National service
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This is taken from Bar, under a topic of the same subject. Please give our views about it and no flaming pls.Originally posted by Ayukat:In my opinion, National Service should be made optional and for both men and women. National Service is a waste of time because it costs us 2.5 years of our entire lifetime and Singapore is too small to even win a war. Spending 2.5 years doing National Service rots our brain, we will probably forget everything we learn in school which means that we need to spend extra time reading up about stuff again. Although its true that National Service builds up confidence but only for a minority because more people are being scolded and shouted at during National Service than scolding and shouting at people. National Service only provides us with a measly income every month where we could be earning tens of thousands contributing to the nation's economy during that 2.5 years. And also since National Service is being forced and not volunteered, who can ensure that during a war the soldiers will stay behind and fight for the country instead of running away? In the past, people claimed that women contribution to the country is by giving birth but nowadays the birthrate has decreased drastically does that mean they are still doing their " National Service " properly? Isn't it time they contribute 2.5 years of their entire life to the nation too? -
well, i would say that my view on this post is that it is simply absurb as we all knows that singapore would not be what it is today if there is no NS. neighbouring countries will be more daring when it comes to things like bullying us. with NS, we are able to have a army that is trained yet not at the main expense of less workforce.........and for the war part, lets just say, if you had serve in an army before, when war comes, your reaction to it would be much much better to those that actually have not serve before. the pay part is also one more thing as the pay is not a "pay" but a allowance. and singaporeans are lucky as i heard that our NS allowance is much higher then those of isreal or taiwan..........
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OK, no flaming, huh?
Ayukat's post indicates that he has not thought this out carefully, and the fact that he has yet to perform his service serves to further emphasise the baselessness of his opinions.
Speaking from the perspective of a person who has spent ten years in an environment where national service does not exist (Australia), I can clearly see what I personally got out of national service. Perhaps my experience in 1 CDO is unusual, or so my friends from other units keep telling me, but nonetheless it is an example of what a national serviceman can take away from his experience.
First and foremost, NS provided me with an environment in which I could develop a work ethic, which was something that I did not experience in school. The tasks that we had to perform had an element of reality to them that academia could never hope to imitate, and that provided a sense of purpose for developing said work ethic. I did more and did it more thoroughly than my classmates at university. At work after graduation, this work ethic has also served me very well.
Second, having performed some rather challenging tasks in the course of duty, I walked out of the army a sense of confidence that I could deal with any situation. While my university classmates were running around like headless chickens at crunch time, I was already accustomed to making sure I stayed calm so that I could do the job right. Again, at work, this was a great help in giving my employers and clients a strong sense of confidence in my abilities.
As a spin-off of the confidence I developed, I also learned to stop running around trying to prove something, only to find that I didn't know what I was trying to prove and who I was trying to prove it to. While many of my classmates were wasting a whole lot of time and energy with grandiose but effectively useless projects, I made every move count. When I was supervising Honours students completing their theses, the first thing I would teach them was the concept of mission requirement, so that they didn't waste the ten short months they had to produce their theses. Of all of my students, only one student went as low as a lower second-class - she was too set in her ways to grasp the concept. As for the rest, they have all gone on to employ the mission requirement concept in everything they have done subsequently. Applying the concept to my own thesis, I currently hold the department record for producing a 30,000-word thesis: 8 months out of the 3-year allocation.
In the course of teaching, I also adapted the military method of instruction and communication to my needs - this helped me to ensure that I got the message through clearly to my students, and in later years, to my clients and colleagues.
When I was working as a human resources consultant, my military background helped a lot - the field of human resources grew out of the military during WW1, and the industry's enchantment with the military remains very strong today. Of course, "1st Battalion, Singapore Armed Forces Commandos" makes one hell of a brand name!
At the end of the day, the skills and working principles I picked up during NS, with subsequent development and enhancement, have been a great help in tucking the competition away.
This has all come from one very simple decision: "I'm stuck here for the next two and a half years, like it or not. I may as well get as much as I can out of it". -
at least we get better replies here.. from people who REALLY think before they type out a response.. Should have seen those replies in the "Bar".. Senseless.. Totally! It's a shame to see our boys shunning NS like it's some plague.. aye, a shame it is..
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Why did you think I didn't bother replying on the Bar thread? It's not quite the place for stimulating conversation.
Welcome aboard, Agapae! I assume you've added an extra "a" deliberately? -
ha, well, i posted there as i was sad to see that more and more singapore youths are getting this metality,,,,,,,,,,
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I've been through NS. I admit its tough, but it came with its rewards. I've learnt lots from my NS experience, especially about the real world out there.
It equipped me with the skills and put me in situations that i would definitely face in the working world(read: backstabbin').
My CSM once told me; 'If you can take the sh*t in NS, you can take the sh*t anywhere else.' I couldn't agree more. Just think, you get paid a few hundreds, slog like hell and get screamed at. Working out there ain't any worse than that.
My gf started working right after her studies. She would tell me tales of workplace horrors(read: backstabbin'). Every situation she described felt so fitting to what I've been through. -
Err, ditzy, is that "agree less" or "agree more"?
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PaisehOriginally posted by Gedanken:Err, ditzy, is that "agree less" or "agree more"? 
, typo. Edited. 
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Yes, 2.5yrs could be a waste of time.. but think it this way,
1st: u only use bout 5% of wat u learn in sch when u go out working. How many out there get a perfect dream job which they been chasing since school times? learning is a process, technology and informations is changing everyday, even if there no NS, one still need to update themselves with the laresr technology and social knowledge to keep themselves equiped.
2nd: working in army and outside social is typical the same, except prehaps u put in more longer labour work time. But dont forget tat they are time when one really slack in unit. During this period of time, cant one do some self-studying to improve their knowlegde?
3rd: It's allowance and not salary... U not working for SAF but providing a duty to it. Think bout it, if they do give NSF more allowance, where will the garmen find the money from? The tax money from the civilian lor, and who are these civilian? They are our parents and ourselves when we step into the working society. So rather being given a low allowance for 2.5yrs is better, or paying higher tax for the next 20 to 30 yrs is better?
Frds out there knew I hate army life.. But I hate it not becos it waste my time (okay, i admit sometime army does screw up my personal time), I hate it for the wayang-ness and the unfair system they have. But bo pian, without such wayang system in the country, neighbour countries will find chance to bully us. -
I think military NS is a valuable experience and should not be made optional as in the first comment posted by Ayukat.
Making it optional is detrimental to national security. Singapore with all its economic success can only continue to hold on as such with a deterent force. The more sucessful one is, the greater the effort should be to defend it because the greater will be the ambitions of others to take it from us. If we cannot defend what we have, all the sucess and number ones we have is not ours cos it can easily be snatched away.. -
Ayukat already mention "i rather the country fall than i die" in SAF forum "Will you die for Singapore in a war?-and other fun topics"
thread..
look at the 8 beautiful words he type..said it all..
i feel that its very contradicting of him..
he hate Singapore n yet concern abt the economy n NS of Singapore?
anybody with this attitude will never able to survive in the real world..unless he is some rich brat..or he is preparing to beg his way thru life..
well..fark him..im still gona stand my ground..hold my belief..dig my trenches.. share a ciggy with my buddy...scold him KNNBCCB..n still drink our beer..
who give a fark abt wat he says.. -
he would prefer the country to fall then he die?
wow.... this fella would probably sell his parents, friends, wife and children to save himself... -
Gentlemen, let's keep in mind that Ayukat has not performed his NS yet, and it's probably more a case of apprehension masquerading as haughtiness than anything else. For all that I'd written above, they had to drag me kicking and screaming into NS!
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those r kids..Originally posted by Agapae:at least we get better replies here.. who REALLY think before they type out a response.. Should have seen those replies in the "Bar".. Senseless.. Totally! It's a shame to see our boys shunning NS like it's some plague.. aye, a shame it is..
they'll eventually go through & grow up... -
I think the argument in Bar was about making it mandatory for women to serve NS as well. I'm not weak but I'm not that strong either, I don't think i can survive NS. I can't even stick to one job for more than a year Ged.
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hi lingos,Originally posted by Lingos:I think the argument in Bar was about making it mandatory for women to serve NS as well. I'm not weak but I'm not that strong either, I don't think i can survive NS. I can't even stick to one job for more than a year Ged.
not everyone was born strong. its the training n hardship of NS that maks ppl strong, physically n mentally.
sometimes its all in the mind, believe in yourself n you'll make it. -
The keyword here is NATIONAL SERVICE.
Everything else like pay/allowance and what you do (scolding or getting scolded) is all part of it.
Maybe 2.5 yrs in a row.....ya, that needs looking into. 6 - 12 solid months in the Brunei jungle is more effective (from BMT to SISPEC or OCS). Then maybe ICT.....
Make the best of it and learn something. SAF will also supply free high grade temperature resistant grease - just in case. I mean for camouflaging and sunblock purposes. -
Hheheh.. Lion02, thanks for the reply.Originally posted by lion02:hi lingos,
not everyone was born strong. its the training n hardship of NS that maks ppl strong, physically n mentally.
sometimes its all in the mind, believe in yourself n you'll make it.
I agree it's all in the mind. I went to a camp once in JC, i nearly died when I was commanded to absail down the 4 story wall -> fear of heights. In the end, i had to do it.. but it turned out to be alright. HHAHHH... I've heard some friends say that they had to absail face down on a cliff.. He said when forced to do something, they just find the guts to do it. i'm just wussy in that sense, i guess you're right, we can do anything if you had to. -
Ah yes, the good old Austrian rappel. That becomes fairly easy once you get the hang of it - you just have to make sure you don't trip on the way down.
It's not a question of physical strength. During BMT, I saw champion sportsmen fold under the pressure, while the outsider would not believe that some of our guys were actually Commandos by their appearance. As for the angle of holding on to a job, that's exactly the value of NS - it provides you with the endurance to gut it out over a long period. I've lost count of the number of people I've gotten the better of just by virtue of outlasting them. -
agree.Originally posted by Gedanken:Ah yes, the good old Austrian rappel. That becomes fairly easy once you get the hang of it - you just have to make sure you don't trip on the way down.
It's not a question of physical strength. During BMT, I saw champion sportsmen fold under the pressure, while the outsider would not believe that some of our guys were actually Commandos by their appearance. As for the angle of holding on to a job, that's exactly the value of NS - it provides you with the endurance to gut it out over a long period. I've lost count of the number of people I've gotten the better of just by virtue of outlasting them.
one of my platoon mate during bmt was physically super-fit, but can't take the pressure... went to woodbrigde, downgraded to pes e. -
Yeah, Mr Champion got pulled out after 6 weeks by Daddy, who was a bigshot at Singtel. He went on to become an officer (Engineers, I think). A bunch of us ran into him much later while we were rehearsing for the NDP - our boy just looked down and scuttled away, and our biggest challenge was trying to keep straight faces.
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wah, like that also can be officer....Originally posted by Gedanken:Yeah, Mr Champion got pulled out after 6 weeks by Daddy, who was a bigshot at Singtel. He went on to become an officer (Engineers, I think). A bunch of us ran into him much later while we were rehearsing for the NDP - our boy just looked down and scuttled away, and our biggest challenge was trying to keep straight faces.
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Well, he was supposed to be a White Horse, but I personally think that he was only one specific part of the horse's anatomy!
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Originally posted by Gedanken:Well, he was supposed to be a White Horse, but I personally think that he was only one specific part of the horse's anatomy!