SAF MBT(Main Battle Tank)
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Originally posted by Shotgun:Haha. Already heard about the MBT. I am quite cock sure about it. Though I have yet to see it. Heard some loose lipped armor officer blabbing it on the MRT. I happened to be in that carriage and heard him talk about his training in that tank.
Anyways, it, MBTs maybe heavy. But sometimes, the ground isn't as soft as its made out to be.
Wondering whether that armor officer knows what he is talking about in the first place...
Yup, the ground may not be soft but what if it rains? Heehee, then the MBT can go for a premature fording exercise... In the kind of mud that SEA terrain is famous for, that would be an extremely interesting exercise!
By the way, does anybody know whether the US Marines use their M-60s in Exercise Cobra Gold? I think that would an extremely useful gauge... -
If it is one the latest generation tanks like the M1,Challenger, Leo2A4, Merk 3 ,Leclerc , K1 etc even at version of the 90s will still be considered very cheap.Originally posted by cutebug:I was told by a tankee officer in Australia that Sg brought 100 secondhand tanks from a sensitive country, for the price of US 1 million each. Is that expensive for a secondhand tank? How much a new tank will cost, why not sg buy new one?
A Leo2A4 cost IIRC at least 3-5 mils.
All latest tanks of today with all the up-to-date vectronics and defence system cost at around 10mils.
The OZ new M1A1 & with very good after sale svc cost them almost 10mils per piece.
I hope the 2nd hand tanks will be upgraded to all the latest vehtronics and defence system and should be armed with a 120mm gun so to better penetrate the latest ERA armour,
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Guess some guys juz like to brag abt all this. Whether this is true or not is up to u guys to decide.Originally posted by Shotgun:Haha. Already heard about the MBT. I am quite cock sure about it. Though I have yet to see it. Heard some loose lipped armor officer blabbing it on the MRT. I happened to be in that carriage and heard him talk about his training in that tank.
Anyways, it, MBTs maybe heavy. But sometimes, the ground isn't as soft as its made out to be.
Whether Spore is getting a new MBT or not will forever be a mystery to the public. Even Tempest is not shown to the public Shotgun u can forget about seeing the "other one".
Anyway Spore is going to setup a new armour unit which run solo. Read that from defending the lion city. If there is a new MBT runnin around it will mostly likely be for this armour unit and u gona be upset for there will be no training on that so call "tank" in Spore. The only training that will be held will be oversea. -
Might not be so, the official introduction of MBTs by closest neighbour for the official record of 'national defence' could herald/warrant local military's to duly reveal the tank in question...Originally posted by +Alucard+:Guess some guys juz like to brag abt all this. Whether this is true or not is up to u guys to decide.
Whether Spore is getting a new MBT or not will forever be a mystery to the public. Even Tempest is not shown to the public Shotgun u can forget about seeing the "other one".
Anyway Spore is going to setup a new armour unit which run solo. Read that from defending the lion city. If there is a new MBT runnin around it will mostly likely be for this armour unit and u gona be upset for there will be no training on that so call "tank" in Spore. The only training that will be held will be oversea. -
Me hope this too, but it is most likely that SAF would not go for such things, maybe the reactive armour as add-on before an REAL operation. SAF will not invest big money on MBT I think. Given that MBT in Singapore context is only like buying insurance for an unlikely war, SAF would rather spend money on acquiring a new SM1 replacement and more money on SFs. The new MBT is certainly a secondhand one which once served one of the world most fearsome army in the world. However, I do sincerely hope that they will eventually be upgraded with Hunter-Killer capability, active defensive suite (liken the one installed on Merk 4 or Swedish CV90-120), reactive armour and a new powerful engine to increase the weight to power ratio so that the new MBT will be able to move just as fast as the Bionix and the new light tank.Originally posted by gary1910:If it is one the latest generation tanks like the M1,Challenger, Leo2A4, Merk 3 ,Leclerc , K1 etc even at version of the 90s will still be considered very cheap.
A Leo2A4 cost IIRC at least 3-5 mils.
All latest tanks of today with all the up-to-date vectronics and defence system cost at around 10mils.
The OZ new M1A1 & with very good after sale svc cost them almost 10mils per piece.
I hope the 2nd hand tanks will be upgraded to all the latest vehtronics and defence system and should be armed with a 120mm gun so to better penetrate the latest ERA armour,
Anyway just my opinion. I can't influence the defense planners and the bean counters...
ha ha -
That unit supposed to be "all-regular" also one right? Except for some of the B veh drivers perhaps. Anyways, yeah, I havent even seen the tempest before, though a close gauge of them would be something like what the swedes did to theirs.Originally posted by +Alucard+:Guess some guys juz like to brag abt all this. Whether this is true or not is up to u guys to decide.
Whether Spore is getting a new MBT or not will forever be a mystery to the public. Even Tempest is not shown to the public Shotgun u can forget about seeing the "other one".
Anyway Spore is going to setup a new armour unit which run solo. Read that from defending the lion city. If there is a new MBT runnin around it will mostly likely be for this armour unit and u gona be upset for there will be no training on that so call "tank" in Spore. The only training that will be held will be oversea.
As for the "new" MBT. I agree about the effect of rain having on the soil. However, some of the points taken into consideration would probably have to do with the wide surface area and low turret profiles. The wider the surface area the tracks come in contact with the ground, the less pressure on it. And honestly speaking, MBTs may have limited use in such area, but they would have better use in other "reinforced" terrain.
I don't wanna start another discussion about MBTs in fibua environments. Just realise that MBTs have changed much since the days of the Coldwar. -
Actually I think it is calculated moves by Mindef, getting the latest stuff mean high price, afterall we have to look at the regional forces around us.Originally posted by Joe Black:Me hope this too, but it is most likely that SAF would not go for such things, maybe the reactive armour as add-on before an REAL operation. SAF will not invest big money on MBT I think. Given that MBT in Singapore context is only like buying insurance for an unlikely war, SAF would rather spend money on acquiring a new SM1 replacement and more money on SFs. The new MBT is certainly a secondhand one which once served one of the world most fearsome army in the world. However, I do sincerely hope that they will eventually be upgraded with Hunter-Killer capability, active defensive suite (liken the one installed on Merk 4 or Swedish CV90-120), reactive armour and a new powerful engine to increase the weight to power ratio so that the new MBT will be able to move just as fast as the Bionix and the new light tank.
Anyway just my opinion. I can't influence the defense planners and the bean counters... ha ha
To me getting a better MBT as compare to our Tempest is I believe to counter the new threat from the north, otherwise we would not have to get a better MBT than Tempest ( To me , I think the Tempest still have a place in SAF, retiring them is a waste).
Even the new MBT come w/o the latest stuff, I think it will still be more potent and survivable than the 105mm Tempest when face with the upgraded T-72s.
Just like the SP ADA in the other thread, we are not facing a large fleet of enemy fighters or any attack helos at all, therefore what we have now is quite sufficient at the moment.
Our northern friend is getting more helos at the moment and hoping to get AHs in the future, I heard that we are also at moment working to have a better SP ADA system to counter the future threat. -
Posting edited due to violation of posting guideline No.5 as stated in this thread
5) It is often tempting to tell everyone how much you know or about what you are. Or drop hints, clues and make innuendos to that effect, when youÂ’re not supposed to. DONÂ’T. You might be giving away more than you think! -
Cutebug, I've directed you to the thread on posting guidelines when you posted questions on this topic yesterday. Did you read the posting guidelines but refuse to acknowledge them, or do you simply didn't bother?
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WOW. Seem like someone knows wat that so call new tank is. By the way, wat u mean by 12 road wheel??? dun really understand.
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U sure u got the number of roadwheels right??
Hehe. According to ur specification, it would be the merkava. hahah... i doubt so. =D -
No, on the contrary, I have reason to believe it is one whose name starts with an 's'....Quite an impressive upgrade of an obsoleted one anyway....kudos to the world experts in their own right!Originally posted by Shotgun:U sure u got the number of roadwheels right??
Hehe. According to ur specification, it would be the merkava. hahah... i doubt so. =D -
hmmm.... israeli Sabras?Originally posted by panzerjager:No, on the contrary, I have reason to believe it is one whose name starts with an 's'....Quite an impressive upgrade of an obsoleted one anyway....kudos to the world experts in their own right!
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Don't mind me for speaking my mind but I find this whole hush hush about leaking our 'oh so secret' CLASSIFIED information to the world a really big joke. Do you really think that our Malaysian & Indonesian friends won't know if we get 100 Merkavas, Sabras or even Madcats(from Mechwarrior)? They probably know much more than any of us idiots here. YES, we have CENTURIONS MBTs with extensive upgrades! YES, we have missile silos dotting our little island paradise(so called)! So what? Our neighbours probably knew about it since the day we got those new 'toys'.Originally posted by Viper52:Cutebug, I've directed you to the thread on posting guidelines when you posted questions on this topic yesterday. Did you read the posting guidelines but refuse to acknowledge them, or do you simply didn't bother?
Everyone is so afraid of the ISD or ISA which ever is the governing body for internal security. Do you think the ISA is really bothered with a bunch of idiots discussing about hearsays and unconfirmed "sightings" that we have such and such 'toys' in the SAF? Here's how everyone hear sounds...."Hey you know ah the other day my Ah Kong tell me he saw a Galactic Starship Destroyer take off from Paya Lebar Air Base leh. He saw photon torpedoes being transported into the base too!".
I mean come on I can come here and spread a load of crap and people will still lap it up. So how will our neighbours know what's true and what's not? Get a life man...and drop this espionage "on need to know basis" act. -
how do u know that they know?Originally posted by bank-yuppie:Don't mind me for speaking my mind but I find this whole hush hush about leaking our 'oh so secret' CLASSIFIED information to the world a really big joke. Do you really think that our Malaysian & Indonesian friends won't know if we get 100 Merkavas, Sabras or even Madcats(from Mechwarrior)? They probably know much more than any of us idiots here. YES, we have CENTURIONS MBTs with extensive upgrades! YES, we have missile silos dotting our little island paradise(so called)! So what? Our neighbours probably knew about it since the day we got those new 'toys'.
Everyone is so afraid of the ISD or ISA which ever is the governing body for internal security. Do you think the ISA is really bothered with a bunch of idiots discussing about hearsays and unconfirmed "sightings" that we have such and such 'toys' in the SAF? Here's how everyone hear sounds...."Hey you know ah the other day my Ah Kong tell me he saw a Galactic Starship Destroyer take off from Paya Lebar Air Base leh. He saw photon torpedoes being transported into the base too!".
I mean come on I can come here and spread a load of crap and people will still lap it up. So how will our neighbours know what's true and what's not? Get a life man...and drop this espionage "on need to know basis" act.
the key word is "maybe"..maybe they know..maybe they dont..
we rather be on the safe side..dun get it?
ask your ah kong lor...since your ah kong saw the Starship..guess he is quite senile still...
weird eh..
is this assuming? assume thing can get u killed..
its a joke to u..not to us..if u cant stick with it..go some other forum n post..dun come here..this is not the place for u..
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I won't be surprised if the new MBT ended up being the Sabra II, because I actually came across a website claiming Singapore has Sabra II (from a website done by an Israeli I think) , albeit it could be a careless post or misinformation. For those of you who are interested, just google it and spend time searching through it. I haven't come across other websites that have similar claims so I simply dismissed it.
It is no secret that Singapore has evaulated M60A3 as early as the early 90 when they were starting to form the 32 Mechanised Division. They also evaluated other tanks like the AM30B2. They suddenly it went all quiet. Tim Huxley in his book did mention about this but nothing was concrete.
Singapore might want to keep the news of the MBT quiet for a while until the time when it felt the need to release it to the media as a "preventive" measure or deterrent. I am sure when and if countries start beating their war drums and using unkind tones towards Singapore, we will see some relevation of new toys and big kahunas.
As for the hear says and "I heard if from a friend, cousin, or some show off SAF armour guys", it is safe to say that I should refrain from relying on this info too much. Worse still, if they happen to be true, aint we are just doing what the proverbs told us not to do "loose lips sink ships"? -
BTW, people, this topic has already been discussed a couple of times in this forum....
see:
A new tank for the SAF ?
Replacement for our light tanks and MBT?
It seems that the posters here are very interested in this topic huh. I guess revealing the Primus is just helping the posters here get bigger appetite for more stunning news...
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Changing the focus:Originally posted by Joe Black:I won't be surprised if the new MBT ended up being the Sabra II, because I actually came across a website claiming Singapore has Sabra II (from a website done by an Israeli I think) , albeit it could be a careless post or misinformation. For those of you who are interested, just google it and spend time searching through it. I haven't come across other websites that have similar claims so I simply dismissed it.
It is no secret that Singapore has evaulated M60A3 as early as the early 90 when they were starting to form the 32 Mechanised Division. They also evaluated other tanks like the AM30B2. They suddenly it went all quiet. Tim Huxley in his book did mention about this but nothing was concrete.
Singapore might want to keep the news of the MBT quiet for a while until the time when it felt the need to release it to the media as a "preventive" measure or deterrent. I am sure when and if countries start beating their war drums and using unkind tones towards Singapore, we will see some relevation of new toys and big kahunas.
As for the hear says and "I heard if from a friend, cousin, or some show off SAF armour guys", it is safe to say that I should refrain from relying on this info too much. Worse still, if they happen to be true, aint we are just doing what the proverbs told us not to do "loose lips sink ships"?
As for defunct US military programs, cancelled due to budgetary cuts or whatsoever, could foreign governments revive the program? This is implicative of cases like the A-12 attack jet, Sergeant York SPAAG, Crusader artillery system, the recent Comanche stealth recce chopper and most notable relevant, the M8 AGS - notable also because the vehicle itself had already been type-classified by US military.
Does it then mean that something had been US type-classified, but not used by them, cannot be used by other countries? Especially if they were willingly to continue funding the manufacturers to carry through from development to full-scale production. -
Originally posted by panzerjager:
I can only guess so, just imagine what it would be like if Russian or worse, the Chinese turn up A-12 or Comanche from their production lines and lagi worse sell to rogue states?
Changing the focus:
As for defunct US military programs, cancelled due to budgetary cuts or whatsoever, could foreign governments revive the program? This is implicative of cases like the A-12 attack jet, Sergeant York SPAAG, Crusader artillery system, the recent Comanche stealth recce chopper and most notable relevant, the [b]M8 AGS - notable also because the vehicle itself had already been type-classified by US military.
Does it then mean that something had been US type-classified, but not used by them, cannot be used by other countries? Especially if they were willingly to continue funding the manufacturers to carry through from development to full-scale production.[/b]
As for M8 AGS, I thought they were about to sell to Taiwan at one stage and how could they be type-classifed then. However, it is also good news that US Airborne troops will be acutally using the 8 M8 AGS as an interim light tank. Finally someone come to their senses to know that the 81st and 101 really need something after loosing the M551. M8 will finally get to see some real world ops. I think this is probably the best time for SAF to "acquire" M8 or part of it, like the chassis or the turret (or even its 120mm gun turret derivative called Thunderbolt).
I'm sure UD would like to use this opportunity to sell some, perhaps to SAF and who knows even Taiwan or Thailand. -
Originally posted by panzerjager:
The answer is yes...but the US goverment must approve it....much like how you must get permission from the US before you can resale your old stuff that were made in the USA
Changing the focus:
As for defunct US military programs, cancelled due to budgetary cuts or whatsoever, could foreign governments revive the program? This is implicative of cases like the A-12 attack jet, Sergeant York SPAAG, Crusader artillery system, the recent Comanche stealth recce chopper and most notable relevant, the [b]M8 AGS - notable also because the vehicle itself had already been type-classified by US military.
Does it then mean that something had been US type-classified, but not used by them, cannot be used by other countries? Especially if they were willingly to continue funding the manufacturers to carry through from development to full-scale production.[/b] -
Commanche has been shelved already. They figured that for the price of a Commanche, they could execute the same mission using multiple UCAVs.
Okay, I have a confirmation of SAF's MBT status. It is not an MBT. We have 40+ (unconfirmed number) of WingZero Gundams based in an underground bunker facility under Takashimaya. The Popular shopping centre has been sitting atop an underground research facility as well as production line for these new WingZeros. I knew we had too many japanese tourists around... -
on one hand, I understand the govt reason to keep the mbt secret for national interest. on the other hand, I hope that such information can be released to the public, the majority of nsmen still thinks that singapore cannot be defended, even those highly educated ones, they have not much interest in military affairs and does not bother much about anything beyond their ict and ippt. worse is these big bunch of idiots go around telling how inferior singapore's armed forces are. nowadays singapore is full of foreigners and they really believe what is being told. they say that our armour is inferior becos we are still using amx-13 these days. and its true that public will think this way as these tanks were around with us for almost 35 years.
I really hope next year's ndp parade at padang we will get to see something new, 35 years ago when the amx-13 was paraded for the 1st time singaporeans were assured of their safety as they know that the island is protected by our own armour, so on our 40th birthday, I hope new generations of singaporeans will have this feeling again. -
nah, I think the Gahmen would rather have her citizens remember that the country is still small and vulnerable, requiring everybody to give their utmost in order to survive.
Parading weaponry that are too powerful might make singaporeans too complacent of their safety from foreign aggressors. -
I think we are developing some 'Zigs too, you know the fighter aircraft in Zero Wing, or better known as "All Your Base Are Belong To Us" Game?
Maybe one day when they set us up the bomb, we can take off every Zig with our pilots know what they are doing for great justice. -
LOL!Originally posted by Shotgun:Commanche has been shelved already. They figured that for the price of a Commanche, they could execute the same mission using multiple UCAVs.
Okay, I have a confirmation of SAF's MBT status. It is not an MBT. We have 40+ (unconfirmed number) of WingZero Gundams based in an underground bunker facility under Takashimaya. The Popular shopping centre has been sitting atop an underground research facility as well as production line for these new WingZeros. I knew we had too many japanese tourists around...