Does SAF issue sidearm to the soldiers during actual combat?
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ha, not necessary kill officers 1st. we can also ID out snipers by their long barrels, dats why snipers always use their arms to hide their weapons, u don't see them slinging it. anyway, snipers don't follow infantry, they are normally either behind or infront, never moves with the infantry unless the infantry have to aid them in their returning part. sniper can do wonders, they can turn the tide, disable comms, create chaos, set fear into enemy and cripple stuff.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Not issued with P226? If that is the case, than the weapons I learnt and trained with at OETI and still see regularly without fail everyday must be of paranormal origin eh?I serve 2.5 years of crap and I'm trained as an armament specialist.Now don't go about deriding people's knowledge cuz they gave up 2.5 years of otherwise productive and fruitful life.You are so ignorant that it hurts to have you even utter the name P226.
we can also disable the front and last vehicle so as to 'block' escape routes b4 we slowly take out the rest. -
Correct to certain extent, however a drum magazine would hinder agility tooAnd you need the discipline to fire in short bursts..Will our general infantryman have the self-contro not to let loose all they have in one swoop?I'm not sure.Originally posted by tvdog:Actually, I would do the reverse.
If I have a mixture of drum and 30-round box magazines, I would use the box magazines when I'm in an entrenched and protected position whereas I would use the drum magazine for close-quarter urban or jungle fighting.
Simple reasons.
When entrenched it means I am protected to a certain degree and also the enemy could be further away. So it gives me time to change from 30-round clip to the next 30-round clip.
But in a close-quarter situation be it FIBUA, FOFO or a in a tight spot in the jungle, constantly stopping to change magazine could be very bad thing to be doing.
Yes yes, i believe in marksmanship that's a given, but marksmanship cannot always make up for the lack of firepower in a desperate situation. -
Hi,
I use the drum twice.... in general it is heavier then the 30 rds but
then why we use the drum? cos we use it as a support/fire base...
like as a support/covering fire in a sustain role...
Fire control of course is very important as well....
on the carrying it part... this is the real problem... how many
can you carry especially on our asian body in general??
Just think of carry a full combat load in SBO plus the ammo/bomb
for the support.... now easy in a long march!! -
a reason sniper don't normally sling but hold it in their arms cos it is easy to deploy in this way when in the field.... plus to offer some degree of protecting the barrel. This is a precision weapon and the barrel is free floated to achieve the first round hit.Originally posted by chunyong:ha, not necessary kill officers 1st. we can also ID out snipers by their long barrels, dats why snipers always use their arms to hide their weapons, u don't see them slinging it. anyway, snipers don't follow infantry, they are normally either behind or infront, never moves with the infantry unless the infantry have to aid them in their returning part. sniper can do wonders, they can turn the tide, disable comms, create chaos, set fear into enemy and cripple stuff.
we can also disable the front and last vehicle so as to 'block' escape routes b4 we slowly take out the rest.
Even travelling on vehicle/plane, the rifle are hold up right to minimise impact to it...
back to the topic... i will wear the sidearm when require. -
yup, long barrel gives off ur vocation and definitely the 1st rd goes to u...no gd no gd...Originally posted by dlte:a reason sniper don't normally sling but hold it in their arms cos it is easy to deploy in this way when in the field.... plus to offer some degree of protecting the barrel. This is a precision weapon and the barrel is free floated to achieve the first round hit.
Even travelling on vehicle/plane, the rifle are hold up right to minimise impact to it...
back to the topic... i will wear the sidearm when require.
free floated must be able to slot a bent poker card inside. -
guess you know the trade. still active??Originally posted by chunyong:yup, long barrel gives off ur vocation and definitely the 1st rd goes to u...no gd no gd...
free floated must be able to slot a bent poker card inside. -
yeah it can be a real bummer to carry i suppose. Those American Al Capone style gangsters were really something... those old Thompson Subbies with the drum mags and the more older foregrip layout were sure heavy as hell to carry.Originally posted by tvdog:Heng
I believe large mag capacity is a double-edged sword.
The advantage is obvious but the disadvantage is it makes your weapon very heavy and clumsy until you start emptying the mag.
Small SMG calibre still OK but eg Ultimax with 100-round drum must be quite jia-lat to carry. I've only ever used the Ultimax with empty drums and live ammo only 30-round mag so I don't even know how heavy a fully-loaded 100-round drum feels.
I don't know from experience which is better. Do you?
Which would you rather have? I think I'll still go for bigger capacity. -
not sure if sg doctrine is the same, but i read the USMC sniper coursebook b4, and the no.1 target for their sniper is always the enemy sniper.Originally posted by chunyong:ha, not necessary kill officers 1st. we can also ID out snipers by their long barrels, dats why snipers always use their arms to hide their weapons, u don't see them slinging it. anyway, snipers don't follow infantry, they are normally either behind or infront, never moves with the infantry unless the infantry have to aid them in their returning part. sniper can do wonders, they can turn the tide, disable comms, create chaos, set fear into enemy and cripple stuff.
we can also disable the front and last vehicle so as to 'block' escape routes b4 we slowly take out the rest. -
they dun want me liao leh, hope they forget abt me and i totally disappaear from all their recordsOriginally posted by dlte:guess you know the trade. still active??
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One sniper is another sniper's most important target?
So if a sniper sees an enemy general and an enemy sniper standing together who would he shoot first? -
enemy sniper. because if u dun kill him, he will kill u and that certainly destroys any chance of u getting to kill the general doesn't it?Originally posted by tvdog:One sniper is another sniper's most important target?
So if a sniper sees an enemy general and an enemy sniper standing together who would he shoot first? -
Actually,snipers are a breed apart from other men.A sniper detail is usually made up of two persons,the team leader(sniper) and the spotter.The sniper is usually armed with the sniping rifle,in SAF's case often a bolt action Styer SSG (but have seen them using the Accuracy International L96A1 PM sniping rifle too) while the spotter carries a semi-automatic/automatic scoped weapon like a M-16S1 with Marksman scope or the Car-15 with scope.The sniper's role is to deliver that crucial shot on the enemy,while the spotter has two jobs.1 is to protect the sniper as such he is armed with an assault rifle and not a dedicated sniping weapon and also to help the sniper spot his target.
And it is also true that when settin up for ops,the sniper team's 1st priority is to take out the enemy snipers.As they also receive similiar training and are trained to take snipers out too.My teacher who was in Guards in the early 90s told us that snipers are so highly trained that he witnessed this officer who shot at the width of a 5mm metal sheet from a range of 800m away using only 2 rounds.The 1st is the spotting round,the officer struck the target,but it just shook alittle,the second round the metal sheet dropped.As such,it goes to show the precision of the sniper and his spotter's training and the integration where weapon,optics and 2 humans operate as one.
**PLEASE GET BACK TO THE TOPIC ABOUT SIDEARMS**
And if I'm not wrong...the Calico is not a SMG but an oversized pistol. -
wrong, General. i rather kill the General and risk being killed than kill the sniper and raise the alarm and the General crawls to safety. Assuming both targets have the same difficulty and time to engage. Of cos, they seldom deploy odd number snipers, u have to count on your buddy to look out.Originally posted by HENG@:enemy sniper. because if u dun kill him, he will kill u and that certainly destroys any chance of u getting to kill the general doesn't it?
The 1st shot is the most important.... secondly, its much difficult to engage a prone enemy. without the man on top, they would be chaos, without the sniper, they just lost their precision fire ability. -
ha, can be trained one lah. 5mm quite ok lah...but the SSG fails terribly when it rains, any Guards Sniper can tell u dat... the Guards sniper shoot and shoot, of cos good lah...practice make perfect.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Actually,snipers are a breed apart from other men.A sniper detail is usually made up of two persons,the team leader(sniper) and the spotter.The sniper is usually armed with the sniping rifle,in SAF's case often a bolt action Styer SSG (but have seen them using the Accuracy International L96A1 PM sniping rifle too) while the spotter carries a semi-automatic/automatic scoped weapon like a M-16S1 with Marksman scope or the Car-15 with scope.The sniper's role is to deliver that crucial shot on the enemy,while the spotter has two jobs.1 is to protect the sniper as such he is armed with an assault rifle and not a dedicated sniping weapon and also to help the sniper spot his target.
And it is also true that when settin up for ops,the sniper team's 1st priority is to take out the enemy snipers.As they also receive similiar training and are trained to take snipers out too.My teacher who was in Guards in the early 90s told us that snipers are so highly trained that he witnessed this officer who shot at the width of a 5mm metal sheet from a range of 800m away using only 2 rounds.The 1st is the spotting round,the officer struck the target,but it just shook alittle,the second round the metal sheet dropped.As such,it goes to show the precision of the sniper and his spotter's training and the integration where weapon,optics and 2 humans operate as one.
**PLEASE GET BACK TO THE TOPIC ABOUT SIDEARMS**
And if I'm not wrong...the Calico is not a SMG but an oversized pistol. -
Training is one but a person orientation and apptitude towardOriginally posted by chunyong:ha, can be trained one lah. 5mm quite ok lah...but the SSG fails terribly when it rains, any Guards Sniper can tell u dat... the Guards sniper shoot and shoot, of cos good lah...practice make perfect.
sniping is also important. Potential shooters are selected
and go thru tests before actually attend the course.
I remember my batch got about 50+ candidates but eventually only
20 odd get into course proper. End of course only exactly 20 passed and that is only the basic course...
It is also this time that pistol (or sidearms per this topic) was
introduced to me and love it for life after that. -
ha, my friend fail pilot enrollment, ganna posted immediately to Guards Sniper. now more and more youngsters with bad eyesight, see those primary sch kids, all majiam thick spects....sigh..Originally posted by dlte:Training is one but a person orientation and apptitude toward
sniping is also important. Potential shooters are selected
and go thru tests before actually attend the course.
I remember my batch got about 50+ candidates but eventually only
20 odd get into course proper. End of course only exactly 20 passed and that is only the basic course...
It is also this time that pistol (or sidearms per this topic) was
introduced to me and love it for life after that. -
OK, pertaining to the topic, do snipers carry sidearms. If so, what sidearms?
And back to the target choice.
I, too, would shoot the general first. Isn't the sniper's job to kill enemy leaders first?
Eliminating enemy leaders could change the course of a battle. Of course I don't debate the importance of killing enemy snipers either, but enemy leaders come first. -
no sidearms as far i know abt Guards and cdo NS sideOriginally posted by tvdog:OK, pertaining to the topic, do snipers carry sidearms. If so, what sidearms?
And back to the target choice.
I, too, would shoot the general first. Isn't the sniper's job to kill enemy leaders first?
Eliminating enemy leaders could change the course of a battle. Of course I don't debate the importance of killing enemy snipers either, but enemy leaders come first. -
The SAF is unlikely to issue / deploy P90 to signallers or sidearms for most of its men for a very simple reason:
It's called Logistics.
Lessons from WW2 and previous wars WWI, pre-WWI skirmishes have shown a need for common ammo / reduced variations. The US army had to juggle with rounds for M1, SMG, BAR, Carbines, MG, and sidearms.
The resulting lessons from WW2 was to standardise ammo, hence the search for a silver bullet. The 7.62 was initially selected but was too powerful and heavy. This finally led to the US bulldozing everyone else to use its 5.56mm.
As it was not adequate for heavy MG fire, the 7.62mm continued to be used. To reduce logistics requirements for squad level and yet have adequate firepower, the squad auto weapon was developed, a role initially filled by M60 MG (7.62mm) during the Vietnam era. The US tried a heavy barrel M-16 as a SAW to replace the heavy M60 but was unsatisfactory. This led to the development of the current SAW M249 (5.56mm) after the war.
For SG, we used to use the M-16 HB, before replacing it with the SAW / Ultimax-100.
Having a P90 / sidearms means additional logistics requirements from the current 5.56mm (section) and 7.62mm ammo (platoon). Imagine your S4 sending you P90 rounds when you are carrying SAR-21.
Or you ran out of P90 rounds but have excess of 5.56mm.... -
i dunno about SAF, but if I were to go according to the USMC's official Sniper's Coursebook, the doctrine says to shoot the enemy sniper 1st.Originally posted by HENG@:enemy sniper. because if u dun kill him, he will kill u and that certainly destroys any chance of u getting to kill the general doesn't it? -
all depends on each individual, see if u put wat as priority, survival, mission or outcome of the war. theory everything also ideal, real life different liao loh....its not just point-aim-shoot dat simpleOriginally posted by HENG@:i dunno about SAF, but if I were to go according to the USMC's official Sniper's Coursebook, the doctrine says to shoot the enemy sniper 1st. -
The problem you mention is more of a training and ammo issue. When it rain, even armed with any sniper rifle, unless you do cater for adjustment of the drag and wind of the wind, also depend on the effect on the ammo also. Possible the L96 will perform better as its barrel is design even to operate in artic environment, but cannot say that the SSG fail terrible due to insufficient training cater to shoot the SSG in the rain.Originally posted by chunyong:ha, can be trained one lah. 5mm quite ok lah...but the SSG fails terribly when it rains, any Guards Sniper can tell u dat... the Guards sniper shoot and shoot, of cos good lah...practice make perfect. -
erm, i know abt the wind and drop compensation. it is wat some Guards snipers told me, i never use SSG b4 so i do not know. of cos, we do not always have the pleasure of using NATO stuff. maybe the gaurds are tired cos they have to run to target and run bk b4 they have to shoot ? so they already run 800m alreadyOriginally posted by storywolf:The problem you mention is more of a training and ammo issue. When it rain, even armed with any sniper rifle, unless you do cater for adjustment of the drag and wind of the wind, also depend on the effect on the ammo also. Possible the L96 will perform better as its barrel is design even to operate in artic environment, but cannot say that the SSG fail terrible due to insufficient training cater to shoot the SSG in the rain.