Land mines in use
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What are the types/makes/models of mines used by us, and what are the current methods of delivery and activation other than manual human-laden and pressure-activated, or trip-wire/deliberate activation
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ah ... I hope I won't hijack this thread, but the topic of mines is one that has been bugging me a couple of years.
Back in the Army days, we were trained to lay AP mines and AT mines, and whatever booby traps we can contrive.
I don't have a problem with AT mines and booby traps but I really have a "conflict of interests" with AP mines.
If I remember correctly, Singapore has always preched against and condemned against the proliferation of mines, esp in AP mines.
Yet, we are manufacturing, training and advocating the use of AP mines in our SAF doctrine.
I wonder if anyone can help clarify this agenda? -
Is two separate issuesOriginally posted by vleelee:ah ... I hope I won't hijack this thread, but the topic of mines is one that has been bugging me a couple of years.
Back in the Army days, we were trained to lay AP mines and AT mines, and whatever booby traps we can contrive.
I don't have a problem with AT mines and booby traps but I really have a "conflict of interests" with AP mines.
If I remember correctly, Singapore has always preched against and condemned against the proliferation of mines, esp in AP mines.
Yet, we are manufacturing, training and advocating the use of AP mines in our SAF doctrine.
I wonder if anyone can help clarify this agenda?
Anti-proliferation because of the utter disregard of responsibility/ownership of laying of mines by dictatorships/rogue nations against their opponents, viewed in large by the world as victims of human rights violations
However, when local military has to lay mines, is for defence, legitimate impeding of enemy's advances purposes and the mined areas are known by the layers, to be de-mined at opportune time, or the use of so-called 'green' mines to render them deactivated after sometime
Now, hope that my original question in the topic still stands to be answered... -
Well not sure of what we use anymore, sure hate the memory of digging mines !
But remember in thailand, was shown a activation device, that can switch between sound and light mode. That mean if set to sound mode, it will detonate on certain sound level. If set to light mode, you can cover it with a cloth and if you lift the cloth and light get in and it detonate.
We are suppose to see an actual demo on it but end up we are the demo, because someone set set it wrong, and while we are admiring it, it blow up ! It is armed with real C4, but lucky the is no stones or anything nearby so all only get concursion only and cover with dust. -
vleelee
"ah ... I hope I won't hijack this thread, but the topic of mines is one that has been bugging me a couple of years.
Back in the Army days, we were trained to lay AP mines and AT mines, and whatever booby traps we can contrive.
I don't have a problem with AT mines and booby traps but I really have a "conflict of interests" with AP mines.
If I remember correctly, Singapore has always preched against and condemned against the proliferation of mines, esp in AP mines.
Yet, we are manufacturing, training and advocating the use of AP mines in our SAF doctrine.
I wonder if anyone can help clarify this agenda? "
Well the proliferation of mines, have gaps in it that still allow countries to use it. It is more to protect irresponsible laying of mines. That mean you must fence it up and mark with proper markings and warnings. Also accept the responsibility of remove them after war.
A lot of countries like US and singapore cannot do away with mines. What they are doing advance research into technology in expiration date of mines. That mean, once layed, after certain time, they will self detonate, this remove the need to remove them and prevent the event of in long time forget about them and they end up dangerous when forgotten. -
I heard there's methods of laying mines whereby its close to almost impossible to remove the mine.
1 method is 4AP mines, 3 of them in a closed triangle formation while the 4th one is under all 3 of the mines. This way, if you tried to remove the any of the 3 top AP mine, the 4th one below the 3 AP mines will trigger and explode. So how do you disarm it? Only way, I see it is by using a C4 charge.
2 method is 2 AP mines, 1AP mine on top, while the other is below, the trick is the type of AP mine used below...
There are so many of these methods out there, I really sympathize our engineers who have to 'dig' and search and disarm the mine... if they encounter of any these methods, they're dead!
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They will just use mine ploughs or flail-type clearing methods - all mechanical and on vehiclesOriginally posted by :I heard there's methods of laying mines whereby its close to almost impossible to remove the mine.
1 method is 4AP mines, 3 of them in a closed triangle formation while the 4th one is under all 3 of the mines. This way, if you tried to remove the any of the 3 top AP mine, the 4th one below the 3 AP mines will trigger and explode. So how do you disarm it? Only way, I see it is by using a C4 charge.
2 method is 2 AP mines, 1AP mine on top, while the other is below, the trick is the type of AP mine used below...
There are so many of these methods out there, I really sympathize our engineers who have to 'dig' and search and disarm the mine... if they encounter of any these methods, they're dead! -
I hate laying/clearing mines. period.
Anyway, regarding the methods mentioned that says that mines can be arranged in such a way that it can't be cleared, i have my reservations...
The 3 mines on top of 1 mine one, i mean, juz use your hand and remove the mines 1 by 1 loh (if pressure mode), UNLESS that mine below works by pressure release detonation, then whoever's clearing it are screwed. -
ACtually, if you are on foot, juz skirt the minefield. hehehe.. save all the hassle. Then when the engineers come, ask them clear and alternate route beside it.
I mean, how big can a minefield get? hehehe.... better than risk life and slowly go dig rite?
Or better still, ask ST to design an 'overhead bridge' vehicle to deploy an overhead bridge over the minefield. hehehe...
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How much pressure is required to trigger off an AP mine typical ? e.g. in N/mm2Originally posted by 12qwaszx:I hate laying/clearing mines. period.
Anyway, regarding the methods mentioned that says that mines can be arranged in such a way that it can't be cleared, i have my reservations...
The 3 mines on top of 1 mine one, i mean, juz use your hand and remove the mines 1 by 1 loh (if pressure mode), UNLESS that mine below works by pressure release detonation, then whoever's clearing it are screwed. -
I forgot to add another method they love to use....Originally posted by panzerjager:They will just use mine ploughs or flail-type clearing methods - all mechanical and on vehicles
They make you think its just 3AP mine on top and the usual 1 AP mine below, but there's something else, there's another AT mine below!!!! Oh oh oh oh....
There goes 1 mine driver!
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Thats the point I was making... its easy to find the AP mine just below the ground, but its really hard to dug whats below it... one move of that mine.... and you can say bye bye!Originally posted by 12qwaszx:I hate laying/clearing mines. period.
Anyway, regarding the methods mentioned that says that mines can be arranged in such a way that it can't be cleared, i have my reservations...
The 3 mines on top of 1 mine one, i mean, juz use your hand and remove the mines 1 by 1 loh (if pressure mode), UNLESS that mine below works by pressure release detonation, then whoever's clearing it are screwed.
Much rather just use a C4 to clear... but where got so many C4 charges to clear all the mines?
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The flail is rather effective because it provides a stand-off for the vehicle to destroy whatever is underground ahead of the vehicle itself, unlike the plough which is almost immediately infront of the vehicleOriginally posted by :I forgot to add another method they love to use....
They make you think its just 3AP mine on top and the usual 1 AP mine below, but there's something else, there's another AT mine below!!!! Oh oh oh oh....
There goes 1 mine driver! -
Is C4 or fertilizer more powerful effectOriginally posted by panzerjager:The flail is rather effective because it provides a stand-off for the vehicle to destroy whatever is underground ahead of the vehicle itself, unlike the plough which is almost immediately infront of the vehicle -
Mines can be delivered by artillery or aircraft. (Several mines in a shell or bomb and scattered around the battlefield).
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Why must combat engineers slowly dig out 1 landmine by 1 landmine? Can't they use an explosive charge like the SAF's Projected Line Charge?
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can~Originally posted by Langley:Why must combat engineers slowly dig out 1 landmine by 1 landmine? Can't they use an explosive charge like the SAF's Projected Line Charge?
who pay? you ah?
who carry? you again ah? -
~twin post~Originally posted by Langley:Why must combat engineers slowly dig out 1 landmine by 1 landmine? Can't they use an explosive charge like the SAF's Projected Line Charge? -
if i remember correctly, AP need about 4kg of pressure to set it off. But it is mine specific lah, must see what kind of AP you using.
PLC only can clear small small hole in the ground, not a long term solution for MSR clearing. Therefore must lan lan dig 1 by 1 out -
Actually it is quite unlikely someone will try to put so many mines in 1 hole juz to get 1 person. hehehe... quite a waste of ammo and it defeat the purpose of minefield laying.Originally posted by :I forgot to add another method they love to use....
They make you think its just 3AP mine on top and the usual 1 AP mine below, but there's something else, there's another AT mine below!!!! Oh oh oh oh....
There goes 1 mine driver!
mines are use as part of a DEFENSIVE strategy to impede enemy mobility, not as an OFFENSIVE move. -
Incidentally, Singapore happens to manufacture quite a lot of mines.
Conflict of interests for Spore to ratify UN Convention against Landmines.
Mines are usually used in area denial or force channeling operations. When you are faced with an old-fashioned Soviet tank rush, the only real hope sometimes is mines, unless you have enough arty zeroed in to kill all those tanks.
The standard AP and AT mines are bad enough, throw in the cluster munitions that can be delivered courtesy air freight and you are in a world of hurt. Mix in delayed fuses and nobody is going to using that piece of land for a long time.
Projected Line Charge type systems typically can only clear one "lane" for vehicles and personnel, not very cost-effective for long term mine disposal. -
try cluster bomb... cargo rounds... FAEs to denotate the mines... in emergencies...
but if got time..... chop down afew coconut trees, tied them together and have a soil excavator roll it across theminefield... cheap cheap somemore.. -
Correction, PLC cannot clear vehicular lane. Only applicable for personnel.Originally posted by kurios55:Incidentally, Singapore happens to manufacture quite a lot of mines. Conflict of interests for Spore to ratify UN Convention against Landmines.
Mines are usually used in area denial or force channeling operations. When you are faced with an old-fashioned Soviet tank rush, the only real hope sometimes is mines, unless you have enough arty zeroed in to kill all those tanks.
The standard AP and AT mines are bad enough, throw in the cluster munitions that can be delivered courtesy air freight and you are in a world of hurt. Mix in delayed fuses and nobody is going to using that piece of land for a long time.
Projected Line Charge type systems typically can only clear one "lane" for vehicles and personnel, not very cost-effective for long term mine disposal. -
There are other methods as well, 1 AP mine attached at the bottom to a Spike AP mine...Originally posted by 12qwaszx:Actually it is quite unlikely someone will try to put so many mines in 1 hole juz to get 1 person. hehehe... quite a waste of ammo and it defeat the purpose of minefield laying.
mines are use as part of a DEFENSIVE strategy to impede enemy mobility, not as an OFFENSIVE move.
Most popular is the Spike mine on top of a pressure sensitive AP mine, hence Spike shoots up split sec and the same time the pressure sensitive mine explodes causing a secondary exposion making it really powerful spkies to fly in all directions, hence area of danger can be about 10 m - 50m... -
this seems to be a good read on mine clearance techniques
http://www.hdic.jmu.edu/journal/3.2/focus/hess_systems/hess.htm