Rules of engagement for SOF/STAR
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Any fundamental differences in ROE between the two CT units? Was thinking SOF is more 'shoot-to-kill/first-look-first-kill' where as STAR is 'apprehend/subdue-if-possible'
So it's as if STAR troopers have a tougher mission requirement posed to them. Maybe they should be given the priority for stand-off non-LOS, non-lethal weapons over SOF, but SOF need the most armour they can get. Should strive for the realisation of power-assisted armoured exoframes for SOF then. -
Depending on situation... they can play different roles
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sgboy2004, the Good Boi
Croco Corner
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Until then, standing orders are "Try to not get shot".Originally posted by panzerjager:Should strive for the realisation of power-assisted armoured exoframes for SOF then.
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The SoF belongs to the military, hence they would handle international situations. Terrorists and such. Eg SQ hijack. Due to the nature of their mission, I believe they are "licenced to kil" in such missions like all military operations.
On the other hand STAR belongs to the police force, hence they would handle domestic situations. Eg. Robbers holding bank hostage. Their RoE is shoot to subdue since our gahment prefers to jail/hang em criminals them rather than kill them on the spot. -
However, it was recently stated officially that STAR is looking out for and trained to tackle suicide bombers. What kind of ppl can these be other than tangos. And in this region, their agenda isOriginally posted by meander:The SoF belongs to the military, hence they would handle international situations. Terrorists and such. Eg SQ hijack. Due to the nature of their mission, I believe they are "licenced to kil" in such missions like all military operations.
On the other hand STAR belongs to the police force, hence they would handle domestic situations. Eg. Robbers holding bank hostage. Their RoE is shoot to subdue since our gahment prefers to jail/hang em criminals them rather than kill them on the spot.
notoriously political in nature, on a global scale, e.g. if we support US/UN outrightly in Iraq or if somehow it became known that we were jointly developing weapons with Israel that were used in the so-called 'war against terrorism'.
In this respect, the STAR could be called upon to assume the same roles and responsibilities as SOF, multiplying the special force elements - taking reference from all the redundant special force organisations within US military itself.
Anyway, 'war against terrorism' should be rephrased 'war against humans who are anti-human' -
and if you twist it around it could also mean "shoot them before they shoot you"Originally posted by Gedanken:Until then, standing orders are "Try to not get shot".
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regarding suicide-bombers, we go for the NRZ...dats needless to say
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What's NRZ?
Non return to Zero?
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Null-Reflex-Zone
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Cheam word ... google don't have.
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I believe what he means is that for suicide bombers the shooters will go straight for head-shot/brain-stem kills - this will ensure that even if the suicide bomber is hair-on-the-trigger, the head-shot/brain-stem kill will elimininate him/her on the spot without sudden spasms - noticed some kills result in tangoes giving a final burst of gunfire until the magazines go dry ? That should be avoided at all costs by getting shots on target (head/neck)Originally posted by Icemoon:Cheam word ... google don't have. -
Think about it this way. SoF = Special Operation Force. Which can include anything overt like hostage rescue to covert stuff like black ops. Eg. Assasinating politician's pet alsatian or poodle. That would also mean that they would have to learn multiple insertion techniques, by land air or sea. And of course, getting to their objectives in one piece without stopping by the local 7-11. They are trained Killers.
The STAR is made up of similar elites but would only handle more overt ops like hostage rescue, or take down of well armed criminals. More covert stuff, I am speculating would be raiding houses of Drug Lords or political opponents. They are not trained to kill on sight, as they are police after all. Also, their means of insertion are probably more limited. So no HALO jumps into water. -
So why the duplication of efforts in HRT ? Other than reasons being against barricaded criminals of pure political tangoes, the methodology of execution to resolve the situations are the same.Originally posted by Shotgun:Think about it this way. SoF = Special Operation Force. Which can include anything overt like hostage rescue to covert stuff like black ops. Eg. Assasinating politician's pet alsatian or poodle. That would also mean that they would have to learn multiple insertion techniques, by land air or sea. And of course, getting to their objectives in one piece without stopping by the local 7-11. They are trained Killers.
The STAR is made up of similar elites but would only handle more overt ops like hostage rescue, or take down of well armed criminals. More covert stuff, I am speculating would be raiding houses of Drug Lords or political opponents. They are not trained to kill on sight, as they are police after all. Also, their means of insertion are probably more limited. So no HALO jumps into water.
Unless there are real capability differences between STAR and SOF, like in room entry, say silent/dynamic entry. STAR may just use plain and simple lockpick kits, sledgehammer or frame charges while SOF may have electronic lockpicks or liquid-based charges etc... -
STAR is for public safety while SOF is for purely military purposes?
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Not totally. I guess both arms have different tactical capabilities. But one thing for sure, STAR won't be involved in military ops. =D
I guess u'd just have think Delta Force vs SWAT. -
You mean Delta vs FBI HRT?
Delta cannot operate on States territory. Not sure if our SOF have this rule. -
Hahaha. Apparently NOT. LOL.
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If u hit dat fella 1cm up from the earhole, u disengage his brain from his body....draw a ring round the head, any bullet hitting the line with an angle lesser than 20 to the horizontal can accomplish the task. a bullet to the brain will not necessary kill instantly...but if u disengage the brain, u practically switch the person off.
another is COM aka centre of mass shot...since the bone right below the sternum (is it spleen ?) is soft, the bullet practically hits the spine with minimal 'resistance' and is more 'direct'. -
Gosh. If it turns out to be a CNS shot, man its gonna be ugly.
But what is the relevance to this topic? -
Think JFK assassinationOriginally posted by chunyong:If u hit dat fella 1cm up from the earhole, u disengage his brain from his body....draw a ring round the head, any bullet hitting the line with an angle lesser than 20 to the horizontal can accomplish the task. a bullet to the brain will not necessary kill instantly...but if u disengage the brain, u practically switch the person off.
another is COM aka centre of mass shot...since the bone right below the sternum (is it spleen ?) is soft, the bullet practically hits the spine with minimal 'resistance' and is more 'direct'. -
well.....we have 'War hammer' aka standard DE tools, doorcharge and shotgun to blast the bolts of the door, we also have O3.....lockpick ? ha....its not dat easy to lockpick a door leh....now locks all using 5 pins...some 6-7, try picking, it will take all day...unless u use the raking method which is more of 'jackpot style' liao....not to forget u need to keep ur pressure on the tension wrench, so to lockpick a door, u need both hands...and u need to position ur head close to hear the 'tack' sound also....very 'vulnerable'...of course, if u use war hammer there is this risk of funneling fire lah...but not as vulnerable.Originally posted by panzerjager:So why the duplication of efforts in HRT ? Other than reasons being against barricaded criminals of pure political tangoes, the methodology of execution to resolve the situations are the same.
Unless there are real capability differences between STAR and SOF, like in room entry, say silent/dynamic entry. STAR may just use plain and simple lockpick kits, sledgehammer or frame charges while SOF may have electronic lockpicks or liquid-based charges etc... -
Er, how about breaching Charge? Doh. Why pick a lock when u can blow the door down? Simple, effective, non-lethal, yet generates enuff noise to concuss anyone inside. Okay, traumatic experience for the hostage, but at least they LIVE to tell the tail on how they'd rather be killed by their captors than to live thru another breaching charge.
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Basically, if the door is locked and its certain that its not a dryhole +with hostages....lets see if there is a window to abseil in with a banger. also depends what kind of door it is....if warhammer is sufficient, its better, the classic warhammer+banger combo has higher rate of success and also allows immediate raiding of the room. if its those metal/aluminium door, O3 will suffice...for HD type then explosive MOE.Originally posted by Shotgun:Er, how about breaching Charge? Doh. Why pick a lock when u can blow the door down? Simple, effective, non-lethal, yet generates enuff noise to concuss anyone inside. Okay, traumatic experience for the hostage, but at least they LIVE to tell the tail on how they'd rather be killed by their captors than to live thru another breaching charge.
also...sniper/observers or abseilers can aid also mah....
"assaulters bang the room at my count of 3---3-2-1 and go!"
at 1 the sniper pick out the most compromising one in the room via the window while the assaulters make entry.
or
"assaulters make entry at my count of 3---3-2-1 and go!"
at 1.5, the abseiler lob a banger and enter via the window.
must grasp the timing one lah... -
Basically, if the door is locked and its certain that its not a dryhole +with hostages....lets see if there is a window to abseil in with a banger. also depends what kind of door it is....if warhammer is sufficient, its better, the classic warhammer+banger combo has higher rate of success and also allows immediate raiding of the room. if its those metal/aluminium door, O3 will suffice...for HD type then explosive MOE.
also...sniper/observers or abseilers can aid also mah....
"assaulters bang the room at my count of 3---3-2-1 and go!"
at 1 the sniper pick out the most compromising one in the room via the window while the assaulters make entry.
or
"assaulters make entry at my count of 3---3-2-1 and go!"
at 1.5, the abseiler lob a banger and enter via the window.
must grasp the timing one lah... -
Wah so chim one ah? I still like the russian way. Smoke them out. Hahaha.
Can roughly understand what u mean. I'm quite a fan of Rainbow 6 Three myself. Do heart beat sensors actually exist? Haha.
"Bang and clear on Zulu..... ZULU!"
*BOOM!*
*rat-ta-tat, ratatata!*
"Clear!"
haha.