Perhaps they were running all over to prevent umpires from giving them casualty cards.
The best way to train a soldier to take proper cover is to use live rounds. -
? Why would i be shot at when i'm not the one running around?Originally posted by Gedanken:Err, and how many times have you been shot at? -
btw its not simply rain - its lightning risk.Originally posted by CX:safety risk very high when it rains meh? i frankly find it a little pussy to stop for cover at a training shed when it rains...
soldiers have to adapt to such conditions... its reallyvery different when it rains... visibility down, boots gets heavy, clothings sticks to your body, abrasion, etc etc...
and its something pple take for granted but u really gotta walk properly in the mud, especially if u're bashing... or u'll end up on your face a lot
the SAR21, the Squad Support Weapon, won't help us win any war if the pple using them aren't trained properly. -
deh.. i know cat 1 is about lightning risk lah... but are u to say that rain and lighting won't exist in a real war?Originally posted by wuming78:btw its not simply rain - its lightning risk.
everything also scared, might as well don't serve... serve already also wayang only mah... suck it in -
o cos we dun mean to say lightning wont happen during wars. wat we mean is is it necessary to take tt risk of being struck by lightning during peacetime training? would taking tt additional risk value add to the training? will we miss out anything in the training by not exposing troops to the risk of being struck by lightning during training?Originally posted by CX:deh.. i know cat 1 is about lightning risk lah... but are u to say that rain and lighting won't exist in a real war?
everything also scared, might as well don't serve... serve already also wayang only mah... suck it in
rain and lightning comes together often but not always. i personally haf went thru training in the rain when cat 1 was not declared. -
yes...going into training shed n hide when raining is abit pussy..Originally posted by CX:deh.. i know cat 1 is about lightning risk lah... but are u to say that rain and lighting won't exist in a real war?
everything also scared, might as well don't serve... serve already also wayang only mah... suck it in
but no i wont stand in the open when there is lightning risk..
in real war we still fight on when there is rain n lightning...
is there war now that we have to take this unneccesary risk?
u wont become the FLASH when u get hit by lightning..its either u die or become severely crippled..
its the same being civilian..when u go swimming pool..if there is lightning..the lifeguard will either warn u or ask u to get out of the pool..right?
if u are a officers or specs..are u willing to risk your own men life n put them in unneccesary risk?
yes..u can die..but not them...
TSR will be cast out of the window when there was comes..for now its better to keep them..