Would You Do the Same for Someone You Hardly Know?
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Hi guys,wonder if any of you guys watched BlackHawk Down?Anyway,if you recall,there is a scene where the 2 Delta Snipers requested to go in and provide cover for the Durant's downed BlackHawk as his site is in danger of being over-runned by hundreds of Mogs. Both Delta snipers were killed in the end and had their bodies dragged across the city.And Durant was captured and held for 11 days.
Just a general survey here.Will you do the same,for someone you just occasionally meet on base?
For starters,I will do the exact same thing done by the 2 Snipers.Extreme selflessness in the face of fire.And the fact that in war,its not politics or wat the commanders say.But I'm there,not to proof a political point or watever.I there to fight for those around me,and the belief that with each enemy i kill,there is one less enemy to threaten us with.And I will expend all but one round of my ammo and start hand-to-hand combat.When in danger of being captured,I will take my own life.You can have my body,never my soul nor believes. -
I will do it for duty
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Not meant to be personal attack on you, but I personally feel that no-one, and I mean absolutely no one, can answer that question until put in the same situation, pitted against the same odds, in the same circumstances.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hi guys,wonder if any of you guys watched BlackHawk Down?Anyway,if you recall,there is a scene where the 2 Delta Snipers requested to go in and provide cover for the Durant's downed BlackHawk as his site is in danger of being over-runned by hundreds of Mogs. Both Delta snipers were killed in the end and had their bodies dragged across the city.And Durant was captured and held for 11 days.
Just a general survey here.Will you do the same,for someone you just occasionally meet on base?
For starters,I will do the exact same thing done by the 2 Snipers.Extreme selflessness in the face of fire.And the fact that in war,its not politics or wat the commanders say.But I'm there,not to proof a political point or watever.I there to fight for those around me,and the belief that with each enemy i kill,there is one less enemy to threaten us with.And I will expend all but one round of my ammo and start hand-to-hand combat.When in danger of being captured,I will take my own life.You can have my body,never my soul nor believes.
I have the utmost respect for Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon (yes I know their names by heart - it shows the respect I hold them in) and I can only wish that in the same situation, I would do the same. My answer is, honestly, I don't know. I believe I would, but like I said, I won't know till I'm in their shoes. -
Hey man,Viper52,wat u said is true.But dun u think that we should plan,and think of what to do in the event we are faced with a decision to make like that in the future?I realli do look up to Shughart and Gordon.For duty,as long as there is breath,there is a oppunity of winning it.
Dun worry,I'm open to all,juz feel free to add ur comments and feedbacks
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For starters,I will do the exact same thing done by the 2 Snipers.Extreme selflessness in the face of fire.
They were both married and at least one of them had children then. The letter by Gary Gordon to his wife was quite touching.
So it's not easy to decide, really. Especially when you promised your little kid you'll be home to celebrate Christmas. Why did Papa never come home?
and the belief that with each enemy i kill,there is one less enemy to threaten us with.And I will expend all but one round of my ammo and start hand-to-hand combat.
Do you think of the consequences? If you enrage them, god knows what they'll do.
You study history? You enrage the Japs they massacre the whole village or hospital or rape the whole Nanking.
On hindsight, you think this is a good idea?
When in danger of being captured,I will take my own life.You can have my body,never my soul nor believes.
Siao. If every POWs think like you, none of them will make it home. -
But den again,its like if u noe the way they gonna treat u if u are caught,won't it be betta to end ur own sufferings?I mean,its a last last resort.OF course,betta that the enemy die then us right.But sumtimes when the nitty gets gritty,hell no man.I will put myself outta misery,unless i have other options
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Its good to plan of course, and like I've said, I would like to say that I would do the same as the 2 Delta operators if I were in their shoes, but my point is that I'll never know until the day I actually am in their shoesOriginally posted by SpecOps87:Hey man,Viper52,wat u said is true.But dun u think that we should plan,and think of what to do in the event we are faced with a decision to make like that in the future?I realli do look up to Shughart and Gordon.For duty,as long as there is breath,there is a oppunity of winning it.
Dun worry,I'm open to all,juz feel free to add ur comments and feedbacks -
i agree with viper.Originally posted by Viper52:Not meant to be personal attack on you, but I personally feel that no-one, and I mean absolutely no one, can answer that question until put in the same situation, pitted against the same odds, in the same circumstances.
I have the utmost respect for Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon (yes I know their names by heart - it shows the respect I hold them in) and I can only wish that in the same situation, I would do the same. My answer is, honestly, I don't know. I believe I would, but like I said, I won't know till I'm in their shoes.
but i still very much so respect the 2 men. for me, finding out about somalia was not thru the movie. i remember researching for some info for my cca, Defence Sci Club back in 2000, i chanced upon websites in memory of the brave men who died there. I remember being horrified as i read thru and i remember crying when i read about randy and gary.
what they did, i think no one can answer for sure if u would be able to do the same in the same circumstances. -
But den again,its like if u noe the way they gonna treat u if u are caught,won't it be betta to end ur own sufferings?
IMHO, this is a cowardly action, not much different from those who commit suicide to escape from suffering.
Why not leave your very last breadth to see your country's flag hoisted on the flagpole again? Or contribute to the rebuilding of the country? Or hold your promise to your wife and children, that you will return to them eventually?
Like the chinese adage, as long as the hill is there, there's always a fuel. All is not over.
I mean,its a last last resort.OF course,betta that the enemy die then us right.But sumtimes when the nitty gets gritty,hell no man.I will put myself outta misery,unless i have other options
At least leave a last breadth to spit at the enemy interrogator mah ... and scold their mother father 18 generations.
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i can 100% gurantee right now, there is no chance in hell i will ever consider doing the same for someone who is neither my immediate kin nor kith.
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Icemoon,siahz lahz....hahah,me nv tot of that man.Haha,that is a nice one.Mebbe juz whack as many as possible and let god sort them out!
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Like what viper said, unless you're there at the very moment, whatever you say or do at any other time is talk, and talk is cheap.
The CMOH was first awarded in 1861, since then there have been 3,459 recipients. Do the math, not everyone's born to charge down MG nests and do heroic last stands. The actions of Shughart and Gordon were extraordinary to say the least. The least we could do to honour their memory is not sound off like an 8 yr old and say "That one I also can do". -
The least we could do to honour their memory is not sound off like an 8 yr old and say "That one I also can do".
WELL SAID. I fully agree. -
yeah that's the answer i was gonna give (except i dunno their names like you do!)Originally posted by Viper52:Not meant to be personal attack on you, but I personally feel that no-one, and I mean absolutely no one, can answer that question until put in the same situation, pitted against the same odds, in the same circumstances.
I have the utmost respect for Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon (yes I know their names by heart - it shows the respect I hold them in) and I can only wish that in the same situation, I would do the same. My answer is, honestly, I don't know. I believe I would, but like I said, I won't know till I'm in their shoes.
there's NO TELLING wat one can do in the face of war and death. -
This is war.
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Originally posted by HENG@:
haha. defence sci club not that play LAN one meh???
i agree with viper.
but i still very much so respect the 2 men. for me, finding out about somalia was not thru the movie. i remember researching for some info for my cca, Defence Sci Club back in 2000, i chanced upon websites in memory of the brave men who died there. I remember being horrified as i read thru and i remember crying when i read about randy and gary.
what they did, i think no one can answer for sure if u would be able to do the same in the same circumstances.
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bingo! hahaha u know about us huh?Originally posted by Groovee:haha. defence sci club not that play LAN one meh???
anyways yah we play LAN n study about this kind of thing one loh. -
i won't know until i'm in that situation.
In war, its not about politics, chain of command crap...all that will not matter anymore when the 1st bullet goes through your head. Its about the man standing next to you. -
those who fight along side with mi is my brother..Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hi guys,wonder if any of you guys watched BlackHawk Down?Anyway,if you recall,there is a scene where the 2 Delta Snipers requested to go in and provide cover for the Durant's downed BlackHawk as his site is in danger of being over-runned by hundreds of Mogs. Both Delta snipers were killed in the end and had their bodies dragged across the city.And Durant was captured and held for 11 days.
Just a general survey here.Will you do the same,for someone you just occasionally meet on base?
For starters,I will do the exact same thing done by the 2 Snipers.Extreme selflessness in the face of fire.And the fact that in war,its not politics or wat the commanders say.But I'm there,not to proof a political point or watever.I there to fight for those around me,and the belief that with each enemy i kill,there is one less enemy to threaten us with.And I will expend all but one round of my ammo and start hand-to-hand combat.When in danger of being captured,I will take my own life.You can have my body,never my soul nor believes.
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Just want to add my view on this incident, and I only based on what I have seen from the movie.
In the first thing, the BG should not have let the two snipers in to secure the area for 2nd down Blackhawk not matter how they plead for it , becos he could not guarantee that they will receive support in a very short time and at the same time knew that they will be surrounded by a mob of a hundred with guns, rifles and RPG.
Sending them in is a grave mistake by the BG , he should know that they will most probably will not survive and thus let two good men to die.
As for two men and the BG, they have let emotion rule over rationality.
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Gary1910 made the most sense out of all this.
In that same situation, I wouldn't do it, unless I have bucket loads of ammunition provided for me. And personally, I wouldnt use a sniper rifle or rifle. A nice SAW at least or GPMG. Throw in a couple of Grenade Launchers as well as LAW tubes. When in doubt, flamethrowers add a nice touch to things. -
Was just wondering, according to that situation, the two delta snipers were in a blackhawk, could'nt they hover over the crash site and provide the same(or if not, better) help they could have done on the ground? Who knows, the sight of a blackhawk could be intimidating to that angry mob deterring any looting or sorts.
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or a 3rd black hawk down. hhahaha
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In the first thing, the BG should not have let the two snipers in to secure the area for 2nd down Blackhawk not matter how they plead for it , becos he could not guarantee that they will receive support in a very short time and at the same time knew that they will be surrounded by a mob of a hundred with guns, rifles and RPG.
Sending them in is a grave mistake by the BG , he should know that they will most probably will not survive and thus let two good men to die.
As for two men and the BG, they have let emotion rule over rationality.
It's called brotherhood, my friend ...
As to why the BG let them go in, it's coz a pilot is more valuable than 2 snipers (no disrespect to Randy Shugart and Gary Gordon) in the military sense.
How much money does it cost to train 2 snipers compared to a pilot? A plane already costs more than the snipers' entire training ever will. A pilot knowledge of his plane and the skies is much harder to replace than 2 snipers with their tactical knowledge and expertise.
No I don't like it either, but it's reality. Someone from our special forces told me that once. Sg would send in a team of special forces even it's just to rescue 1 pilot. That's even though we have tons of pilots around and only a handful of special forces members.
And of course it depends on the situation, like in the movie, no one can you to force to go in and create a perimeter. The situation is just too unstable, and it's not known whether the pilot is still alive.
Was just wondering, according to that situation, the two delta snipers were in a blackhawk, could'nt they hover over the crash site and provide the same(or if not, better) help they could have done on the ground? Who knows, the sight of a blackhawk could be intimidating to that angry mob deterring any looting or sorts.
They just shot down a bunch of blackhawks in the area. Wouldn't want to hover around in range and risk losing another. -
Everyone is expendable including pilots, looking at the situation, it is to me grave tactical mistakes becos two soldiers won't last long in that situation.
Rescuing a down pilot by SF is another, with calculated risk and special training to do so.
If the risk is too high, even a Col will be left there.
I remember a movie abt a down Col in Vietnam, he was actually survieying an area to be carpet bomb becos of large concentration of enemy movement.
Becos of the high enemy concentration , many attempts to pick him by helo have failed, even losing pilots. But the plan to carpet bomb still went ahead even he was still in the area, becos he was also expendable.
Since he was in the loop of the plan he managed to evade the enemy and went into safety b4 the bombing started.