NS SUCKS
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friend, you call this substance, sigh, one thing, you said the womans are not doing their duty, true, those who never add to the population are not doing their duty, but let me tell you this, i rather be shoot at then to bloody experience labour pain man.Originally posted by Ayukat:You guys want something with substance? Fine, I posted this before and I will do it again and of course I added some new points.
In my opinion, National Service should be made optional and for both men and women. National Service is a waste of time because it costs us 2 to 2.5 years of our entire lifetime and Singapore is too small its almost impossible to win a war and besides putting up a strong defence is useless as we are only wasting human resources and in the end what will be will be. Spending 2 to 2.5 years doing National Service rots our brain, we will probably forget everything we learn in school which means that we need to spend extra time reading up about stuff again and it hampers our chances to find a good job especially for those industries that improve all the time, it will be difficult to catch up. Although its true that National Service builds up confidence but only for a minority because more people are being scolded and shouted at during National Service than scolding and shouting at people. This will only make them lose their confidence and increases their stress which in turn leads to drinking and smoking, this could result in broken families as its easily addictive. National Service only provides us with a measly income every month where we could be earning tens of thousands contributing to the nation's economy during that 2 to 2.5 years. And also since National Service is being forced and not volunteered, who can ensure that during a war the soldiers will stay behind and fight for the country instead of running away? In the past, people claimed that women contribution to the country is by giving birth but nowadays the birthrate has decreased drastically does that mean they are still doing their " National Service " properly? Isn't it time they contribute 2 to 2.5 years of their entire life to the nation too? Even more importantly, it isn't right to force someone against their will to do things. No doubt, freedom comes with a price but why is only the men paying the price and not the women? The women get government subsidies too, school fees, transport fares .etc And how come people with higher degree of education have to serve for a longer period of time? No doubt, those people are more useful but their intelligence can be used else where like in improving the country's economic. If an average person lives up to for example 75 years old, ( 75/100 ) * 2.5 = 1.875 %. Its devoting 1.875 % percent of our life to the country. A country that we did not choose to be born in as we do not have a choice.
I know most of you would tell me to emigrate and I would gladly do that too if I had the money. Sure, you can have force conscription all you like, I won't complain but please make it fair to the people.
and you keep saying singapore will never win in any war and that a strong defence is useless. look at brunei! with their money they can become a power in ASIAN, but they are alwast push around, why? because of their weak defence!(althou i heard their weapon and equipment is US class). If singapore have a weak defence force, We would be push around by Malaysia and indonesia, we would be force to accept unreasonable water price, we would be force to PAY TRIBUTES! and if we really are in war, i hope you will have a nice time being push around by our invaders if we loss, or being call a COWARD, a loser or such by fellow mans who fought for their land, fought for their family, fought for themselve. in war, you loss when you first thought is, "OMG, we are gonna loss this!!!!"
and seriously, when you really ask, how many people fell they are forced to serve AFTER THEY finish serving, i think i can tell you i trust that at least 80percent of our fighting man will gladly say they are glad they serve.
PS: i haven serve yet, i don look forward to serving(due to my darned fitness, someone give advice on how to get gold from a NAPHA fail in 2 years). i hope by the end of the 2 years, i will be looking forward to paying my dues to my land. -
What a load of rubbish!Originally posted by Ayukat:You guys want something with substance? Fine, I posted this before and I will do it again and of course I added some new points.
In my opinion, National Service should be made optional and for both men and women. National Service is a waste of time because it costs us 2 to 2.5 years of our entire lifetime and Singapore is too small its almost impossible to win a war and besides putting up a strong defence is useless as we are only wasting human resources and in the end what will be will be. Spending 2 to 2.5 years doing National Service rots our brain, we will probably forget everything we learn in school which means that we need to spend extra time reading up about stuff again and it hampers our chances to find a good job especially for those industries that improve all the time, it will be difficult to catch up. Although its true that National Service builds up confidence but only for a minority because more people are being scolded and shouted at during National Service than scolding and shouting at people. This will only make them lose their confidence and increases their stress which in turn leads to drinking and smoking, this could result in broken families as its easily addictive. National Service only provides us with a measly income every month where we could be earning tens of thousands contributing to the nation's economy during that 2 to 2.5 years. And also since National Service is being forced and not volunteered, who can ensure that during a war the soldiers will stay behind and fight for the country instead of running away? In the past, people claimed that women contribution to the country is by giving birth but nowadays the birthrate has decreased drastically does that mean they are still doing their " National Service " properly? Isn't it time they contribute 2 to 2.5 years of their entire life to the nation too? Even more importantly, it isn't right to force someone against their will to do things. No doubt, freedom comes with a price but why is only the men paying the price and not the women? The women get government subsidies too, school fees, transport fares .etc And how come people with higher degree of education have to serve for a longer period of time? No doubt, those people are more useful but their intelligence can be used else where like in improving the country's economic. If an average person lives up to for example 75 years old, ( 75/100 ) * 2.5 = 1.875 %. Its devoting 1.875 % percent of our life to the country. A country that we did not choose to be born in as we do not have a choice.
I know most of you would tell me to emigrate and I would gladly do that too if I had the money. Sure, you can have force conscription all you like, I won't complain but please make it fair to the people.
1. "National Service should be made optional". People should not be made to pay taxes too? Then who would give you your subsidised education, HDB flats etc? Where would the funds to build up infra-structure come from?
2. "Singapore is too small its almost impossible to win a war". Did Israel win their wars because it is a giant sized country? The main thing in our context is NOT to lose the war - make it so costly for the enemy that they give up. And I am NOT saying that we will not win.
3."Spending 2 to 2.5 years doing National Service rots our brain". I don;t think you have to worry about that - you have not been using yours from what I can see.
4. "because more people are being scolded and shouted at during National Service ". Wake up to the real world. In working life, there are occassions where one is shouted at.
5. "This will only make them lose their confidence and increases their stress which in turn leads to drinking and smoking, this could result in broken families as its easily addictive". This is NOT caused by NS - it is because of the weakness of the individual who don't have the balls to take it and learn from it.
I actually have much more to say, but I tire - much of which had been said before if you had bothered to read.
Que sera sera -
What a load of rubbish!Originally posted by dragonstar:What a load of rubbish!
1. "National Service should be made optional". People should not be made to pay taxes too? Then who would give you your subsidised education, HDB flats etc? Where would the funds to build up infra-structure come from?
2. "Singapore is too small its almost impossible to win a war". Did Israel win their wars because it is a giant sized country? The main thing in our context is NOT to lose the war - make it so costly for the enemy that they give up. And I am NOT saying that we will not win.
3."Spending 2 to 2.5 years doing National Service rots our brain". I don;t think you have to worry about that - you have not been using yours from what I can see.
4. "because more people are being scolded and shouted at during National Service ". Wake up to the real world. In working life, there are occassions where one is shouted at.
5. "This will only make them lose their confidence and increases their stress which in turn leads to drinking and smoking, this could result in broken families as its easily addictive". This is NOT caused by NS - it is because of the weakness of the individual who don't have the balls to take it and learn from it.
I actually have much more to say, but I tire - much of which had been said before if you had bothered to read.
Que sera sera
1. Please do not compare it with taxes, NS drains tax payers. They use taxes to help us subsidise but isn't that our own money?
2. Sure you can make it as costly as it is till the enemies give up but you'll still suffer enormous loses and what if another countries tries to invade when we are still down?
3. You are the ones that are not using your brains, being brainwashed by the government and controlled around like a puppet.
4 & 5 are basically the same so I'll just sum them up.
4 & 5: Yes, they are weak and why do you want to cause them more trouble? -
So we should just give up? Let our families and girlfriends be raped or worse?Originally posted by Ayukat:Sure you can make it as costly as it is till the enemies give up but you'll still suffer enormous loses and what if another countries tries to invade when we are still down?
Maybe just for your sake we should rejoin Malaysia and let them defend us.
Oh shit, can't do that now can we, because your aim is not to do NS, and Malaysia has NS now, and what is more, girls in their NS.
You would almost certainly would not be able to stand up to young Malaysian girls and be bullied.
You have misunderstood me - I am saying YOU are weak.Originally posted by Ayukat:Yes, they are weak and why do you want to cause them more trouble? -
hehe... not exactly... I prefer the enemy to die for their country rather than we die for ours..Originally posted by dragonstar:I think what you mean is that "I prefer that other people die for ours!" - if they invade us :-)
for the record, I served 2 1/2 yrs in a Guards unit and am doing my reservist in a Armour unit.
If you really do not want to serve NS, become a Jehovah Witness and spend 3 yrs in DB. You get to spend yr days taking care of plants. -
Originally posted by Ayukat:What a load of rubbish!
1. Please do not compare it with taxes (why not?), NS drains tax payers (NS "wastes" 2.5 years of your life). They use taxes to help us subsidise but isn't that our own money? (for that 2.5 years of your life you make up the deterrence which means another 2.5 years of peace for the country and her citizens. get it? 2.5 years of your life= 2.5 years of peace for the country= 2.5 years of peace for you)
2. Sure you can make it as costly as it is till the enemies give up but you'll still suffer enormous loses and what if another countries tries to invade when we are still down? (have you any idea how a war starts and ends? and what makes you think that our next wave of invaders don't have their own enemies to worry about?)
3. You are the ones that are not using your brains, being brainwashed by the government and controlled around like a puppet. (whether or not your brain rots is up to you. the government doesn't stop you from reading up during your free time while serving NS. so, who to blame if you decide to whine during your free time?)
4 & 5 are basically the same so I'll just sum them up.
4 & 5: Yes, they are weak and why do you want to cause them more trouble? (let's say the "weak ones" skipped NS and stepped into the society. they were screamed at. self-esteem dips and they turn to smoking and alcohol, ruined lives. what say you? condemn the society? look around you, some schooling kids smoke and drink too. then what? condemn the school?)
why do you think you have the time now, sitting comfortably before the terminal and complain about NS? thank the people serving it now... -
How did you get from Guards to Armour? What is your vocation?Originally posted by kurios55:hehe... not exactly... I prefer the enemy to die for their country rather than we die for ours..
for the record, I served 2 1/2 yrs in a Guards unit and am doing my reservist in a Armour unit.
If you really do not want to serve NS, become a Jehovah Witness and spend 3 yrs in DB. You get to spend yr days taking care of plants.
At least I ended up back in Arty in NS, from gun to mortar (for which I had not been trained for). But after a week in ICT, qualified for command of 120 mortar and life firing. -
Did I mention my EQ is very low? That means I am very selfish who not cares about what happens to others and besides I am weak.Originally posted by dragonstar:You have misunderstood me - I am saying YOU are weak. -
*Repeat*
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Ayukat...please have some balls and stop complaining. Don't want to serve NS..? Go drown yourself. Period.
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And not in our reservoirs and contaminate our water supply.Originally posted by Jazzswing:Ayukat...please have some balls and stop complaining. Don't want to serve NS..? Go drown yourself. Period. -
Originally posted by Gedanken:Damned nice to know somebody's literate around these here parts, CX, unlike our friend Ayukat.
The line you paraphrased comes from George Patton's speech to the 6th Armored Division on 31 May 1944, perhaps the most famous speech he ever made. The actual line goes, "Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country".
More importantly, to Ayukat's flaccid stance, is the closing of Patton's speech: "Thirty years from now when you're sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee, and he asks you, What did you do in the great World War Two? You won't have to say, Well, I shoveled sh*t in Louisiana".
eh... u got the 2nd part right.. but i'm not sure if u got the first part... 
dulce et decorum est pro patria mori = it is sweet and honourable to die for one's country...
the poem of the same name was written by wilfred owen... that poem describes the bloody horrors of the trenches in WW 1... he was neither pro-war nor pro-military...
incidentally, i agree with some parts of his thoughts... "that old lie, dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" is one of them...
we do not fight for glory or grand rhetoric... once out in the field, u fight for survival and for the sake of your comrades beside u... if u're a rifleman, u wanna have a beer with your budddies afterwards. if u're a commander, its your responsibility to bring all your guys (as well as yourself) BACK.
there is no honour in death. but there is honour in fighting for things that u hold dear. NS helps us do that.
oh Ayukat, regarding the point that u get yelled at a lot in NS... u should check out some workplaces... both gov't AND private...
u go tell your stressed out boss that he shouldn't yell at u for not meeting your sales target... u go tell him that u pissed off his million dollar client... or go tell him that u shredded the only copy of an irreplaceable document... he can't make u run circles round a field or make u knock it down, but i guarantee u, its still friggin' unpleasant... u'ld rather he just makes u knock it down.
more pple become alcoholics from the above than from NS... in fact, some actually find it a welcomed reprieve (not quite holiday) from work... -
I can't do that. Firstly, I am a coward who is too afraid to die. Secondly, commiting suicide is an offense to the country, we got to listen to the government right? Thirdly, I wouldn't want to contaminate the water.Originally posted by Jazzswing:Ayukat...please have some balls and stop complaining. Don't want to serve NS..? Go drown yourself. Period. -
I can see you're same age as me. Which education institution are you in?
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i think these arguments have become quite pointless. we r all entitled to our own opinions. and i seriously doubt tt through these transactions he will change his mind about ns.
he has his own perception of it, and so he has to live with it. similarly, there is no point in both camps trying to convince each other that their own arguments are right and the opposite camps' is skewered. i think we all noe this is a fruitless exercise.
well since we dun bar ranting in this forum, i think we should let him continue to complain and kaopeh here. -
None yet. Why?
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just use your willpower to stop yourself from breathing then... no trace, no marks, no wounds... it'll be natural death.Originally posted by Ayukat:I can't do that. Firstly, I am a coward who is too afraid to die. Secondly, commiting suicide is an offense to the country, we got to listen to the government right? Thirdly, I wouldn't want to contaminate the water.
or u could eat your words and choke to death on them... that will be accidental cause.
either way, no crime.
anyway, someone already got a good idea for u... join J.W... can be gardener for 3 years, free food, free accommodation, plant flower, plant veggie and after that, NO RESERVIST. -
Can't choke on something (his words) that has no substance. LOLOriginally posted by CX:or u could eat your words and choke to death on them... that will be accidental cause. -
Not trying to change his mind, I know the futility of it when he would not even do his duty to safeguard himself or family.Originally posted by wuming78:i think these arguments have become quite pointless. we r all entitled to our own opinions. and i seriously doubt tt through these transactions he will change his mind about ns.
he has his own perception of it, and so he has to live with it. similarly, there is no point in both camps trying to convince each other that their own arguments are right and the opposite camps' is skewered. i think we all noe this is a fruitless exercise.
well since we dun bar ranting in this forum, i think we should let him continue to complain and kaopeh here.
Just poking to see what ingenious excuses that he can come up with :-) Really amazes me the extent of "illogic" that can be put forward to argue one's case. -
no substance? but its full of crap? of course can what... "substance" doesn't have to be positive...Originally posted by dragonstar:Can't choke on something (his words) that has no substance. LOL -
we are again flogging a dead horse here..... the complains and rebuttals are nothing new... in fact it is a pass down from our parents time.....
let's look at this objectively....
Why NS sucks? Possible explainations
1) There are people who are afraid of hardships but using 'wasting time' as an excuse to cover their tracks
2) Not wanting to leave your comfort zone e.g. your parents, girlfriendsand comfy bed
3) It is really a waste of time
4) Against the individual religious beliefs
5) PRs not wanting to contribute to the country who wants to stay but do not want to contribute
6) Lack of love for country
maybe someone here who major in psychology can do a paper on these of people and get mindef for funding!!!!
i have done my NS.... yes sometimes it sucks.... but overall i had some/many good experiences..... it made me a better person..... the character building during NS itself is valuable..... my advice is there both positive and negative things in whatever you do.... if you just focus on one side of the coin.... most often than not, you will be and remain unhappy.
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It finally stopped. Phew.
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haha... u wish... just say something stupid to start it up again.Originally posted by Ayukat:It finally stopped. Phew.
serve and find out for yourself before complaining... -
Aiyah, this thread should have ended a long time ago. If the kid wants to behave like this and entertain such a view about NS, who are we to stop him? When the time comes, he can either change his views about NS and see the real meaning and learn the things NS can teach us, or end up as another sabo king and maybe eventually another statistic.
Personally, if given a choice, I wouldn't have served as well. But since it was not my choice, I went in, did it, served my time and came out IMO a better person for it. At the end of the day, what you learn from NS is ultimately decided by YOU and you alone. -
Originally posted by Viper52:Aiyah, this thread should have ended a long time ago. If the kid wants to behave like this and entertain such a view about NS, who are we to stop him? When the time comes, he can either change his views about NS and see the real meaning and learn the things NS can teach us, or end up as another sabo king and maybe eventually another statistic.
Personally, if given a choice, I wouldn't have served as well. But since it was not my choice, I went in, did it, served my time and came out IMO a better person for it. At the end of the day, what you learn from NS is ultimately decided by YOU and you alone.