PMC - Private Military Firms
-
tot they dun exist anymore?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Executive Outcomes...This firm is located in Singapore Shopping centre..the one with Planet Paradigm. -
Heard this before?You can engage a hitman from malaysia at the price RM5000. All you need is to provide a photo and the address of the person...they rest he will handle.
-
no need lah... can get from little india at a fraction of that price...
-
are we confusing "before" with "after" here?Originally posted by subudei:By 'trained dictators', I don't mean that they trained them to be dictators
, but that they accepted them as students / trainees and equipped them with valuable skills which they later put to not-so-good use.
they were educated there, and their wealth, education and connections got them in power afterwards...
they did not become dictators, and then get into oxford and sandhurst to fine tune their skills...
BIG difference i think... cos out of the thousands of foreign students that studied in oxford and sandhurst, only a few with the connections can hope to aspire to the position of tin-pot dictators in their lifetime... many do end up as lawyers, doctors, engineers, petty politicians and businessmen/businesswomen as well as proper military officers who rose through the ranks and retired happily ever after
as for Sandhurst, granted, its a military academy, but all such academies have "exchange programmes" ... Westpoint frequently accepts foreign cadets as well... so does Safti MI incidentally...
whether these foreign-trained cadets become dictators or not depends on the climate of their own countries, not on their education.
i'm just not convinced of the "disproportionate" numbers that u pointed out... -
Yep, you're right. My prof was a former Legionnaire. He still have FFL recruiting posters in his office. He was there for abt 5 yrs....was originally from W. Germany and served as a mountain troops in the German forces and decided that he loved mountaineering too much and decided to join la Legion Etranger to enjoying more mountaineering...Needless to say, he was in the FFL's mountain warfare unit....which I have no idea which one. He saw action though...in Chad....Lost four of his men when they were captured and killed, and bodies mutilated. He had to carry them back to base camp...Originally posted by NathanG5:they do now..wat u talking abt its the old legion..
There are detailed security checks by the BSLE (unofficially named "Gestapo") and medical examinations, along with a psycho-technical exam. This process can take anything up three to five weeks, personal items, passports, clothes are taken away. Only returnable if the candidate is unsuccessful. For the period spent at Aubagne there are many duties to be undertaken. The Legion is now very selective, long gone are the days when you would hear "if youÂ’re a criminal you get in". 15 to 30 candidates out of 500 are successful.
http://www.frenchforeignlegion.org/database/data/dta024.html
The selection isn't easy. You have to show your military records stating that you have already completed your required military service in your home country. My prof remembered seeing Asians in there...Japanese actuallly, which fellow legionnaires classify them as either the "samurai" or the "bureaucrat." Have also seen a South Korean legionnaire... -
all i can say..they are a bunch of brave dude..heard story that most of the time the legion always kena wipe out...Originally posted by Tango1:Yep, you're right. My prof was a former Legionnaire. He still have FFL recruiting posters in his office. He was there for abt 5 yrs....was originally from W. Germany and served as a mountain troops in the German forces and decided that he loved mountaineering too much and decided to join la Legion Etranger to enjoying more mountaineering...Needless to say, he was in the FFL's mountain warfare unit....which I have no idea which one. He saw action though...in Chad....Lost four of his men when they were captured and killed, and bodies mutilated. He had to carry them back to base camp...
The selection isn't easy. You have to show your military records stating that you have already completed your required military service in your home country. My prof remembered seeing Asians in there...Japanese actuallly, which fellow legionnaires classify them as either the "samurai" or the "bureaucrat." Have also seen a South Korean legionnaire... -
Oh, for crying out loud...Originally posted by CX:are we confusing "before" with "after" here?
they were educated there, and their wealth, education and connections got them in power afterwards...
they did not become dictators, and then get into oxford and sandhurst to fine tune their skills...
BIG difference i think... cos out of the thousands of foreign students that studied in oxford and sandhurst, only a few with the connections can hope to aspire to the position of tin-pot dictators in their lifetime... many do end up as lawyers, doctors, engineers, petty politicians and businessmen/businesswomen as well as proper military officers who rose through the ranks and retired happily ever after
as for Sandhurst, granted, its a military academy, but all such academies have "exchange programmes" ... Westpoint frequently accepts foreign cadets as well... so does Safti MI incidentally...
whether these foreign-trained cadets become dictators or not depends on the climate of their own countries, not on their education.
i'm just not convinced of the "disproportionate" numbers that u pointed out...
As I had already clearly explained before, my position is NOT that all, or even most, Oxford and / or Sandhurst graduates are third world dictators. I'm just saying that those institutions count an exceptional number of despots and tyrants among the ranks of their alumni when compared with other similar institutions. Do NOT attempt to misrepresent my position.
And as I had already clearly explained before, these institutions did NOT train these dictators to be dictators. As you say, they were trained at these institutions and became dictators afterwards. I'm NOT saying that they sat through their Oxford Law or PPE supervisions with their tutors telling them, "Have you thought about what you're going to do after university? I hear being a dictator's a pretty good job! Here, take an application form!" My sole contention here is that these institutions have an inenviable track record of having had dictators and tyrants among their students. There is also an entirely reasonable supposition here that these people put the skills and knowledge they acquired at Oxford / Sandhurst to deadly use when they returned to their home countries and commenced their misrule. This line of argument was readily apparent in my previous posts, and was indeed reiterated in the very section of my previous post that you quoted in your own post, so it baffles me as to how you could have missed that point.
In addition, you don't seem to realise the fact that 1) many dictatorships are dynastic in nature; and 2) future dictators do not become unsavoury characters overnight; they typically exhibit dictator-like tendencies long before they attain power. And that makes Oxford's and Sandhurst's acceptance of these people as students even more damning: it should have been blindingly obvious to these institutions that these people were well on their way to becoming dictators in the future, and /or their parents were dictators, and their kids were all lined up to succeed them, and yet they let them in anyway, and equipped them with deadly skills and knowledge (as noted above and previously).
Furthermore, there is no such thing as monocausation in life, and the same rule applies to politics. How can you possibly assume that their education had no effect whatsoever in making them more inclined towards dictatorship? How can you so readily conclude that, for example, Benazir Bhutto's presidency of the Oxford Union and her consequent interaction with English aristocracy (who, to this day, still have ideas about how societies should only be ruled by certain people with certain social / genealogical backgrounds) did not strengthen or indeed provoke her development of her own ideas about how she was entitled to rule and exploit Pakistan for her own benefit?
Sure, the climate in their own countries plays a significant part too, but you can't rule out the effect of education. I thought it would have been blindingly obvious to Singaporeans in particular that education has a profound effect on how people behave towards their fellow men and women long after they graduate (cf. the whole Raffles - PAP connection).
As for Sandhurst, you point out that many military academies have "exchange programmes". All of us know this already. But do you know how many of the world's tin pot third world dictators have worn and / or continue to wear the Sandhurst badge? In contrast, nowhere near as many dictators hold West Point or SAFTI MI graduation certificates.
You may be unconvinced of the disproportionate numbers, but this is an irrefutable fact. I've already given you the examples of Bashar al-Assad and Benezir Bhutto. There are plenty more, especially from Africa. Go run a check, the information is all out there. -
hello all.Keeping fit and still hoping,praying fervently to get into Cdo or Guards.Anyway,here's an idea.
Why not have our dear old SAF form a "Singapore Foreign Legion"?We could use them the way the French do,for politically sensitive missions,and as good employment for foreign talent.Or we could create a PMC GLC and source soldiers from the SAF to hire out to client corporations of nations for various purposes.
This way,we protect our national interests and eve enrich the economy. -
Originally posted by subudei:
ok... interesting observation... that's fair...
As I had already clearly explained before, my position is NOT that all, or even most, Oxford and / or Sandhurst graduates are third world dictators. I'm just saying that those institutions count an exceptional number of despots and tyrants among the ranks of their alumni when compared with other similar institutions. Do NOT attempt to misrepresent my position.... My sole contention here is that these institutions have an inenviable track record of having had dictators and tyrants among their students. There is also an entirely reasonable supposition here that these people put the skills and knowledge they acquired at Oxford / Sandhurst to deadly use when they returned to their home countries and commenced their misrule. This line of argument was readily apparent in my previous posts, and was indeed reiterated in the very section of my previous post that you quoted in your own post, so it baffles me as to how you could have missed that point.
i didn't miss it... my bone of contention is that there are world class educational institutions by any standards and as YOU mentioned, the institutions themselves could never have known that their students were going to end up as dictators but nevertheless, u heap the blame on these institutions on something they could not have known and could not have avoided.In addition, you don't seem to realise the fact that 1) many dictatorships are dynastic in nature; and 2) future dictators do not become unsavoury characters overnight; they typically exhibit dictator-like tendencies long before they attain power. And that makes Oxford's and Sandhurst's acceptance of these people as students even more damning: it should have been blindingly obvious to these institutions that these people were well on their way to becoming dictators in the future, and /or their parents were dictators, and their kids were all lined up to succeed them, and yet they let them in anyway, and equipped them with deadly skills and knowledge (as noted above and previously).
how could they have known? look around oxford alumni list... scions of prominent figures makes up a significant portion of it.
it is not at all obvious from the personalities u pointed out that they were going to be succeeded after they graduated from oxford or sandhurst. as mentioned before, they probably went as young undergraduates or cadets. HOW could anyone have known?
it is still not obvious to me from your questionable line of argument that oxford happily and wilfully accepted students of a questionable character and equipped them for nasty ends.Furthermore, there is no such thing as monocausation in life, and the same rule applies to politics. How can you possibly assume that their education had no effect whatsoever in making them more inclined towards dictatorship? How can you so readily conclude that, for example, Benazir Bhutto's presidency of the Oxford Union and her consequent interaction with English aristocracy (who, to this day, still have ideas about how societies should only be ruled by certain people with certain social / genealogical backgrounds) did not strengthen or indeed provoke her development of her own ideas about how she was entitled to rule and exploit Pakistan for her own benefit?
if u believe there there is no such thing as mono-causation, then u can't blame the institutions any more than u can blame the individuals. everything came together to forge the personality.
and look at the context: in the 70s which uni was going to deny the daughter of zufikar ali bhutto, prime minister of pakistan? and i hardly see her as a tin-pot dictator.Sure, the climate in their own countries plays a significant part too, but you can't rule out the effect of education. I thought it would have been blindingly obvious to Singaporeans in particular that education has a profound effect on how people behave towards their fellow men and women long after they graduate (cf. the whole Raffles - PAP connection).
in Sg, it is often recognised that raffles alumnis "have it up there"... and we've been talking a lot about how it breeds elitism... but in the same way, its hardly a case where u're automatically "there" just cos u went to the right schools.As for Sandhurst, you point out that many military academies have "exchange programmes". All of us know this already. But do you know how many of the world's tin pot third world dictators have worn and / or continue to wear the Sandhurst badge? In contrast, nowhere near as many dictators hold West Point or SAFTI MI graduation certificates.
we both agree that access to power and network in important... so if these individuals came from closely knit, prominent families, or from the armed forces, which provides a parallel structure of such access, why should it surprise anyone that they were educated in British institutions? if u were from a former british colony, u would want to study in oxford or sandhurst, unless u happened to be a communist and u would wanna go to russia.
You may be unconvinced of the disproportionate numbers, but this is an irrefutable fact. I've already given you the examples of Bashar al-Assad and Benezir Bhutto. There are plenty more, especially from Africa. Go run a check, the information is all out there.
its not particularly unusual if the entire level of a third world country's elite were all classmates. wealthy, influential pple know each other.
hope u won't think that i'm trying to nit-pick... i agree with certain specific aspects u pointed out... just that i draw a slightly different conclusion from them
-
Okay, I think all the evidence has been gotten out already, we're just, as you say, drawing different conclusions. I'm sure that we could sustain our crossfire for another page or so, but we've strayed quite far from the plot of this thread and our remaining disputes are relatively trivial anyway. I would therefore suggest that we let the matter rest, and let people get back to posting on PMCs if they're so inclined. If you feel a need to continue our discussion, I'll be happy to chat via private messaging in the Mailbox, but I'm quite busy with work these days so apologies in advance if there's a delay in replying.
-
Err...guys,actually right.To be real real honest,these PMCs will actually hire you once you have shown them your acknowledgements of having been military trained.And they ain't picky on where you come from.Primaryily,u are being hired,simply just to get the job done and take ur munny,aft that,thank you very much and FO