[b]SAF seeks meaner machines[/b]
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THE Singapore Armed Forces (SAF) is looking to replace its ageing SM1 light tanks with a revolutionary new armoured fighting vehicle.
Instead of the conventional-looking tank with a gun in a revolving turret, the new vehicle may have two guns or even none at all - armed instead with precision-guided missiles.
Lifting the veil for the first time on SAF's plans to build a new armoured fighting vehicle, Brigadier General Bernard Tan, Chief Armour Officer, said it would take 'three to five years' to develop test versions of a new armoured fighting vehicle once the conceptual ideas are agreed upon.
In an interview with The Straits Times before a parade yesterday marking SAF Armour's 35th anniversary, BG Tan said there's a 'furious debate' on what sort of armoured vehicle it needs.
The intensity of the debate is fuelled by different ideas SAF soldiers have on matters related to its design.
These include how much armour the vehicle should have, whether it should be armed with a gun, missiles or both, how much it should rely on computers and crew size.
The SAF's experience in the design of the vehicle is founded on the upgrades it had done of the AMX-13 light tank and the M-113 armoured personnel carrier, as well as projects that led to the production locally of the Bionix infantry fighting vehicle and a multi-purpose tracked vehicle called Bronco.
In outlining what the SAF's third generation (3G) armoured fighting vehicles could look like, BG Tan said: 'It is going to be packed with greater firepower - not necessarily direct fire weapons - but certainly the ability to call on precision fire, to be entirely wired up, highly mobile.'
Direct fire weapons such as tank guns need to be pointed straight at their target for a hit. Such weapons can destroy targets faster, but cannot hit targets behind obstructions like hills or buildings. They are unlike indirect fire weapons such as mortars and some types of missiles whose warheads are lobbed high over obstructions.
The vehicle used by 3G armoured forces promises to give soldiers a 'comprehensive awareness' of events unfolding on the battlefield as well as enemy intentions.
Also, precision-guided munitions, which now make up only a small proportion of SAF Armour's arsenal, would be the weapon of choice in the future, over the present-day unguided or dumb munitions.
This means the new vehicle may carry less ammunition.
'That's because you've got a greater hit probability, which means your dumb round requirements start to go down,' said BG Tan, who is also Commander of 25th Division.
In turn, the general firepower requirement would likely go down, probably leading to trimmer, lighter, more mobile and protected forces rather than larger, heavier ones.
'Now, this is a big turn in the development of armoured vehicles,' he add
ed.
These armoured units may also include unmanned robots to monitor the battlefield or to destroy enemy units.
The development of the 3G arsenal will eventually make the current SM1 light tank redundant. For now, it remains a mainstay of the SAF armoured units and is still effective because of the various improvements done on it.
Made in France in the late 1940s as the AMX-13, the 18-tonne tank has been upgraded locally with, among other things, a better fire control system and more lethal ammunition.
The 3G arsenal with the new armoured vehicle can quicken the pace of battle by three to four times.
BG Tan said: 'At the end of the day, you cannot wait for the last man to die or surrender before you go in to take a position. At some stage, you've got to engage him in close battle.
'Armour is the arm of decision. When you employ this force at the decisive point, it tilts the battle totally.'
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Wow! The secret its out! So SAF has 5 Divisions! 3,6,9,21&25!
Thought its supposed to be secret, then why the reporter wrote it? -
might be a mis report....afterall a CNN reporter once said he was interviewing the commander of the US 3rd div but the guy was a captain....hahaha
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Originally posted by LAW1:
It is NOT a secret when it is public domain information , LAW1...
[bWow! The secret its out! So SAF has 5 Divisions! 3,6,9,21&25!
Thought its supposed to be secret, then why the reporter wrote it?
[/b]
You got subscribe to Pioneer?
I remember they mentioning abt his 25 Div appointment as well.. -
double post
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I have an idea of what we should have in this light tank. The tank should have 1 main gun.
-Preferably 1 75mm or 90mm.
-Has an external missile rack, sort of that on the warrior ifv or bradley. Fires either lazer guided, or heat seeking missiles.
-CITV system, Allows commander to designate targets for his missiles while gunner engages with main gun. Commander fires his missiles independent of gunner. The CITV Pod also contains the laser range finder as well as laser designator for missile.
-Potential system can also include a variant of the spike with at least a 8km range. Fire n forget, allowing commander to engage multiple targets at once.
-Active defense system.
This dream chariot requires 4 man crew.
Driver.
Gunner
Commander
Electronics Warfare Officer - In charge of threat detection n counter.
Stow compartment for a recce drone. EW can also operate the drone for recce. -
By the time they are done with the development,testing,simulation systems development,I probably in civil defence. Will never have the chance to fire the tank.
Anyway given our manpower's constraint, the dream crew of 4 will never be realised.It will still be 3 men.
That's my 21cents.
Oh.Hi by the way.New recruit to this forum but civilian outside. -
The 3G tank should carry a GAU8 type gatling gun and be attached to a unmanned ammunition trailer - Eg. rear unit of Bronco!
Once ammo in the trailer is expended, the trailer will automatically detached and make it's way back to re-supply area.
Another fully loaded trailer will drive itself to the tank and re-attached. -
u forgot a high angle 25mm MG!!!!Originally posted by Shotgun:I have an idea of what we should have in this light tank. The tank should have 1 main gun.
-Preferably 1 75mm or 90mm.
-Has an external missile rack, sort of that on the warrior ifv or bradley. Fires either lazer guided, or heat seeking missiles.
-CITV system, Allows commander to designate targets for his missiles while gunner engages with main gun. Commander fires his missiles independent of gunner. The CITV Pod also contains the laser range finder as well as laser designator for missile.
-Potential system can also include a variant of the spike with at least a 8km range. Fire n forget, allowing commander to engage multiple targets at once.
-Active defense system.
This dream chariot requires 4 man crew.
Driver.
Gunner
Commander
Electronics Warfare Officer - In charge of threat detection n counter.
Stow compartment for a recce drone. EW can also operate the drone for recce. -
Err, if u are talking about anti air coverage. I was thinking of a "Linebacker" concept vehicle based on the BX chassis.
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Sounds like the US Army's Bradley to me...lol...
Another possibility is following the footsteps of certain Russian tanks which have missile/gun capabilities, maybe a lighter version based on the Bionix chassis? -
I never liked the idea of missile/gun. If we can fire the gun and launch missiles at the same time, we can engage more targets in one blow.
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Hmm, do away with a large main gun altogether and mount a small caliber autocannon and and let the missiles do the heavy hitting?
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build the mammoth tank mounted with a shipbourne CIWS
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Originally posted by LAW1:
there is always a place on the modern battlefield for a direct fire weapon.Give the system an accurate main gun and fire control system and it can knock out anything it can see.Precision-guided munitions are not neccessarily more accurate than direct fire weapons.this talk about a missile system replacing the direct fire weapon is crap,at least for now and the near future.missile systems will always be complementary to direct fire weapons.but i see a greater role for precision guided munitions in the army's indirect fire weapons such as the mortar.
Instead of the conventional-looking tank with a gun in a revolving turret, the new vehicle may have two guns or even none at all - armed instead with precision-guided missiles.
Lifting the veil for the first time on SAF's plans to build a new armoured fighting vehicle, Brigadier General Bernard Tan, Chief Armour Officer, said it would take 'three to five years' to develop test versions of a new armoured fighting vehicle once the conceptual ideas are agreed upon.
In an interview with The Straits Times before a parade yesterday marking SAF Armour's 35th anniversary, BG Tan said there's a 'furious debate' on what sort of armoured vehicle it needs.
The intensity of the debate is fuelled by different ideas SAF soldiers have on matters related to its design.
These include how much armour the vehicle should have, whether it should be armed with a gun, missiles or both, how much it should rely on computers and crew size.
Direct fire weapons such as tank guns need to be pointed straight at their target for a hit. Such weapons can destroy targets faster, but cannot hit targets behind obstructions like hills or buildings. They are unlike indirect fire weapons such as mortars and some types of missiles whose warheads are lobbed high over obstructions.
The vehicle used by 3G armoured forces promises to give soldiers a 'comprehensive awareness' of events unfolding on the battlefield as well as enemy intentions.
Also, [b]precision-guided munitions, which now make up only a small proportion of SAF Armour's arsenal, would be the weapon of choice in the future, over the present-day unguided or dumb munitions.
This means the new vehicle may carry less ammunition.
'That's because you've got a greater hit probability, which means your dumb round requirements start to go down,' said BG Tan, who is also Commander of 25th Division.
In turn, the general firepower requirement would likely go down, probably leading to trimmer, lighter, more mobile and protected forces rather than larger, heavier ones.
[/b] -
my dream tank is something like tt -- GAU-8 with DU and HE shells backed up by a Spike NT-D launcher to handle the PT-91s. perhaps a quadpack of Iglas too. woohoo!Originally posted by Fairyland:The 3G tank should carry a GAU8 type gatling gun and be attached to a unmanned ammunition trailer - Eg. rear unit of Bronco!
Once ammo in the trailer is expended, the trailer will automatically detached and make it's way back to re-supply area.
Another fully loaded trailer will drive itself to the tank and re-attached. -
A friend and me came up with this "Dream combat vehicle" in class.
Something like Mechwarrior but around man size.
Exo Suits.... *old cartoon called Exo Squad*
something lidat... -
I still wish to see mindef stick to the good old proven, possible something mounted with 90mm, 105mm or 120mm cannon .
Something with direct fire, can more rounds carry and cheaper is alway something more useful.
Yep you may create something with 2 or 4 missiles. But end of the day, they cost too much. There are a lot of situation which justify the cost of a few good old cannon rounds to take out bunkers or some other defensive area, which will be too crazy to use the expensive missile.
Remember a tank is a good tank buster, but tanks also useful against defensive positions and a wide range of situation which 20mm to 30mm is too light round to do damage, and missile is too expensive and too few. A few good old cannon is away practical and cheap. -
all this remind me of the old Command & Conquer game...Originally posted by storywolf:I still wish to see mindef stick to the good old proven, possible something mounted with 90mm, 105mm or 120mm cannon .
Something with direct fire, can more rounds carry and cheaper is alway something more useful.
Yep you may create something with 2 or 4 missiles. But end of the day, they cost too much. There are a lot of situation which justify the cost of a few good old cannon rounds to take out bunkers or some other defensive area, which will be too crazy to use the expensive missile.
Remember a tank is a good tank buster, but tanks also useful against defensive positions and a wide range of situation which 20mm to 30mm is too light round to do damage, and missile is too expensive and too few. A few good old cannon is away practical and cheap.
the GDI have the gigantic Mammoth Tank..
