Does SAF issue sidearm to the soldiers during actual combat?
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oh..u figure it out? congratOriginally posted by Moonstriker:Personal flaming issit nathan?
U finish NS doesn't mean u know alot abt military stuff. You are making an unfair statement.
if u read carefully...its abt toking big...
does reading Black Hawk Down means u can become a delta operator?
or 13 cent Killers u become a top sniper?
reading is good...gain knowledge..
but military is abt experience..u read abt how to strip a M-16...but are u able to do it in real time?
knowing is one thing...experience is another..
life is unfair...go figure it out in Army..
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Originally posted by SpecOps87:
this reminds me of a joke... we were on course in sispec... there was about 8 pple in that office that day... mostly dirty weapons and misfire (which included me)... all waiting for cwo to sign the "holy book" .
And btw,the M-16 will fire off with if you drop it when it is loaded with a live round in the chamber.Even when on safe.Not all weapons are built to be safe.And to be frank,the fact remains that a safe holster is not a speed holster and a speed holster is not a safe holster.Although companies try to constantly come up with newer and better holsters to suit the different purposes.
we explained one by one... mine went off as i was clearing IA... quite stupid actually
i thought the round was clear but it was still inside and i eased-spring-squeezed-trigger... kena fark and confined... really felt that i deserved it...
but ONE guy claimed that his weapon (m16) went off by itself! that the weapon was loaded and cocked, the bolt was closed, the safety was on, and the weapon WENT OFF BY ITSELF when he proned too hard.
most of us signed for one confinement that day... that guy signed THREE cos he was accused of lying and telling a cock-and-bull story.
an M16 that's working properly, with the bolt closed will not likely go off by itself one... the trigger mechanism is quite secure... it is unlikely that it will trip even if u drop it. a SAW would cos its an open bolt system... the bolt is always in the rear position, like an MG. but an M16? not likely...
the ONLY time where it might happen is if u have a HOT weapon... like u just fired off 2-3 mags, and the champer is hot... THEN u have a freak chance in hell of that happening.
so if u haven't served yet, but if u ever get to use an M16 next time, DON'T use that excuse if u misfire... just say u were blind and stupid and blur... its more believable than saying the M16 tripped all by itself. -
Actually my friend had the same experience of the M16 misfiring when he proned very hard. That was during the section live firing during SAFINCOs. Mebe it is really just the rifle's flaw?
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U decork the pistol and shoot issit??Originally posted by storywolf:zenden9
"Have u fire P226(SAF pistol) before? The first time I shoot at 20m,miss a half human size object completely.Pistol still need pratice,their recoil is very strong(more than M-16)!"
Yep fire the P226 before. Yep the first few round went totally wide as the recoil is more than I expected. Not sure about you, but I find the P226 slightly too big for my hand to be shooting it comfortably. I perfer the P229, more compact and comfortable in hand to shoot properly. I think p229 or p228 there is a version specially made for Asian. -
ya it protects your vital organs but the shell will end up hitting u....Originally posted by chunyong:Pistols are more accurate generally and deployment is much faster. there is so much to learn in pistol shooting....its not just point and shoot. there is the horse riding stance and lots more. there is also a newly developed stance that u position the pistol very close to your eyes compared to normal posture, u use it when in super confined places. works good and the posture 'protects' your vital organs too. -
Originally posted by HENG@:see prae, both storywolf n zenden9 are saying what i siad, that it is not easy to shoot a pistol even at close range. hahaha kena shoot.... by so many.... ... next time then we discuss abt it over lunch....
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Actually, to be blunt,Originally posted by Praetorian111: hahaha kena shoot.... by so many.... ... next time then we discuss abt it over lunch....
Will not need to rely so much whether will be issued with sidearms for combat or not. The aftermath of battles will always leave the spoils of the enemy for own army for the taking. This should not be policed so that every one for himself will collect whatever weapon from fallen enemy or even comrade and that will already add to the combat load of the collector.
Stories out of WW2 were such that, in one or some or many cases, even tank units came out of battles with more vehicles than when they went into before - suddenly captured or revitalised from fallen or abandoned by other crews
You should always prevent your weapons from falling into enemies' hands but strive to make theirs fall into yours -
SAF should allow use/issue of knuckle-dusters over normal gloves during combatOriginally posted by Praetorian111: hahaha kena shoot.... by so many.... ... next time then we discuss abt it over lunch.... -
yo no prob. after I ORD, can meet u for lunch if u free since u study so near my home.Originally posted by Praetorian111: hahaha kena shoot.... by so many.... ... next time then we discuss abt it over lunch.... -
erm...the gun not held the normal way loh and i have tried it multiple times, not once hit me before. if such obvious thing also not ruled out the method won't be taught liao lah...wah liew....Originally posted by Praetorian111:ya it protects your vital organs but the shell will end up hitting u.... -
eh, knuckle dusters is a prohibited item in S'pore leh....dun play play.Originally posted by panzerjager:SAF should allow use/issue of knuckle-dusters over normal gloves during combat -
Praetorian111,
"U decork the pistol and shoot issit?? I think p229 or p228 there is a version specially made for Asian."
I don't de-cork the pistol and shoot it, sorry they don't allow it in shooting competitions. Last time, me blur blur sotong, got drag into a special full 2 weeks course for revolver shooting for competition. They train you in double action shooting. Everyday each trainee must shoot about 200 rounds each for practise. After that I end up spending most of my weekend hanging around shooting ranges. That give me the start and intro me into the world of small arms, which I went on to rifles and pistols in the army and after.
P229 is more for compact for police work, easiler to carry and conseal. Possible more prefer by ladies also. However, just nice for asian. P228 is only available to law-enforcement and military, not easy to get. -
double-action is more for competition shooting. some people prefer the squeeze through and wouldn't use double-action while others vice versa. we do not use P22x for law enforcement duty locally. P22x once came into the picture sometime back but the idea was replaced by a 'better' pistol...which we have no say, as usual.
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Use in wartime against enemy when enemy just got caught and hands-up - initial interrogation periodOriginally posted by chunyong:eh, knuckle dusters is a prohibited item in S'pore leh....dun play play. -
Chunyong
"double-action is more for competition shooting. some people prefer the squeeze through and wouldn't use double-action while others vice versa. we do not use P22x for law enforcement duty locally. P22x once came into the picture sometime back but the idea was replaced by a 'better' pistol...which we have no say, as usual.¡±
Double action is not for competition only. Some competitions have time factor in, so very fast shooting, not the classic type you expect.
In fact all shooting classes teaches double action for pistols, revolvers and rifles including SAF, Police and shooting clubs. Trainees are usually make to practise double action, which they pull and hold than follow through, this is to get them into the habit and feel. This is to train them so that, in actual shooting, well trained shooters are actually doing double-action while they aiming, all this they are doing unconsciously, and so fast that the by-stander see it as a single squeeze which you call "squeeze through".
In close quarter combat situation, a swat team member with a pistol will not just squeeze it off, and hope for the best that he hit the target instead of hostage. He is trained till he can do the double action super fast and hit target precisely. -
Eh CX,actually to be frank right.I dun think your fren was tokin cock.Coz rite,I in NCC.Den during our 100m Classification shoot,I assisting one bugger.He loaded,safe liaoz.Den instead of resting the weapon on sandbag,due to his small size,he knocked the butt on the ground pretty hard,and a round went off.So,yes,I have seen it before,and yes,it has been proven that the M16S1 does fire even though it is placed in the "SAFE" mode.
I know that from personal experience cuz I was farked by the range conducting officer and also the safety officer for not ensuring that my the firer's weapon is at "SAFE".The firer,also blur,he showed his weapon which was still at "SAFE" to the both of them.They both down there paiseh,change the weapon.So,I ain't making it up man. -
Eh Heng,thanks for the pic.The Frequent Flyer looks more like a throwing knife.Anyway,once again thanks.
And fellas,another reason for me posting this thread is that someone posted in another earlier thread that BMT now no longer teaches Bayonet Fighting.So,look at it this way,a pistol is useful when it your main weapon is empty or jammed.So it helps you stay alive.And since SAF don't issue any big,menacing combat knives,shouldn't they issue a pistol too?So that we at least have a descent chance to defend ourselves rather then sitting there with our thumbs in our drool covered mouths?
And someone posted bout how t join SRA,well you can go check out their website.Not sure if its still operational.But quite costly to join. -
no problem.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Eh Heng,thanks for the pic.The Frequent Flyer looks more like a throwing knife.Anyway,once again thanks.
And fellas,another reason for me posting this thread is that someone posted in another earlier thread that BMT now no longer teaches Bayonet Fighting.So,look at it this way,a pistol is useful when it your main weapon is empty or jammed.So it helps you stay alive.And since SAF don't issue any big,menacing combat knives,shouldn't they issue a pistol too?So that we at least have a descent chance to defend ourselves rather then sitting there with our thumbs in our drool covered mouths?
And someone posted bout how t join SRA,well you can go check out their website.Not sure if its still operational.But quite costly to join. -
ha, our STAR can do pullthrough effectively, trust them. double-action got its safety factor too. for those non-static shooting, its amazing to see how fast Gurkhas move but their accuracy is slightly behind. how many people can jump right into a dry canal unhurt and continue to hot-pursue ? not many eh...Originally posted by storywolf:Chunyong
"double-action is more for competition shooting. some people prefer the squeeze through and wouldn't use double-action while others vice versa. we do not use P22x for law enforcement duty locally. P22x once came into the picture sometime back but the idea was replaced by a 'better' pistol...which we have no say, as usual.¡±
Double action is not for competition only. Some competitions have time factor in, so very fast shooting, not the classic type you expect.
In fact all shooting classes teaches double action for pistols, revolvers and rifles including SAF, Police and shooting clubs. Trainees are usually make to practise double action, which they pull and hold than follow through, this is to get them into the habit and feel. This is to train them so that, in actual shooting, well trained shooters are actually doing double-action while they aiming, all this they are doing unconsciously, and so fast that the by-stander see it as a single squeeze which you call "squeeze through".
In close quarter combat situation, a swat team member with a pistol will not just squeeze it off, and hope for the best that he hit the target instead of hostage. He is trained till he can do the double action super fast and hit target precisely. -
Ok..first please excuse my ignorance...but is a pistol that hard to shoot? If a person who is new to a particular firearm..and uses it for the first time..all you have to do is..align the front sight and rear sight..align aiming eye i don't see why the bullet won't hit where you aim. (Assuming the gun is properly maintained.) I have only experienced shooting a .22 during NPCC (crap huh?) the only time i missed is when my hands are trembling..
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1) there is this thing called snatching where u 'compensate' the recoil by either jerking down (most of the time) or jerking up just before the pin engages, dats how ur shot misses.Originally posted by Jazzswing:Ok..first please excuse my ignorance...but is a pistol that hard to shoot? If a person who is new to a particular firearm..and uses it for the first time..all you have to do is..align the front sight and rear sight..align aiming eye i don't see why the bullet won't hit where you aim. (Assuming the gun is properly maintained.) I have only experienced shooting a .22 during NPCC (crap huh?) the only time i missed is when my hands are trembling..
2) u might not place ur eye really behind the rear sight...so ur shot 'leans' left or right accordingly
3) rare : when u squeeze the trigger, the gun snatches left/right just b4 the pin engages
4) shaky hands
5) the 3 'dots' not horizontally aligned...for those guns with the tritium dots to aid in dim conditions.
6) the sights are 'screwed up, the frontsight gets dented but u still think its perfect
7) for moving target, where u point is not where the shot will land as the target itself is moving and u must 'compensate' by aiming 'ahead' or foolishly 'track' the spot. -
yes it is that hard to shoot.Originally posted by Jazzswing:Ok..first please excuse my ignorance...but is a pistol that hard to shoot? If a person who is new to a particular firearm..and uses it for the first time..all you have to do is..align the front sight and rear sight..align aiming eye i don't see why the bullet won't hit where you aim. (Assuming the gun is properly maintained.) I have only experienced shooting a .22 during NPCC (crap huh?) the only time i missed is when my hands are trembling.. -
Aiya just joking lar... u see the smileyface?? I know lar.... By the way where u learn shooting from?Originally posted by chunyong:erm...the gun not held the normal way loh and i have tried it multiple times, not once hit me before. if such obvious thing also not ruled out the method won't be taught liao lah...wah liew.... -
Wat competition issit?? Safisum?Originally posted by storywolf:Praetorian111,
"U decork the pistol and shoot issit?? I think p229 or p228 there is a version specially made for Asian."
I don't de-cork the pistol and shoot it, sorry they don't allow it in shooting competitions. Last time, me blur blur sotong, got drag into a special full 2 weeks course for revolver shooting for competition. -
heh... quite awkward leh... weapon is horizontal, ur fren is proned down, HOW he knock the butt hard on the ground???Originally posted by SpecOps87:Eh CX,actually to be frank right.I dun think your fren was tokin cock.Coz rite,I in NCC.Den during our 100m Classification shoot,I assisting one bugger.He loaded,safe liaoz.Den instead of resting the weapon on sandbag,due to his small size,he knocked the butt on the ground pretty hard,and a round went off.So,yes,I have seen it before,and yes,it has been proven that the M16S1 does fire even though it is placed in the "SAFE" mode.
I know that from personal experience cuz I was farked by the range conducting officer and also the safety officer for not ensuring that my the firer's weapon is at "SAFE".The firer,also blur,he showed his weapon which was still at "SAFE" to the both of them.They both down there paiseh,change the weapon.So,I ain't making it up man.
but if your bolt is behind, then there is a chance that the knock on the rifle butt might cause the bolt to ease-spring and the round to discharge. but that's still DAMN unlikely unless u have a messed up or a hot weapon.
normally, an ease-spring doesn't discharge a round. the firing pin is too short to hit the percussion cap with enough force.
but if that was the case, then u have followed the wrong procedures cos NO ONE loads an M16 and leaves the bolt open. if u were walking around liddat, put on safe also not really safe one. its called "the stupidity factor" in army language.
normal procedure is to "load and ready" by (1) loading a mag (2) cocking the rifle, thereby closing the bolt...
and there is VERY little chance for a bump on the butt to knock the trigger mechanism loose. it's pretty tight...
one last thing: your "M16" got forward assist or not? if not, then the weapon is older than u and not likely to be 100% very safe at any rate...
u see... the thing is, if my old fren was using a SAW and he cited that incident, nobody would have doubted him... but to tell that tall tale with an M16? now WHY wouldn't pple believe him IF it COULD have happened?
not trying to say that your scenario is BS... but that its really DAMN unlikely... properly working M16s do not behave that way unless under VERY extreme operating conditions.