New gun a cock-up ?
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I heard from my friends who went to reservist recently our new made-in-Singapore gun is a bit of a cock up.... seriously not as good as our M16. Heard it is designed by a female in DSTA somemore..
Wat do you think?
http://www.myintimatecare.com -
I think its just one isolated case. I prefer my trusty m-16 anytime. Its heavier, but I love the feel of metal over plastics, anytime.
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Remember that when the M-16 first came out in the States, a lot of guys thought it looked and felt like a toy. And what's wrong with a woman designing weapons anyway? What you should care is if the weapon works as advertised under combat conditions, not whether it was designed by a woman, man or homosexual.
By the way, there will always be bugs in new weapons systems. It takes time, money, heavy use, prompt feedback from operators and a willingness by manufacturers to address the issues to solve those bugs. Unless of course there was a major cock-up during the design and/or manufacturing phase. Also, cater in operator mishandling or for situations which were not accounted for by the manufacturer (eg. Navy weapons guys kept screwing up the maintenance of the Sparrow on board the carriers which contributed to the ineffectiveness of the weapon during Vietnam) -
aiyo... first time using something new sure needs some getting used to one mah... this topic has been talked to death before already...
if pple like old stuff so much and refuse to change and adapt, we'll all still be using muzzle-loading muskets... -
SAR-21 is a very good rifle, this is an expert who tested it for Jana defence and the review is as below.
Singapore is rearing SAR-21 bullpup rifle for home and export requirement
BY Charles Q Cutshaw
Singapore has for many years equipped its military forces with M16A1 rifles manufactured under license by Chartered Industries of Singapore, now reorganized and renamed Singapore Technologies Kinetics (STKinetics) in keeping with the new directions undertaken by the company.
The M16A1 was a satisfactory infantry rifle for many years, but licensing prohibitions limited Singapore's ability to market the rifle overseas and also restricted the types of rifles that could be produced. These restraints led to the introduction and production of indigenous designs such as the SAR-80 and SR-88.
The SAR-80 and the SR-88 saw only limited service with Singapore's military, as they were intended primarily for export. In the 1990s the Singapore military was faced with a dilemma. The M16A1 rifles that formed the backbone of Singapore's military would reach the end of their effective service life around the turn of the century. The choice was to either upgrade the M16A1 or produce a new rifle.
Singapore opted for the latter choice, but rather than produce a foreign design under license or use a foreign weapon designer, as was done with weapons such as the SAR-80 and Ultimax 100 light machine gun, STKinetics' management decided to develop a new rifle that would be an indigenous project from start to finish.
This new rifle was intended to fully meet Singapore's 21st century military requirements and at the same time be viable in the highly competitive international small arms export market. The result of STKinetics' efforts is the SAR-21 assault rifle, now replacing Singapore's M16A1 rifles in the military forces.
Unique design Although the SAR-21 bears superficial resemblance to other bullpup assault rifles, such as the Steyr AUG and IMI Tavor, it is a unique design that is similar to its cousins only in that it is of bullpup configuration.
There has been a plethora of bullpup rifle designs in recent years, starting with the Steyr AUG and continuing with weapons such as the British SA-80, the French FAMAS, the Chinese Type 95/97, the Israeli Tavor and the South African CR-21, not to mention the US' questionable Objective Individual Combat Weapon. The latter is actually a bullpup semi-automatic grenade launcher with a rifle as secondary weapon.
Bullpup rifles have the advantage of minimizing a rifle's overall length by moving the receiver to the rear and integrating it and the buttstock into a single unit. This allows the use of a full-length barrel in a rifle with the overall external dimensions of a short-barreled carbine. The bullpup configuration is especially advantageous in close combat situations or when soldiers are mounted in vehicles where the design allows for convenient ingress/egress from vehicles and more effective tactical operations.
The disadvantages of the bullpup design include the fact that the receiver is next to the shooter's face, which causes discomfort in the event of a ruptured cartridge or magazine explosion.
Also, since the trigger is perforce well forward of the firing mechanism, any bullpup design must incorporate a long and sometimes cumbersome linkage between the trigger and the rear-mounted fire-control unit.
Needless to say, the bullpup configuration places more demands on small arms design engineers than conventional rifles and it logically follows that some bullpup designs are better than others. Moreover, the untraditional appearance of bullpup rifles gives many shooters an almost 'knee-jerk' adversity to them. Regardless, military rifle designers have introduced far more bullpup designs in recent years than conventional types, indicating a trend towards bullpup configuration. The sole exceptions to the bullpup rule are the conventionally configured Russian AN-94 and German G36.
Overall, we consider the SAR-21 to be an excellent basic design. The rifle is manufactured using modern materials and state-of-the-art facilities. During our visit to STKinetics in preparation for this article, it was noted that the SAR-21 production machinery was almost fully computer numerically controlled to enhance overall quality. The receiver halves are electronically vibration welded together, resulting in an exceptionally strong and virtually seamless surface.
Although the SAR-21 receiver halves are polymer, they are reinforced with steel at critical stress points, whilst the barrels are cold hammer forged. Magazines are polymer, translucent and indexed so the shooter can readily observe how many rounds are remaining. Controls of the SAR-21 are fully ambidextrous, although no provision is made for left-hand ejection of spent cases.
Patented safety system In testing prior to adoption by Singapore's military, the rifles were repeatedly dropped onto concrete surfaces from 1m heights without effect. The optical sight and laser aimer retained their zeros and the rifle functioned flawlessly. Many shooters are wary of bullpup rifles because the receiver and chamber are placed close to the cheekbone, but the SAR-21 has a patented safety system to prevent injuries in the unlikely event of a burst barrel or chamber explosion.
The first component of the safety system is a molded-in composite plate directly beneath the cheek rest that protects the shooter's face. The second element of the safety system is a vent in the barrel extension to direct any high-pressure gases that might escape in the event of a ruptured primer or cartridge case away from the shooter's face. This system should eliminate safety concerns.
The trigger mechanism is excellent with a relatively light, crisp release - which we estimate to be around 2.3kg -with little creep or backlash. This is accomplished via a stiff sliding plate that links the trigger and fire-control unit, rather than a flexible rod or similar mechanism used in some bullpup designs that result in a heavy and sluggish trigger pull.
The SAR-21 uses what might best be described as a modified Kalashnikov/ Stoner operating system, with a long Kalashnikov-style operating rod in a gas tube over the barrel and a Stoner-style unitary bolt carrier with firing pin, retained cam pin and bolt. This melding of two proven operating systems should be extremely reliable and robust.
The gas port settings are adjustable without tools to compensate for heavy use. Adjustment is accomplished by simply lifting the gas regulator and rotating the adjustment knob to one of its three settings. The bolt itself is of the conventional rotating type, its two massive lugs locking into recesses in the barrel extension. The polymer receiver therefore, receives little stress.
The rifle is select fire, with the selector positioned in the detachable fire-control unit near the shooter's shoulder. The safety is a simple push-push device just forward of the trigger where it can easily be operated by the shooter's trigger finger. The charging handle is fully ambidextrous and easily reached with either hand.
Field stripping the SAR-21 is intuitive and can easily be accomplished without the use of any tools. The upper and lower receivers separate by pressing two retaining pins, which are prevented from dropping away by spring loaded ball and socket mechanisms. Once the upper and lower receivers are separated, the operating rod and bolt group can be withdrawn from the upper receiver. A small lever at the rear of the bolt carrier retains the firing pin, which upon withdrawal releases the bolt cam pin.
Once the cam pin is removed, the bolt can be withdrawn from the carrier.
For routine maintenance, no further disassembly is required. If the user needs to remove the fire-control unit, a third retaining pin just forward of the buttplate can be removed. The fire-control unit can then be withdrawn by pulling it downward. With no practice, the author was able to fully disassemble the SAR-21 in approximately 20sec. Singapore soldiers, who are thoroughly familiar with the rifle, can disassemble and reassemble it even quicker.
Although the data for the rifle states that it is equipped with a 1.5X optical sight with open sight backup, the statistics do not do justice to the outstanding optical sights of the SAR-21. Most notably, the rifle does not require zeroing. This may be heresy to 'old soldiers', but we were given a rifle straight from the production line, handed several magazines of ammunition and offered the opportunity to engage a series of standard silhouettes of varying sizes at 300m.
We loaded the rifle, placed the sight reticle on the first target and dropped the target with the first round. We then proceeded to rapidly engage the entire series of silhouettes of varying sizes at 300m as quickly as we could fire, switch targets and fire again. We achieved over 90% hits scored using extremely rapid semi-automatic fire.
As a former infantry officer who has trained soldiers to zero and effectively use their rifles, the author is impressed with the fact that the SAR-21 dispenses with the lengthy zeroing process. This will save untold training hours as the soldier can take his rifle directly to the range to learn how to use it.
Since Singapore has universal national service of two and a half years for all males from 18 years of age, with up to 40 days mandatory military training annually throughout their adult lives, the benefit of each soldier being issued a rifle that requires no zeroing is obvious.
The reticle of the SAR-21 sight is such that it also leads the shooter's eye naturally to the target, another advantage which will certainly inspire soldier confidence in the rifle because it enables him to quickly acquire and hit targets to the limit of the rifle's effective range.
We were impressed not only with the simplicity of the sighting system, but with the ability to achieve a high percentage of rapid-fire hits at 300m without any zeroing whatsoever. After beginning the day's firing at the 300m line, we moved up to 200 and then to 100m, where we were able to engage targets with even greater speed and accuracy.
The SAR-21 is also equipped with an integral laser-aiming device for use in low-light conditions. The laser operates not only in the visible spectrum, but can be changed to operate in the infrared range, as well. The activating switch for the laser is on the rifle's forearm just beneath the shooter's thumb. Like the optical sight, the laser is pre-zeroed before leaving the factory. The laser- aiming device is powered by a single 'AA' battery, available worldwide.
Throughout the morning's shooting, the functioning of the SAR-21 was flawless. There were no stoppages of any sort, regardless of whether we fired semi- or fully automatic. The rifle is extremely controllable under rapid-fire semi-automatic or when firing in full automatic. This is attributable to its 'straight line' design which keeps recoil forces in direct line with the shooter's shoulder.
The rifle also has a natural balance that places the center of gravity just over the shooter's hand so that the rifle can easily be pointed and even fired one-handed if desired. Felt recoil is extremely light. The SAR-21 is among the best handling and easiest rifles to use that the author has ever experienced.
Several variants of the SAR-21 will be offered for export:
l SAR-21 Light Machine Gun. The SAR-21 LMG differs from the basic rifle in that it fires from the open bolt and is equipped with a heavy barrel and integral folding bipod.
l SAR-21/40mm Grenade Launcher. The basic SAR-21 equipped with a short barreled 40Â¥46mm grenade launcher. The laser-aiming device is mounted on the launcher mounting quadrant to facilitate quick and accurate target acquisition.
l SAR-21 P-Rail. This variant of the SAR-21 is fitted with a MIL-STD-1913 rail array in place of the forearm and integrated optical sight.
l SAR-21 Sharp Shooter. This is intended for designated marksmen who require increased accuracy and the ability to engage point targets more reliably. The 1.5X integrated optical sight is replaced with a 3Â¥ sight in this variant.
It should be noted that given the standard variants of the SAR-21 listed above, others come to mind for use by military organizations with specialized requirements. For example, a heavy barreled rifle could be manufactured using the barrel and bipod of the LMG version and the 3X sight from the Sharp Shooter variant.
Rifles could easily be made with different barrel lengths for specialized users. By purchasing different sub-assemblies, users could easily reconfigure their SAR-21s into any one of several variants. The flexibility of the SAR-21 in this regard is one of its strong points.
Based upon our brief testing, we found the SAR-21 to give every indication of having the potential to be one of the world's best combat rifles. Although STKinetics makes a point of noting that the rifle and its controls are sized for Asian men whose bodies are typically smaller than their western counterparts, we found the rifle to be extremely comfortable to shoot.
The sole feature of the SAR-21 that we found to be objectionable was the positioning of the selector switch between the magazine and buttplate, although STKinetics engineers stated that Singapore's military had no problem with its positioning. Despite this, in order to change from one fire mode to another, the SAR-21 shooter must completely remove one hand from the rifle and grope for the selector button, which is pressed from one side of the buttstock to the other to select full or semi- automatic fire.
The author believe the ability to select between full and semi-automatic fire in combat situations must be virtually instantaneous without the need to reposition either hand, and that STKinetics should move the selector switch forward to a location near the trigger guard for export versions of the SAR-21. Otherwise, the ergonomics of the SAR-21 are superb.
The competition in world small arms markets is presently intense and the SAR-21 joins the ranks of several new weapons competing for essentially limited markets. With the exception of the Heckler & Koch G36 and Izhmash's AN-94, all recently introduced combat rifle designs have been bullpups.
We have not had the opportunity to examine all of the SAR-21's bullpup rivals, but we believe that the SAR-21 will be highly competitive in the small arms market. -
only beef i have with the SAR-21 is with the iron sight which is USELESS and the mag ejector....i think they should put it infront instead of the front....other then that i believe it is good....but since i aint in NS i dunno how it actually feels in operational situations...i've only test fired it
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Here is another review by another person from defencereview.com.
by David Crane
[email protected]
The SAR-21 is a roughly 2 1/2 year old, "state-of-the-art" bullpup 5.56mm assault rifle that is currently going head to head with the Israeli TAR-21(Tavor) bullpup rifle, and all other modern 5.56 assault rifles on the world market. Judging by my experience with this rifle at the range, the SAR-21 is going to give its competitors a...
serious run for their money (more on that later).
The rifleÂ’s combined stock and receiver is comprised of an advanced polymer, and thus is fairly light. Since its bullpup configuration leaves the shooterÂ’s face very close to the chamber, STKinetics has thoughtfully designed a protective ceramic plate into the stock, along with an overpressure bleed hole in the chamber, to protect the shooterÂ’s face in case of catastrophic failure. While I liked the ergonomics of the ambidextrous cocking/charging handle on top of the receiver and under the optical sight, I don't particularly like reciprocating cocking/charging handles on an infantry rifle, particularly one located on top of the receiver, a la the SAR-21 and HK G36 series. A reciprocating cocking/charging handle makes it impossible to have a true 1913 picatinny rail. Anyway, like the HK G36, this handle swivels, so righties and lefties can operate it with equal speed and efficiency.
The SAR-21 also incorporates a gas regulator at the front of the rifle that can be adjusted for different loads, similar to what can be found on the FN FNC, although the design is different. Magazines are made out of a clear polymer, similar to the magazines for the HK G36 and Sig 550 series rifles. So far, the SAR-21 only comes in standard configuration, as far as we know. Hopefully, carbine and subcarbine variants will be developed in the not-too-distant future. As far as DefRev is aware, Class III Supply, out of Hermitage, PA, is still the exclusive importer/U.S. distributor of the SAR-21 bullpup assault rifle being manufactured/marketed by VT Kinetics and ST Kinetics Land Systems out of Singapore. Vincent DeNiro is the owner of Class III Supply.
I got to shoot the SAR-21 rather extensively awhile back during "Range Day" at TREXPO East 2001, right after the gun was first introduced to the American market at the two-day exhibition. The demo gun was provided by Class III Supply, and they were very generous with their ammunition, allowing people to pretty much shoot as many rounds as they wanted. I should say off the bat that I usually donÂ’t like bullpups, but I really liked this one. In fact, this gun turned out to be my second favorite weapon at the shoot (My first favorite was the FN P90). I had an absolute blast running this gun.
The optical sighting system on the SAR-21 worked really well, being very fast to engage, and recoil was very manageable. With proper stance(I, myself, use an SAS stance with both elbows tucked in close to my body), the gun stayed on target during full bursts, and the hit percentage was extremely high. I was able to keep all my rounds within about 6 to 10 inches at 25 yards on full auto, depending on the length of the string. The balance of this weapon is superb, being right above the shooting hand, and the weight is light, considering this is a full sized 5.56 rifle. Reliability was perfect while I was firing it, and I did not see even one malfunction of the SAR-21 the entire time I was there. One of the contributing factors for this was the excellent polymer magazine. I especially appreciated the see-through feature, which allowed me to monitor my ammo supply.
The only things I did not like about this rifle were the location of the selector switch, and the type of switch it is. Located at the back of the stock--not a good place, by the way--it is of the push-button variety, and was awkward to operate. I would much prefer an ambidextrous M16-style sweep selector switch that can be engaged by either the thumb or index finger of the shooting hand. That solution would be far superior with regard to speed and ergonomics under combat conditions. If ST Kinetics/VT Kinetics makes this one change, the SAR-21 will be very hard to beat in the world market. One other suggestion I would make is that they come out with both carbine and subcarbine variants for use by special operators.
The SAR-21 is currently only available to law enforcement organizations and military units. -
oh ya so if the new rifle is made by a man it would be better la. wow ur logic so damn good. by the way u really should go learn the diff b/w a gun and a rifle. wake up smarty.
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the iron sight is used as an emergency backup should there be a problem sighting and aiming with the 1.5 X scope.Originally posted by |-|05|:only beef i have with the SAR-21 is with the iron sight which is USELESS and the mag ejector....i think they should put it infront instead of the front....other then that i believe it is good....but since i aint in NS i dunno how it actually feels in operational situations...i've only test fired it
it beats not being able put your shots on target at all.... -
Have you done any shooting? When some of us did our NS, the M16s that we used ONLY have iron sights, and there are marksmen amongst us.Originally posted by |-|05|:only beef i have with the SAR-21 is with the iron sight which is USELESS
By the same token, the competitors in the Olympic games etc are all using "useless" iron sights. -
Put the what in front instead of the front?? Hahha, what are u talkin about dude?Originally posted by |-|05|:only beef i have with the SAR-21 is with the iron sight which is USELESS and the mag ejector....i think they should put it infront instead of the front....other then that i believe it is good....but since i aint in NS i dunno how it actually feels in operational situations...i've only test fired it
Please, they are trying to design an idiot proof rifle to shoot. Minimise zeroing and stuff. Why is it designed by women? Cos SINGAPORE WILL BE ENLISTING WOMEN SOON!!! WOOO!!! -
not talking about the iron sight itself i'm talking about the 1 on the SAR-21!It is fixed and cannot be adjusted....unlike the M16 ....aka the damn thing cant be zeroed.Originally posted by dragonstar:Have you done any shooting? When some of us did our NS, the M16s that we used ONLY have iron sights, and there are marksmen amongst us.
By the same token, the competitors in the Olympic games etc are all using "useless" iron sights.
PS:This was on the SAR-21 i saw....maybe new versions can zero liao but i'm not sure. -
oops i meant they shld put it infront of the trigger instead of behind the mag(which is under ur armpit!)I mean it was a hassle removing the damn mag.Shld make it infront of trigger or above it so u can eject with 1 hand while holding a new mag with the other....great for emergencies.Originally posted by Shotgun:Put the what in front instead of the front?? Hahha, what are u talkin about dude?
Please, they are trying to design an idiot proof rifle to shoot. Minimise zeroing and stuff. Why is it designed by women? Cos SINGAPORE WILL BE ENLISTING WOMEN SOON!!! WOOO!!! -
Err how great? I agree that when it comes to combat loading, the M-16 is FAST. Eject mag, can let it drop for all u care, mag in hand slap in, release bolt carrier, carry on shooting. But wat da heck, u can't have everything right?
In anycase, the mag isn't really at ur armpit, unless u have a really odd way of handling the rifle. Its somewhere near your fore-arm, elbow. -
M16 better still... lmao..
Sounds like this is going back to the old thread abt sar 21 and m16. -
Originally posted by Shearer_27:I heard from my friends who went to reservist recently our new made-in-Singapore gun is a bit of a cock up.... seriously not as good as our M16. Heard it is designed by a female in DSTA somemore..
Wat do you think?
since you heard only......you should go try it out.....hearing doesn't mean anything at all...esp in SG where ppl tend to be biased and exaggerate..
Well, you heard that is it's designed by a female.....maybe it's that TCS actress(the slimfit gal) who acted as a DSTA officer? if you are keen bet you would rather do some research that to just "hear" right?
okay lah...kidding...
Anyway...the TEAM that designed the SAR21 also include some lao jao pioneer NCOs in SAF as testers and evaluators...there are actually 2 prototypes before the final version....
And there are faults as spoken and I believe some of them.....but I rather get a "feel" of it before making any comments...
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Can anyone tell me how does the "never need to zero" of the SAR21 works.
I know if sounds great if it really works. esp for Singapore. Our army mainly consist of short-term NSF and part-time NSmen, it would not be feasible to keep our weapons zeroed at all times. If we can have a weapon that is already "pre-zeroed" it would be great. Even the laser pointer is suppose to be pre-zeroed. and there would not be any need to zero them in the future. But over time won't there be a "drift" between the land of shot and the sights/laser.
I handled the SAR21 at AA2004. when I look through the sight aimed at the ceiling and activate the laser pointer I found that the laser dot is "off" the center point of the sight! Talk about zeroing... and that is suppose to be an exhibition piece in pristine condition and didn't go through the mud and tumble of the field!
Seriously does this pre-zero works? is there any other assualt rifle that have this feature. -
they zero it using a standard distance. example is those laser sights on handguns, the red dot is supposed to be resting on top of the frontsight at a distance of 15m or so, if u move closer and closer, the dot 'dips', if u move further and further, the dot rises. u can't expect the dot to be in the reticle at any distance, unless u have a compensator device to adjust the laser's elevation to compensate for the change in distance. the laser sight serves as a rough estimate of where your round will land so u do not have to look through the scope/sights, u will hit your target with it but it won't be dat accurate.
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Hi,
Thanks for your inputs. I did think of the distance factor. But the laser pointer is below the sight and "offset" to the left. it is at the center of the lower left quadrant of the sight.
Is that normal? Any SAR21 users care to comment. -
I have not tried out the SAR-21 before. But reading the thread makes me wonder about one point though.Originally posted by spencer99:Hi,
Thanks for your inputs. I did think of the distance factor. But the laser pointer is below the sight and "offset" to the left. it is at the center of the lower left quadrant of the sight.
Is that normal? Any SAR21 users care to comment.
Why didn't the engineers at DSTA design the laser sight directly below the barrel? That way, the sight can be easily aligned to the centre at the factory and any variations would be just above or below the centre of the sight. -
Maybe this will be corrected in SAR21 Mk IIOriginally posted by ChrisYX:I have not tried out the SAR-21 before. But reading the thread makes me wonder about one point though.
Why didn't the engineers at DSTA design the laser sight directly below the barrel? That way, the sight can be easily aligned to the centre at the factory and any variations would be just above or below the centre of the sight. -
wow ... good to hear a debate on the SAR21.
I got a chance to test fire the SAR21 actually. I was a M16 user during the NS days and the SAR21 sure looked stylo milo to us from first impressions. ok .... to me the good and bad are:
good:
- better composite materials compared to M16 ... feels 'expensive'
- factory zeroing ... we did not need to zero at 100m at all. targets were dropped with ease
- better recoil ... something like SAW. but we were popping single shots, so can't comment on auto or burst firing.
- integrated scope ... good and bad lah. depending on how you see it. we were doing the shoot in the afternoon on a good dry day. so can't comment on scope's performance in a different humidity or lighting condition. and we were popping static targets, so can't comment on field firing of moving targets. but the scope was useful to fellas like me ... heh heh ... did not need to use specs to see clearly
- grip handle ... better than the cheapo plastic feeling of the M16
did not use the infra red, so can't comment. and the part about the plastic magazine ... well .... that's pretty subjective. because of bull pup design, i kind of doubt that the plastic mag really helps in the firer's assessment of the number of rounds left. you have to dislodge from your firing position to check it. and if you compare to the M16 method of guaging by weight (becos the mag is easier to slip off), the timing is around the same
did not strip the rifle, so cannot comment on the internal components.
what we did not like :
- trigger. kind of stiff. perhaps still very new.
- gas regulator ... cannot see the use. min and max seems to be same performance.
- safety lever ... poorly positioned. we are more used to the lever at the front of thumb of the M16
- mag ejector ... poorly positioned. prefer the M16 method
- weight ... this is the MAIN complaint from ALL of us. Its damn bloody heavy. and for a new rifle with complsite materials, we really wonder why. pity the fellas doing route marches next time.
- no bayonet attachment ... does this mean no more bayonet drill ? whoppee ...!! -
Talked to a group of my former students just a few months back. Apparently, there is no more bayonet drill anymore. No more "on guard", "left parry", "forward thrust" and so on :-)Originally posted by vleelee:as doing route marches next time.
- no bayonet attachment ... does this mean no more bayonet drill ? whoppee ...!!
And no more injury from bayonet drill. I remember during BMT, one of my platoon mates was parrying a thrust from his mate and got his thumb between their rifles. Had to go to the medical centre for treatment. -
As James Dunnigan said, the bayonet these days is used for everything BUT bayonetting people. It makes a good multi-purpose knife and peeps in the field love multi-purpose stuff.
From what I've read so far, in close range, people tend to use the rifle as a club. Instead of using it to stab people, they swing it around and hope that someone's head gets in contact with the rifle butt, added benefit is that it's possible to take out more than one person down with that technique (yeah it could take out the guy on your side, too). This also explains why a lot of people who did that sliced their hands with the bayonet whilst swinging it.
At close range, clubbing is just more effective than stabbing.Originally posted by dragonstar:Talked to a group of my former students just a few months back. Apparently, there is no more bayonet drill anymore. No more "on guard", "left parry", "forward thrust" and so on :-)
And no more injury from bayonet drill. I remember during BMT, one of my platoon mates was parrying a thrust from his mate and got his thumb between their rifles. Had to go to the medical centre for treatment. -
Hello, i was interested to know about the following...
Its nice to hear that the weapon is pre-zeroed. But will it hold its zero over time and hard knocks? How about if the weapon is subjected to Intensified Auto-Fire? And if it doesn't, is there any mechanism for the Operator to adjust the zeroing?
Just asking for feedback. I think there are way too many people hip-hip-hooraying for a weapon that has not been fielded for too long.