Does SAF issue sidearm to the soldiers during actual combat?
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Hi all,just wondering if the SAF issue the front-line combat troops with a side-arm besides the standard issue M16S1/AR-15/SAR-21/M203/Ultimax 100 or GPMG?And also,what side-arm is it?
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i think yes, at least for the officers. p226?
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this was asked when i was doing my NS...
why don't medics be issued sidearms instead of a bloody rifle...
no one answered... -
Officers get the sig sauer, the VIP ones I guess, so they can shoot those who defy orders on the spot.
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let me attempt this.Originally posted by the Bear:this was asked when i was doing my NS...
why don't medics be issued sidearms instead of a bloody rifle...
no one answered...
medics are supposed to take part in combat when there is a need to. so they must be just as effective as everyone else. hence they carry the same weapon and contact rate.
hope this is satisfactory. -
Actually,to be real honest,SAF should consider issueing all Medics with carbines like CAR-15 or M4 instead of the full-length M-16 or the SAR-21 which is heavier.Due to the fact that the medic's main job is to be giving medical attention those shot.And they already carry a hell lot of weight.Since recently,someone posted that signallers gonna use the Belgium FN P90,.perhaps medics can use the same too?AS it realli saves on weight and being Asian,imagine carrying a fat assed trooper on a stretcher?Sure die lahz...
Anyway,P226 is an old gun.SAF should consider the Glock 17 or 19.Perhaps even the Fn Five-SeveN which is of same calibre as the P90.
Lastly,I think best if all troopers get to handle a sidearm,coz if ur main weapon malfunction in firefight,u at least got sumthing to work with.Instead of standing there or running for cover holding a piece of plastic and metal which can only be used as a club. -
Here we go again. With the "I think" syndrome.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Anyway,P226 is an old gun.SAF should consider the Glock 17 or 19.Perhaps even the Fn Five-SeveN which is of same calibre as the P90.
Lastly,I think best if all troopers get to handle a sidearm,coz if ur main weapon malfunction in firefight,u at least got sumthing to work with.Instead of standing there or running for cover holding a piece of plastic and metal which can only be used as a club.
Correction. The Glock 17 is actually younger, as it was introduced in 1983, while the P226 was introduced in 1981. Yes, the P226 itself is a old gun, but did you know of the P226 Rail?
Did you know that we carry a lot of funny pistols in a certain unit?
It's only job is to shoot. And shoot they do.
of course it's real fun to have a extra weapon for everyone, but consider, the extra training time, ammo needs, maintenance, so on, so on. And a pistol is much much easier to smuggle out that a rifle.
Ask a Coy of recruits, do you want a pistol? You have to clean it, draw the arm out, and qualify with it. Oh, and a new gun means more opportunities to be punished. They'd say, NO! -
IMO if the medic in question is in a frontline vocation like cdo/guards/armor/inf he should carry the same weapon as everyone else.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Actually,to be real honest,SAF should consider issueing all Medics with carbines like CAR-15 or M4 instead of the full-length M-16 or the SAR-21 which is heavier.Due to the fact that the medic's main job is to be giving medical attention those shot.And they already carry a hell lot of weight.Since recently,someone posted that signallers gonna use the Belgium FN P90,.perhaps medics can use the same too?AS it realli saves on weight and being Asian,imagine carrying a fat assed trooper on a stretcher?Sure die lahz...
According to the Geneva convention we cannot shoot medics. But if i see a combat medic I have a clear shot on, I'll shoot him anyway. Coz every person he saves is gonna kill one or more of my own in the future. This way, when we shoot em dead, they stay dead.
Yes combat medics have an already heavy load, but it's necessary to carry the standard rifle to defend themselves. If they carry a side arm, what if someone shoots the medic from a distance? How is the medic to engage back with a sidearm like a pistol?
The enemy can shoot anyone from a certain distance depending on their weapons system. If a medic cannot defend himself properly then gets killed because he carries only a damn sidearm, why bring him along in the first place? Is the platoon supposed to protect the medic? No, the job of the platoon is to complete their mission. The medic is there to care for the wounded in the platoon/coy/bn.
It's gonna sound bad, but no one in the front of the battle gives a damn about the medic (maybe the PS, CSM, RSM only) until they're a casualty. Do you think they have the time to care about what's behind them? Medics are left to fend for themselves and the only way they can do that is to carry whatever weapon everyone else is carrying.Anyway,P226 is an old gun.SAF should consider the Glock 17 or 19.Perhaps even the Fn Five-SeveN which is of same calibre as the P90.
Also IMO, I'll rather carry more ammo for my rifle, then to carry a separate small side arm and it's separate ammo. I don't really see the point of carrying 2 different weapons and it's separate ammo. How are you going to keep them? Maintence in the field would also be a problem.
Lastly,I think best if all troopers get to handle a sidearm,coz if ur main weapon malfunction in firefight,u at least got sumthing to work with.Instead of standing there or running for cover holding a piece of plastic and metal which can only be used as a club. -
well he's been asking questions like that for a long time. garang but hasn't seen the real thing yet... wait till he go BMT, clean rifle, curse n swear, then he will understand.Originally posted by Johnston:Here we go again. With the "I think" syndrome.
Correction. The Glock 17 is actually younger, as it was introduced in 1983, while the P226 was introduced in 1981. Yes, the P226 itself is a old gun, but did you know of the P226 Rail?
Did you know that we carry a lot of funny pistols in a certain unit?
It's only job is to shoot. And shoot they do.
of course it's real fun to have a extra weapon for everyone, but consider, the extra training time, ammo needs, maintenance, so on, so on. And a pistol is much much easier to smuggle out that a rifle.
Ask a Coy of recruits, do you want a pistol? You have to clean it, draw the arm out, and qualify with it. Oh, and a new gun means more opportunities to be punished. They'd say, NO! -
yah lor, less things better, give me sidearms i also don't want, some more have to carry ammunition for sidearms and a different cleaning kit for it, mad person then want side arms, but i won't mind a knife, that stupid bayonet so blunt and not useful, i want a knife, at least can cut ropes and stuff. else if really got war, want to make trap also don't have equipment for it. knife at least got lots of use.
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one clip of ammo which is to be used only in self-defence...
that's what we're instructed...
geneva convention says that medics are non-combatants or something.. we're not supposed to be shot at because of that status... shooting away with the M16 with just one clip of ammo, we're just committing suicide...Originally posted by wuming78:let me attempt this.
medics are supposed to take part in combat when there is a need to. so they must be just as effective as everyone else. hence they carry the same weapon and contact rate.
hope this is satisfactory. -
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Originally posted by Praetorian111:Sig Saeur P226 is a great pistol and I personally handle it be4.... No much of a problem even without zeroing....
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eh, how come i've never heard of this before...Originally posted by wuming78:i think yes, at least for the officers. p226?
nan dao FOs no need? -
yeah agree. a good knife is what's important. i brought my own knife in even for BMT, and i had on several occasions lent other combat knives i own to friends for overseas ex, CST cse and other really rough courses.Originally posted by Ole:yah lor, less things better, give me sidearms i also don't want, some more have to carry ammunition for sidearms and a different cleaning kit for it, mad person then want side arms, but i won't mind a knife, that stupid bayonet so blunt and not useful, i want a knife, at least can cut ropes and stuff. else if really got war, want to make trap also don't have equipment for it. knife at least got lots of use. -
Actually, it might be a good idea to follow the U.S. doctrine and issue each GPMG gunner with a sidearm. I think its for self-defence when they run out of ammo, considering the amount of rds they can fire up.
I think scout teams and FO teams should also be issued sidearms...reason being that they are such small group behind enemy lines or at the edge of it...
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don't i think la. do u know how hard it is to train men to shoot well with pistols?Originally posted by Tango1:Actually, it might be a good idea to follow the U.S. doctrine and issue each GPMG gunner with a sidearm. I think its for self-defence when they run out of ammo, considering the amount of rds they can fire up.
I think scout teams and FO teams should also be issued sidearms...reason being that they are such small group behind enemy lines or at the edge of it...
it would be a training and logistical nightmare. most pistol training would be only given to those who have a need for using pistols. otherwise, with the training most recruits have received in BMT, it makes more sense to issue them with something they are already comfortable and familiar with, the M-16. anyways, most NSFs serve 2 years 6 months max, too short to justify giving them pistol training which, i say again, takes massive time and efforts on the part of the instructors. -
Since recently,someone posted that signallers gonna use the Belgium FN P90,.perhaps medics can use the same too?AS it realli saves on weight and being Asian,imagine carrying a fat assed trooper on a stretcher?Sure die lahz...
Ah..since when signallers gonna change rifle.. my unit all juz convert to SAR21 incl. signallers leh. so they learning another weapon soon? -
SpecOps87
¡°Hi all, just wondering if the SAF issue the front-line combat troops with a side-arm besides the standard issue M16S1/AR-15/SAR-21/M203/Ultimax 100 or GPMG? And also, what side-arm is it?¡±
For officer, the rank of Company Commander and above, if wartime, they are suppose to be issue P226 pistol. It is still one of the finest pistols in the world. For peace time, P226 is use only during special parades.
Military Police of course use side-arms, would expect them to be P226.
SOF let their personals have a wide choice of different pistols.
The Bear
¡°why don't medics be issued sidearms instead of a bloody rifle... ¡°
One old sgt in US army said to some soldiers on pistols - ¡°The day you need your pistol is the day you wish you have a rifle instead.¡±
It is very difficult to shoot a pistol. It is totally unlike in arcade, in untrained hand, you will not hit anything even if it is just 15m away. Think of a P226 weight unloaded is already 742g (9mm), once fully loading, bring up to aim and shoot, that became a problem. Also pistol needs zeroing, that means personal pistol to user, and 100 rounds per year to ensure it is of use to the owner.
Try to imagine, with almost 1kg tried to one of your leg, and extra 9mm, I am sure you your movement is restricted and slowdown. Unless you are going into a narrow tunnel, think it is still better to have a good rifle that is well maintenance.
Tango1
As for the claims that US army issue their machine gunner with pistol, that is not true. If MG gunner is carry a machine gun with ammo, the weight is already too much, adding a pistol will only kill him 1st. They are better off, carry more spare machine gun ammo. -
So officers are trained to use the P226 also, rite?Originally posted by wuming78:i think yes, at least for the officers. p226? -
i think so ... but nsf officers may not have the chance to.Originally posted by BMEngineer:So officers are trained to use the P226 also, rite? -
BMEngineer ,
NSF, officer will not have the chance. Unless you are in special roles.
Even the regular, think only a few years, they let you shoot the most 1 or 2 mag. The problem is, that is not call training. As there too little rounds to consider training or even zeroing, also those are not personal arms, so those P226 are not zero to indiviual. -
I think just equipping a SAR is sufficient.
Imagine if you were to fight 1 on 1 with someone, and that person had a sidearm, would you choose a sidearm or a bloody SAR?
30 bullets to 9 bullets...
Chances are the person will the SAR will win hands down. Even more, if the range is more than 250m! lolz... -
1 on 1 close distance, isn't a smaller gun better? You can shoot faster with smaller gun isn't it? A razor sharp knife will be the bestOriginally posted by :I think just equipping a SAR is sufficient.
Imagine if you were to fight 1 on 1 with someone, and that person had a sidearm, would you choose a sidearm or a bloody SAR?
30 bullets to 9 bullets...
Chances are the person will the SAR will win hands down. Even more, if the range is more than 250m! lolz... -
1 on 1, close range, SMGs r better. pistols are notorious for being difficult to fire accurately, even close range.Originally posted by BMEngineer:1 on 1 close distance, isn't a smaller gun better? You can shoot faster with smaller gun isn't it? A razor sharp knife will be the best