NS SUCKS
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Nice that you know about your own shortcomings. Now try to do something about them rather than expecting the world to change for you.Originally posted by Ayukat:Did I mention my EQ is very low? That means I am very selfish who not cares about what happens to others and besides I am weak.
Because that sure ain't gonna happen. -
This is my 5th month into my 2.5 years of service. Even though the training is tough, I can safely say that I am doing this for a cause. As mentioned before by other posters, freedom is not really free. It has to be strived for, and sometimes can cost lives. However, we as a species do honour freedom a lot, and that gives us cause to support a stint in the armed forces.
Firstly, the armed forces are our only line of defence against a military offensive by any party (given the terrorist threat, countries are not the exclusive danger to our way of live).
How do you expect to party all the way till 3 am in the morning, and expect to get home without being robbed, mobbed or murdered? Our police force does that. How do you expect to have a vibrant economy without being in the target sights of some evil empire power? The defence forces' deterrance does it. Without these, we are as vulnerable as we were during World War II.
True, we might not be a match to an offensive by big countries. But I am sure that all of us here will would rather die fighting than to let our friends, families and relatives suffer under an occupation power. Just look at Iraq. Insurgents targetting American forces show a determination to defend their way of live. As one of the poster goes, "You will defend what you treasure".
"Freedom - It isn't free:
The ironic thing about freedom is - it isn't really free."
Martin Luther King Jr. died to stop discrimination against the blacks. What then is the 2.5 years of your life compared to Mr Luther's sacrifice?
Of course, if you have nothing worth defending, then I would strongly encourage you to find one, or else you would be just an empty shell living a life without anything worth treasuring.
Being a small country, we cannot afford to have a professional army. Heck, the number of sign-ons are pathetic, even after constant promotion.
Regarding your argument about people against NS, I am inclined to disagree with you. In fact, all my friends are positive towards serving NS, and so am I. I am clear that I am one piece of the puzzle which would determine our fate as a nation. The very security we have comes solely from the widely known deterrance of our defence force. Without this deterrance, we are toast.
On a personal ground, this commitment has taken a toll. I am taking time off from doing other stuff to do this, and there is also the nerve wracking enlistment process (couldn't sleep the night before my enlistment day, and my new posting), all new environment to adjust to, along with disciplining to do. I have to learn to accept people's weakness, and to not reject outright people with glaring character flaws (everyone has his/her problems, but some are more obvious than others). Overall, as of the end of my BMT, I have learnt some very important lessons in human relations indeed. In fact, doing NS could just be the closest thing to the real world outside there, without the disastrous consequences (i.e. losing your job).
Even as a clerk, my friend has learnt to live with and accept unreasonable superiors who back-stab him from behind. He is also learning to watch his back, even as he tries not to alienate or lose any potential allies.
This is no time to be selfish. We live in a dangerous world indeed. Serve your term as of all the generations before you have done, or you will have to suffer the humiliation of being shunned by society. -
GAHHH!!! BED BUGS? *shudders*Originally posted by sepjc96:and the sponge mattress have hell lot of bed bugs if u forget to mention, i was in PLC and had sleepless nite... -
er..Originally posted by dragonstar:How did you get from Guards to Armour? What is your vocation?
At least I ended up back in Arty in NS, from gun to mortar (for which I had not been trained for). But after a week in ICT, qualified for command of 120 mortar and life firing.
dunno whether good thing or not.. Guards operating tempo is higher but Armour life more relax.. ahha.. vocation is a common one but dun think can tell you about the unit.
hmm.. 1 week enuff for mortar ar? -
Well, SOPs are the same. Only need to learn about weapon specs, ammo specs, weapon handling, ammo preparation and (most difficult of all) weapon sight.Originally posted by kurios55:er..
dunno whether good thing or not.. Guards operating tempo is higher but Armour life more relax.. ahha.. vocation is a common one but dun think can tell you about the unit.
hmm.. 1 week enuff for mortar ar? -
guess i miss most of the good show. here's my view. sorry to post this but i guess it is nice to see it from a different perspective. a female perspective.
i am a female combat offr in the army. i dont deny that the reason i join the army was for a nice overseas scholarship. but at the same time i am inspired by my dad who was in the airforce till he retired. i always thought that i should perhaps contribute in a certain way to my country. has always been interested in history and politics so i did read up on all the stuff that happen in SEA. that strengthen my resolve to actually go in to enlist. cos i feel everything i have here is worth protecting no matter how relatively poor my family is.
but each exercise that i go through. each new training that i go through teaches me new stuff in terms of knowledge. but more importantly, it teaches me something new about myself. my strength and weakness. my limits. these are the lessons i value. i value the commaraderie with my female cohort greatly. the friends i made through the times we suffered together.
during my training there were times that my strength fails me. i question myself on y the hell am i doing this. i have no liabilty, i could most probably get another scholarship. there just is no need for me to go to the army for an education. i cried many times (afterall i am a gal). but after each crying session which my poor buddy takes to comfort me, i always take it as it comes. each book out day is a celebration each book in day looking forward to the next book out.
i understand the anguish with regards to how people perceive NS as a terrible thing. a waste of time. i believe there are some regulars who feel that way at one point or another. but the thing is that we move on. we get out of the how army sucks mentality to what we can do to make things a little better.
through all the xiong training and shit that the instructors dish out, i was very proud that i actually made it. proud of the fact that i commissioned. just as i see my guys when they POP, turn Ops and go on to ord. much as they dislike army, i see their sense of achievement and am proud of them as well. how proud they were when their parents visited, their gf stand in awe of them. and the best perk of the job is when parents tell me how much more responsible their son became.
i am not saying the job is the best for everyone. but there are perks in there too. it is upsetting to see guys saying how much NS sucks before they give it a chance. but u have not been there and u are complaining. post again when u ord and rod and see if your perspective change.
as a female i wonder what kind of guy u really are. i really dont think your family would be secure knowing that u will run away at the first sign of trouble. when u have a wife, children, and more u would probably have a different view. i know i want a guy who would stand and fight.
proud of the fact that my extended family has people who believes that singapore is worth fighting for and will fight. quite a number of us are in the armed forces. and that my brother is thinking of making it a career.
u wont fight at the sign of trouble. but i assure you that my family and i would fight for u. -
very nice saying. i agreeOriginally posted by wocc:guess i miss most of the good show. here's my view. sorry to post this but i guess it is nice to see it from a different perspective. a female perspective.
i am a female combat offr in the army. i dont deny that the reason i join the army was for a nice overseas scholarship. but at the same time i am inspired by my dad who was in the airforce till he retired. i always thought that i should perhaps contribute in a certain way to my country. has always been interested in history and politics so i did read up on all the stuff that happen in SEA. that strengthen my resolve to actually go in to enlist. cos i feel everything i have here is worth protecting no matter how relatively poor my family is.
but each exercise that i go through. each new training that i go through teaches me new stuff in terms of knowledge. but more importantly, it teaches me something new about myself. my strength and weakness. my limits. these are the lessons i value. i value the commaraderie with my female cohort greatly. the friends i made through the times we suffered together.
during my training there were times that my strength fails me. i question myself on y the hell am i doing this. i have no liabilty, i could most probably get another scholarship. there just is no need for me to go to the army for an education. i cried many times (afterall i am a gal). but after each crying session which my poor buddy takes to comfort me, i always take it as it comes. each book out day is a celebration each book in day looking forward to the next book out.
i understand the anguish with regards to how people perceive NS as a terrible thing. a waste of time. i believe there are some regulars who feel that way at one point or another. but the thing is that we move on. we get out of the how army sucks mentality to what we can do to make things a little better.
through all the xiong training and shit that the instructors dish out, i was very proud that i actually made it. proud of the fact that i commissioned. just as i see my guys when they POP, turn Ops and go on to ord. much as they dislike army, i see their sense of achievement and am proud of them as well. how proud they were when their parents visited, their gf stand in awe of them. and the best perk of the job is when parents tell me how much more responsible their son became.
i am not saying the job is the best for everyone. but there are perks in there too. it is upsetting to see guys saying how much NS sucks before they give it a chance. but u have not been there and u are complaining. post again when u ord and rod and see if your perspective change.
as a female i wonder what kind of guy u really are. i really dont think your family would be secure knowing that u will run away at the first sign of trouble. when u have a wife, children, and more u would probably have a different view. i know i want a guy who would stand and fight.
proud of the fact that my extended family has people who believes that singapore is worth fighting for and will fight. quite a number of us are in the armed forces. and that my brother is thinking of making it a career.
u wont fight at the sign of trouble. but i assure you that my family and i would fight for u.
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sigh.....only i feel that a %^%(^%^ like him us not worth fighting for..........Originally posted by wocc:guess i miss most of the good show. here's my view. sorry to post this but i guess it is nice to see it from a different perspective. a female perspective.
i am a female combat offr in the army. i dont deny that the reason i join the army was for a nice overseas scholarship. but at the same time i am inspired by my dad who was in the airforce till he retired. i always thought that i should perhaps contribute in a certain way to my country. has always been interested in history and politics so i did read up on all the stuff that happen in SEA. that strengthen my resolve to actually go in to enlist. cos i feel everything i have here is worth protecting no matter how relatively poor my family is.
but each exercise that i go through. each new training that i go through teaches me new stuff in terms of knowledge. but more importantly, it teaches me something new about myself. my strength and weakness. my limits. these are the lessons i value. i value the commaraderie with my female cohort greatly. the friends i made through the times we suffered together.
during my training there were times that my strength fails me. i question myself on y the hell am i doing this. i have no liabilty, i could most probably get another scholarship. there just is no need for me to go to the army for an education. i cried many times (afterall i am a gal). but after each crying session which my poor buddy takes to comfort me, i always take it as it comes. each book out day is a celebration each book in day looking forward to the next book out.
i understand the anguish with regards to how people perceive NS as a terrible thing. a waste of time. i believe there are some regulars who feel that way at one point or another. but the thing is that we move on. we get out of the how army sucks mentality to what we can do to make things a little better.
through all the xiong training and shit that the instructors dish out, i was very proud that i actually made it. proud of the fact that i commissioned. just as i see my guys when they POP, turn Ops and go on to ord. much as they dislike army, i see their sense of achievement and am proud of them as well. how proud they were when their parents visited, their gf stand in awe of them. and the best perk of the job is when parents tell me how much more responsible their son became.
i am not saying the job is the best for everyone. but there are perks in there too. it is upsetting to see guys saying how much NS sucks before they give it a chance. but u have not been there and u are complaining. post again when u ord and rod and see if your perspective change.
as a female i wonder what kind of guy u really are. i really dont think your family would be secure knowing that u will run away at the first sign of trouble. when u have a wife, children, and more u would probably have a different view. i know i want a guy who would stand and fight.
proud of the fact that my extended family has people who believes that singapore is worth fighting for and will fight. quite a number of us are in the armed forces. and that my brother is thinking of making it a career.
u wont fight at the sign of trouble. but i assure you that my family and i would fight for u. -
That's an arty officer speaking sense - 3 cheers for arty!!!Originally posted by wocc:guess i miss most of the good show. here's my view. sorry to post this but i guess it is nice to see it from a different perspective. a female perspective.
i am a female combat offr in the army. i dont deny that the reason i join the army was for a nice overseas scholarship. but at the same time i am inspired by my dad who was in the airforce till he retired. i always thought that i should perhaps contribute in a certain way to my country. has always been interested in history and politics so i did read up on all the stuff that happen in SEA. that strengthen my resolve to actually go in to enlist. cos i feel everything i have here is worth protecting no matter how relatively poor my family is.
but each exercise that i go through. each new training that i go through teaches me new stuff in terms of knowledge. but more importantly, it teaches me something new about myself. my strength and weakness. my limits. these are the lessons i value. i value the commaraderie with my female cohort greatly. the friends i made through the times we suffered together.
during my training there were times that my strength fails me. i question myself on y the hell am i doing this. i have no liabilty, i could most probably get another scholarship. there just is no need for me to go to the army for an education. i cried many times (afterall i am a gal). but after each crying session which my poor buddy takes to comfort me, i always take it as it comes. each book out day is a celebration each book in day looking forward to the next book out.
i understand the anguish with regards to how people perceive NS as a terrible thing. a waste of time. i believe there are some regulars who feel that way at one point or another. but the thing is that we move on. we get out of the how army sucks mentality to what we can do to make things a little better.
through all the xiong training and shit that the instructors dish out, i was very proud that i actually made it. proud of the fact that i commissioned. just as i see my guys when they POP, turn Ops and go on to ord. much as they dislike army, i see their sense of achievement and am proud of them as well. how proud they were when their parents visited, their gf stand in awe of them. and the best perk of the job is when parents tell me how much more responsible their son became.
i am not saying the job is the best for everyone. but there are perks in there too. it is upsetting to see guys saying how much NS sucks before they give it a chance. but u have not been there and u are complaining. post again when u ord and rod and see if your perspective change.
as a female i wonder what kind of guy u really are. i really dont think your family would be secure knowing that u will run away at the first sign of trouble. when u have a wife, children, and more u would probably have a different view. i know i want a guy who would stand and fight.
proud of the fact that my extended family has people who believes that singapore is worth fighting for and will fight. quite a number of us are in the armed forces. and that my brother is thinking of making it a career.
u wont fight at the sign of trouble. but i assure you that my family and i would fight for u. -
cheers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well Said Ayukat! I feel exactly the same way as you. But i feel its no point getting your word across here as most of the clowns here just wanna debate and flame to feed their big ego.Originally posted by Ayukat:You guys want something with substance? Fine, I posted this before and I will do it again and of course I added some new points.
In my opinion, National Service should be made optional and for both men and women. National Service is a waste of time because it costs us 2 to 2.5 years of our entire lifetime and Singapore is too small its almost impossible to win a war and besides putting up a strong defence is useless as we are only wasting human resources and in the end what will be will be. Spending 2 to 2.5 years doing National Service rots our brain, we will probably forget everything we learn in school which means that we need to spend extra time reading up about stuff again and it hampers our chances to find a good job especially for those industries that improve all the time, it will be difficult to catch up. Although its true that National Service builds up confidence but only for a minority because more people are being scolded and shouted at during National Service than scolding and shouting at people. This will only make them lose their confidence and increases their stress which in turn leads to drinking and smoking, this could result in broken families as its easily addictive. National Service only provides us with a measly income every month where we could be earning tens of thousands contributing to the nation's economy during that 2 to 2.5 years. And also since National Service is being forced and not volunteered, who can ensure that during a war the soldiers will stay behind and fight for the country instead of running away? In the past, people claimed that women contribution to the country is by giving birth but nowadays the birthrate has decreased drastically does that mean they are still doing their " National Service " properly? Isn't it time they contribute 2 to 2.5 years of their entire life to the nation too? Even more importantly, it isn't right to force someone against their will to do things. No doubt, freedom comes with a price but why is only the men paying the price and not the women? The women get government subsidies too, school fees, transport fares .etc And how come people with higher degree of education have to serve for a longer period of time? No doubt, those people are more useful but their intelligence can be used else where like in improving the country's economic. If an average person lives up to for example 75 years old, ( 75/100 ) * 2.5 = 1.875 %. Its devoting 1.875 % percent of our life to the country. A country that we did not choose to be born in as we do not have a choice.
I know most of you would tell me to emigrate and I would gladly do that too if I had the money. Sure, you can have force conscription all you like, I won't complain but please make it fair to the people.
NS is simply a waste of time for MANY...
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NS is affecting our economy and mindset - by sirtyous
I personally know many male korean friends who studied with me in Boston whose parents are rich and they NEVER EVER have front line duties. some of their vocations include army generals driver (no need any IPPT , coz general is daddys friend), airforce technician (in an airforce museum), MP (in daddy friends barracks)etc. Even Koreans themselves admit to this practice that the rich people often buy their way out of dangerous and stressful vocations.
Most of them get married after college, bring their wives over here and when their kids give birth here, get green card and eventually american citizenship. To hell with Army.
Do agree with you that NS is and will always be a liability to the males who have to do it. People can argue all they want that it builts character, its a ritual of manhood, that it teaches the youth about hardship and life, toughen them up, but in reality, this is complete bullshit.
I have seen people from non-conscription countries perform as well, if not much better in these areas. They are also more innovative, have a less regard for authority when they sense no need to and generally more flexible and tactful in their ways. There is much better ways to built character and boarden horizons then submit yourself to unnessary suffering and at times humiliation. I think the same results can be achieved with much less suffering and time spent in the process.
In contrast, I see a painfully obvious lack of self-confidence in the males of those whose country have conscription that those that dont. They tend to not be able to mix with people of other races and culture and only mix around with others of their same background.
These include Taiwanese, Koreans & Singaporeans. They become uncomfortable around people of different culture and they need to be around their own people to constantly reassure themselves that they exist.
A personal friend who is a professor in MIT told me how they view Singaporeans in general . Lack of courage to fail. Oh sure, they will write a lot of ideas and creative proposals, but since they are so afraid to fail, they will finally choose the ideas that are most fail- prove and unfortunately the most lack-lusture ones. It gets worse with scholars or staff from government related companies as they rather not do anything then to risk upsetting their status- quo. Tell me, dont you think most singaporeans are like that?
As much as I think Singaporeans need NS, it is slowly killing off the fighting spirits of the people ( particularly male ) as a whole. Its the throw the frog in hot water or slowly boil it symdrone. Compare singaporeans people or businesses (enterprenurship) today to those 20 years or even 10 years ago. Most GLC singaporean businesses cannot compete outside Singapore. Singapore woman cannot compete inside or outside singapore. And now, Singaporeans cannot even compete inside their own country for jobs with FTs. The education system certainly have some blame to take, but its the subsequent dilution of the can-do siprit of 2 or more generations of the Singapore culture that resulted in the present no-risk mentality.
Personally, I believe that if SG govt have the foresight to develop a friendly relationship with its neighbours instead of trying to piss them off and constantly trying to win a virtual arms race, there would never be a need for NS. Sure, there is always a defence need, but it would be more of a defensive force and not an offensive mindset as we have presently have due to the they will attack me mentality. right now, IMO, NS is only a brainwashing and innoculation process to maintain a certain degree of predictability in the majority of the population so that their behavior and trains of thought are easier to foresee and therefore control. As Singapore is still a traditional mindset society, males generally have a higher status in a way in the family. Controlling the males will mean controlling the family unit as a whole.
In light of todays military defence technology, there is no longer a need for a human intensive army, especially for a small city state like Singapore. -
BIG mistake............everyone knows that an army alwast will need people....obviously you don't really knows military........Originally posted by Flashgalaxy:In light of todays military defence technology, there is no longer a need for a human intensive army, especially for a small city state like Singapore. -
Yup... here comes the clowns who are just waiting to feed their Ego.. there's one just above and soon to be many more below!!
Let the ego feeding begin! i'll check back in like 1 mth! -
Me going in on June 8th, not really worried about NS, more worried about after NS work as what, stil waiting for airforce reply...
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To mentally weak clowns like you who can't take the training and the regimental life, it is bullSHIT and a liability. So in your opinion what is not bullSHIT?Originally posted by Flashgalaxy:Do agree with you that NS is and will always be a liability to the males who have to do it. People can argue all they want that it builts character, its a ritual of manhood, that it teaches the youth about hardship and life, toughen them up, but in reality, this is complete bullshit.I have seen people from non-conscription countries perform as well, if not much better in these areas. They are also more innovative, have a less regard for authority when they sense no need to and generally more flexible and tactful in their ways. There is much better ways to built character and boarden horizons then submit yourself to unnessary suffering and at times humiliation. I think the same results can be achieved with much less suffering and time spent in the process.
Did you conduct a statistical investigation on that? Is that the only conclusion you can draw from your biased study? Did you examined conscription in Israel and other countries beside the ones you mentioned? For you information, conscription has no bearing on a person's innovativeness. It is rather the education and the way a person is brought up that influence it. One good example, if conscription is bad for being innovative, pray tell me how is it that an israeli was the person that came up with corner shot (a device that allows a gun to be fired at an angle). Having less regard for authority and being flexible and tactful is not the result of no conscription, it is the way a society that a person is brought up in that is the cause. You might think that less regard of authority is good, maybe sometimes in terms of work. However, would you like to live in a society where people just come in and rob you? Would you like your kid to shout at you "Hey, dickhead, where's my allowance?"In contrast, I see a painfully obvious lack of self-confidence in the males of those whose country have conscription that those that dont. They tend to not be able to mix with people of other races and culture and only mix around with others of their same background.
Don't you think this is generalising the whole lot. I studied in UK and being around a lot and I don't see that happening often? Singapore students in Oxford, Cambridge and other UK universities that I met do not seem to possess the trait you mentioned. I see students from Singapore, Taiwan, Korea mixing around with the locals. At times when they keep to themselves, that's when the local actually doesn't wish to mix with them.
These include Taiwanese, Koreans & Singaporeans. They become uncomfortable around people of different culture and they need to be around their own people to constantly reassure themselves that they exist.A personal friend who is a professor in MIT told me how they view Singaporeans in general . Lack of courage to fail. Oh sure, they will write a lot of ideas and creative proposals, but since they are so afraid to fail, they will finally choose the ideas that are most fail- prove and unfortunately the most lack-lusture ones. It gets worse with scholars or staff from government related companies as they rather not do anything then to risk upsetting their status- quo. Tell me, dont you think most singaporeans are like that?
So what has these got to do with NS? This seems to me that this is due to the sheltered life in Singapore that is the cause of these and not the result of NS.As much as I think Singaporeans need NS, it is slowly killing off the fighting spirits of the people ( particularly male ) as a whole. Its the throw the frog in hot water or slowly boil it symdrone. Compare singaporeans people or businesses (enterprenurship) today to those 20 years or even 10 years ago. Most GLC singaporean businesses cannot compete outside Singapore. Singapore woman cannot compete inside or outside singapore. And now, Singaporeans cannot even compete inside their own country for jobs with FTs. The education system certainly have some blame to take, but its the subsequent dilution of the can-do siprit of 2 or more generations of the Singapore culture that resulted in the present no-risk mentality.
I don't understand your point about NS killing the fighting spirits of the people.Personally, I believe that if SG govt have the foresight to develop a friendly relationship with its neighbours instead of trying to piss them off and constantly trying to win a virtual arms race, there would never be a need for NS. Sure, there is always a defence need, but it would be more of a defensive force and not an offensive mindset as we have presently have due to the they will attack me mentality. right now, IMO, NS is only a brainwashing and innoculation process to maintain a certain degree of predictability in the majority of the population so that their behavior and trains of thought are easier to foresee and therefore control. As Singapore is still a traditional mindset society, males generally have a higher status in a way in the family. Controlling the males will mean controlling the family unit as a whole.
In Sun Tzu art of war, the best defense is an offense. We are preparing for the possibility of war and not for the need of war. Given the lack of strategic depth, there exists a need for an offensive doctorine. Can you guarantee that if Singapore is to scrap away NS, there will be no war? Can you guarantee that our neighbours or any bigger country will not walk all over us. So, old wise clown, what do you suggest then?
It is because of our strong deterrent armed forces that are preventing all these from happening. It is due to our armed forces that Singapore is able to establish herself and bring in investments. We pissing our neighbours off? Get that in your big fat head that whenever our neighbours have some domestic problems, Singapore is always the boogie man, it is more likely the other way round about who is pissing who off. For e.g. who's FM actually threaten us with war?
About the brainwashing bit, IMO, that's a flawed logic on your part. In which countries armed forces do they have more women? Ever since the beginning of the human race, the male has always dominated in taking part in a conflict. Some conspiracy theory you have there. 'Wonderful' imagination from a clown.In light of todays military defence technology, there is no longer a need for a human intensive army, especially for a small city state like Singapore.
In light of today's unpredictability of the world political stage, all the more there is a need for a strong deterrent force. Having said that, given present defense technology, a small city state like Singapore ought to invest in more force multiplier platforms and build up an even stronger armed forces to discourage anyone from even thinking of bullying us! -
Talking about ego, it would seem that you are the biggest clown with a really big ego to feed. To most of the people here in this forum, we will gladly engage in a meaningful discussion with you. However, if you want to get started on badmouthing others, be prepared to get your share from others. Remember, what goes around comes around.Originally posted by Flashgalaxy:Yup... here comes the clowns who are just waiting to feed their Ego.. there's one just above and soon to be many more below!!
Let the ego feeding begin! i'll check back in like 1 mth! -
Interesting theory - at face value. That is, until you consider that the writer has not accounted for the influence of the social and educational systems in Singapore. Even if (and that's a big "if") the author is correct in his assertions about Singaporeans' performance overseas relative to students of other countries, his conclusion that it is due to NS is baseless because it fails to acknowledge the effects of possible confounding factors, much less accomodate for and systematically exclude them. In short, that impressive-sounding tripe posted is so full of holes it couldn't even double as a sponge.Originally posted by sirtyous:I have seen people from non-conscription countries perform as well, if not much better in these areas. They are also more innovative, have a less regard for authority when they sense no need to and generally more flexible and tactful in their ways. There is much better ways to built character and boarden horizons then submit yourself to unnessary suffering and at times humiliation. I think the same results can be achieved with much less suffering and time spent in the process.
In contrast, I see a painfully obvious lack of self-confidence in the males of those whose country have conscription that those that dont. They tend to not be able to mix with people of other races and culture and only mix around with others of their same background.
These include Taiwanese, Koreans & Singaporeans. They become uncomfortable around people of different culture and they need to be around their own people to constantly reassure themselves that they exist.
A personal friend who is a professor in MIT told me how they view Singaporeans in general . Lack of courage to fail. Oh sure, they will write a lot of ideas and creative proposals, but since they are so afraid to fail, they will finally choose the ideas that are most fail- prove and unfortunately the most lack-lusture ones. It gets worse with scholars or staff from government related companies as they rather not do anything then to risk upsetting their status- quo. Tell me, dont you think most singaporeans are like that?
Better luck next time. -
the younger gen are getting more and more pampered......
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I am not going to comment on this, not because I have nothing to say but I have the feeling that after that post that guy is going to disappear just like the person that started this Topic.
Anyway, well said and we won't get any support over here, after all this forums is called Millary Nuts. What do you expect? -
Wow. Nice post ma'am. Can I get to know you? I chao pte only. Just kidding.Originally posted by wocc:guess i miss most of the good show. here's my view. sorry to post this but i guess it is nice to see it from a different perspective. a female perspective.
i am a female combat offr in the army. i dont deny that the reason i join the army was for a nice overseas scholarship. but at the same time i am inspired by my dad who was in the airforce till he retired. i always thought that i should perhaps contribute in a certain way to my country. has always been interested in history and politics so i did read up on all the stuff that happen in SEA. that strengthen my resolve to actually go in to enlist. cos i feel everything i have here is worth protecting no matter how relatively poor my family is.
but each exercise that i go through. each new training that i go through teaches me new stuff in terms of knowledge. but more importantly, it teaches me something new about myself. my strength and weakness. my limits. these are the lessons i value. i value the commaraderie with my female cohort greatly. the friends i made through the times we suffered together.
during my training there were times that my strength fails me. i question myself on y the hell am i doing this. i have no liabilty, i could most probably get another scholarship. there just is no need for me to go to the army for an education. i cried many times (afterall i am a gal). but after each crying session which my poor buddy takes to comfort me, i always take it as it comes. each book out day is a celebration each book in day looking forward to the next book out.
i understand the anguish with regards to how people perceive NS as a terrible thing. a waste of time. i believe there are some regulars who feel that way at one point or another. but the thing is that we move on. we get out of the how army sucks mentality to what we can do to make things a little better.
through all the xiong training and shit that the instructors dish out, i was very proud that i actually made it. proud of the fact that i commissioned. just as i see my guys when they POP, turn Ops and go on to ord. much as they dislike army, i see their sense of achievement and am proud of them as well. how proud they were when their parents visited, their gf stand in awe of them. and the best perk of the job is when parents tell me how much more responsible their son became.
i am not saying the job is the best for everyone. but there are perks in there too. it is upsetting to see guys saying how much NS sucks before they give it a chance. but u have not been there and u are complaining. post again when u ord and rod and see if your perspective change.
as a female i wonder what kind of guy u really are. i really dont think your family would be secure knowing that u will run away at the first sign of trouble. when u have a wife, children, and more u would probably have a different view. i know i want a guy who would stand and fight.
proud of the fact that my extended family has people who believes that singapore is worth fighting for and will fight. quite a number of us are in the armed forces. and that my brother is thinking of making it a career.
u wont fight at the sign of trouble. but i assure you that my family and i would fight for u.
Rank aside.
I agree with some of your comments. True, SAF is a place where one can really develop if he/she really puts his/her heart and mind to it.
No one can argue the need for national defense, and the fact is. No matter who you are, lan lan have to serve. Serve 2.5 years an kiss SAF goodbye.... until your next ICT.
But the fact of the matter is, the SAF is full of screwed up regulars (not all) who joined the SAF for the money, free clothing, healthcare, lodging and food. They have absolutely no passion for their chosen careers and do not discharge their duties as commanders in the SAF diligently. Instead, they "assign" all their work and duties to the poor NSF specialists, who end up doing their jobs on their behalf. These scrwedup regulars then "smoke out" until it is time to fall out and cannot be contacted until then.
I dare say this cos I see them all the time, and am on the recieving end of their "assignments." There is nothing much we can do about it, since they are after all our superiors. And seriously speaking, even after bringing up these issues to higher authorities, nobody seemed to care.
Having to work under such "leaders", I don't blame soldiers for not having any passion to serve or exert responsibility in their duties since their superiors have been such negative examples.
As an officer, your perspective on such matters may not be as broad as you think. Ironically, the broader view you have, the narrower the perspective. After a while, the men sees this and would start to heck care also. All they bother about would be their ORD date. IF their bosses can't be bothered to do their work, why should they?
Such irresponsible personnel are the people who have given the SAF such a bad reputation that when guys ORD, they have nothing good to say about their time in the army, other than the proud moments they had and their tough times in training. Beyond that, the answer is the usual, "NS SUCKS." Thanks to a certain amount of blacksheep regulars.
I concure with the statement, "NS SUCKS." Having to work with a55holes that simply dont give a damn, and push all the work to us. I feel I have a right to say that. At the same time, I am proud of the times I spent in training, and the bull5hit that me and my colleagues have to work our way through.
Between my colleagues and I, it is us that keeps our portion of the Army running. Without us, our part of the Army is as good as dead. Cos we are the ones doing ALL the bloody work.
Cheers. Just my alternate perspective on this Topic. -
Yes, I totally agreed with you!! A friend of mine in order to avoid NS full time decide to sign on the Police Force. That was almost 10 years ago though. But he made his choice. I made mine by climbing into that 3-tonner in CMPB. Till now, I never regretted a thing of NS last time, now or in the future.Originally posted by pkchukiss:This is my 5th month into my 2.5 years of service. Even though the training is tough, I can safely say that I am doing this for a cause. As mentioned before by other posters, freedom is not really free. It has to be strived for, and sometimes can cost lives. However, we as a species do honour freedom a lot, and that gives us cause to support a stint in the armed forces.
Firstly, the armed forces are our only line of defence against a military offensive by any party (given the terrorist threat, countries are not the exclusive danger to our way of live).
How do you expect to party all the way till 3 am in the morning, and expect to get home without being robbed, mobbed or murdered? Our police force does that. How do you expect to have a vibrant economy without being in the target sights of some evil empire power? The defence forces' deterrance does it. Without these, we are as vulnerable as we were during World War II.
True, we might not be a match to an offensive by big countries. But I am sure that all of us here will would rather die fighting than to let our friends, families and relatives suffer under an occupation power. Just look at Iraq. Insurgents targetting American forces show a determination to defend their way of live. As one of the poster goes, "You will defend what you treasure".
"Freedom - It isn't free:
The ironic thing about freedom is - it isn't really free."
Martin Luther King Jr. died to stop discrimination against the blacks. What then is the 2.5 years of your life compared to Mr Luther's sacrifice?
Of course, if you have nothing worth defending, then I would strongly encourage you to find one, or else you would be just an empty shell living a life without anything worth treasuring.
Being a small country, we cannot afford to have a professional army. Heck, the number of sign-ons are pathetic, even after constant promotion.
Regarding your argument about people against NS, I am inclined to disagree with you. In fact, all my friends are positive towards serving NS, and so am I. I am clear that I am one piece of the puzzle which would determine our fate as a nation. The very security we have comes solely from the widely known deterrance of our defence force. Without this deterrance, we are toast.
On a personal ground, this commitment has taken a toll. I am taking time off from doing other stuff to do this, and there is also the nerve wracking enlistment process (couldn't sleep the night before my enlistment day, and my new posting), all new environment to adjust to, along with disciplining to do. I have to learn to accept people's weakness, and to not reject outright people with glaring character flaws (everyone has his/her problems, but some are more obvious than others). Overall, as of the end of my BMT, I have learnt some very important lessons in human relations indeed. In fact, doing NS could just be the closest thing to the real world outside there, without the disastrous consequences (i.e. losing your job).
Even as a clerk, my friend has learnt to live with and accept unreasonable superiors who back-stab him from behind. He is also learning to watch his back, even as he tries not to alienate or lose any potential allies.
This is no time to be selfish. We live in a dangerous world indeed. Serve your term as of all the generations before you have done, or you will have to suffer the humiliation of being shunned by society. -
I totally Agreed that it is a waste of time, placing us guys into a very unfavourable circumstances when we are employ later in society... being 1. reservist. 2. lack of job experience compare to girls..... But I believe that one day, NS will be more flexible being the changing needs to cope demands of pple.... if u really wan to study u can applied to do night classes, so don't think it is a prob...dude you are still young to understand alot of things..... NS is just one of them..... (by the way I'm not a military enthusiast)Originally posted by alpha_boy:yeah i know every1 would be dieing to get mi, as i noe tt alot of u(maybe some) like ns.....but just wanna say tt ns sucks.....sorry for disrupting but ns really sucks......wasting 2 and a half yrs for some bloody farking military training....can use this time to study man!! there r so many negative aspects of ns tt u can't even count....
so to all military enthusiasts.........JUST WANNA SAY TT IF U LIKE NS,U R A FARKING BASTERD!!!
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Should change the topic as ARMY good as dead without us.....Originally posted by Shotgun:Wow. Nice post ma'am. Can I get to know you? I chao pte only. Just kidding.
Rank aside.
I agree with some of your comments. True, SAF is a place where one can really develop if he/she really puts his/her heart and mind to it.
No one can argue the need for national defense, and the fact is. No matter who you are, lan lan have to serve. Serve 2.5 years an kiss SAF goodbye.... until your next ICT.
But the fact of the matter is, the SAF is full of screwed up regulars (not all) who joined the SAF for the money, free clothing, healthcare, lodging and food. They have absolutely no passion for their chosen careers and do not discharge their duties as commanders in the SAF diligently. Instead, they "assign" all their work and duties to the poor NSF specialists, who end up doing their jobs on their behalf. These scrwedup regulars then "smoke out" until it is time to fall out and cannot be contacted until then.
I dare say this cos I see them all the time, and am on the recieving end of their "assignments." There is nothing much we can do about it, since they are after all our superiors. And seriously speaking, even after bringing up these issues to higher authorities, nobody seemed to care.
Having to work under such "leaders", I don't blame soldiers for not having any passion to serve or exert responsibility in their duties since their superiors have been such negative examples.
As an officer, your perspective on such matters may not be as broad as you think. Ironically, the broader view you have, the narrower the perspective. After a while, the men sees this and would start to heck care also. All they bother about would be their ORD date. IF their bosses can't be bothered to do their work, why should they?
Such irresponsible personnel are the people who have given the SAF such a bad reputation that when guys ORD, they have nothing good to say about their time in the army, other than the proud moments they had and their tough times in training. Beyond that, the answer is the usual, "NS SUCKS." Thanks to a certain amount of blacksheep regulars.
I concure with the statement, "NS SUCKS." Having to work with a55holes that simply dont give a damn, and push all the work to us. I feel I have a right to say that. At the same time, I am proud of the times I spent in training, and the bull5hit that me and my colleagues have to work our way through.
Between my colleagues and I, it is us that keeps our portion of the Army running. Without us, our part of the Army is as good as dead. Cos we are the ones doing ALL the bloody work.
Cheers. Just my alternate perspective on this Topic.
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Now I understand why they shoot deserters...
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Nah they dun shoot them, they simply make them charge towards the front lines.