Fighting In BUilt Up Area
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Greetings to all,as you may guess from the topic.This is one about FIBUA.Well,there are many techniques employed by different countries across the world.
Recently saw a documentary on 2SIR doing FIBUA.SAF got use FlashBang one mehz?I thought SAF only uses the SFG87 grenade?Not sure if the type is wrong.And also,undestand that the typical way of entry is,to lob a FlashBang/Grenade into the room 1st,then stick the weapon through the window,and fire in AUTO till the mag is empty.Then a second person does the same.Aft that a 3rd person enters through the window,followed by the rest.
Well,in theory,it sounds nice.But have anyone done LIVE FIRING for FIBUA before?When you dump fire in AUTO,won't the Ball rounds ricohet off the wall and pose a health hazard to the firer and those around him?
Lastly,the section grenadier is armed with the M203 with M16S1 combo,and I do understand that he is equipped with HE and HEDP rounds.But is he equipped with other rounds for the M203 like the WP,CS etc...And wat is the difference between the HE,and the HEDP?
Thanks....
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From what I understand the standard issue is HEDP and not HE. HEDP is "dual purpose" so it has both anti-personnel as well as anti-armour (minimal, only enough to penetrate thin-skinned vehicles) effects until HE which only have anti personnel effects.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Greetings to all,as you may guess from the topic.This is one about FIBUA.Well,there are many techniques employed by different countries across the world.
Recently saw a documentary on 2SIR doing FIBUA.SAF got use FlashBang one mehz?I thought SAF only uses the SFG87 grenade?Not sure if the type is wrong.And also,undestand that the typical way of entry is,to lob a FlashBang/Grenade into the room 1st,then stick the weapon through the window,and fire in AUTO till the mag is empty.Then a second person does the same.Aft that a 3rd person enters through the window,followed by the rest.
Well,in theory,it sounds nice.But have anyone done LIVE FIRING for FIBUA before?When you dump fire in AUTO,won't the Ball rounds ricohet off the wall and pose a health hazard to the firer and those around him?
Lastly,the section grenadier is armed with the M203 with M16S1 combo,and I do understand that he is equipped with HE and HEDP rounds.But is he equipped with other rounds for the M203 like the WP,CS etc...And wat is the difference between the HE,and the HEDP?
Thanks....
What you had watched is basically a "drill", doesn't mean that they will do it each and everytime.
Not sure what is the standard load-out for a "Grenadier". But in reality very few people actually have involved in "real" ops before. right?
I don't think the "FlashBang" is a standard issue. The use of Flashbang is predominantly to protect hostages from being harmed. in a SAF FIBUA scenario, everyone in the building is considered hostile, so no need for FlashBang. In a Anti-Terror or HRT or SOF scenario, the above will not apply.
What you see is probably thunderflash is which will give a big bang and a flash and is suppose to stimulate a Grenade. -
Live firing fibua is into a specially made room with lotsa of sandbags and wooden pillars...so that the richochet won't kill us trainees doing the life firing. as far as i could remember we only were allowed to fire two rounds into each corner before siaming for the next guy to come in. How this doctrine would work in real life really beats me since there won;t be those kind of "safety measures" to help us. Furthermore, when we did the flashbang grenade drill, it really made our ears ring - also wonder how that really works in real life cos you do get really disoriented when you have done a few rooms within one building.
the solution is probably to do more drills - practice made perfect... -
FIBUA is the last thing ground troops would ever want to get into.
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not sure how it is done now...
but i remember tat we did live-firing for FIBUA, wif auto on... but we dun emptied the whole mag lah, if we do tat we run out of ammo veri fast leh... -
FIBUA exe in SAF is usually a 2 men team to clear a room, when using blank is full auto but during live firing only semi auto in a very controlled situation , just to give you a feel. Reason , safety.
But in a real war, many armies dun practice such "room clearing" anymore, becos the enemy could have fortified the building with many booby traps ,explosive and ambushes etc.
Nowadays, armies simply surround the building, call in arty or airstrike to bomb the building to rubble or at least no enemy fire b4 sending the troops in just to make sure.
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To answer your question, LIVE firing Fibua in Singapore is conducted near Sungei Gedong camp (gotta report to this camp to commence firing here).
The ball projectile will not bounce around the wall as the fibua room has been designed to prevent this. The side walls are fortified with rubber matting just like those on running tracks. The wall you will be shooting at has dense rubber curtain reinforced with steel mesh. There is state of art ventilation system in place so that we will not be breathing in lead dust.
Only Ball Projectile up to 7.62mm is permitted to be fired here. No tracers, wadcutters, hollow points etc. -
tape on 2 sir doing fibua? wow. i guess it was a trg tape and not some entertainment ones?Originally posted by SpecOps87:Recently saw a documentary on 2SIR doing FIBUA.SAF got use FlashBang one mehz?I thought SAF only uses the SFG87 grenade?Not sure if the type is wrong.And also,undestand that the typical way of entry is,to lob a FlashBang/Grenade into the room 1st,then stick the weapon through the window,and fire in AUTO till the mag is empty.Then a second person does the same.Aft that a 3rd person enters through the window,followed by the rest.
Well,in theory,it sounds nice.But have anyone done LIVE FIRING for FIBUA before?When you dump fire in AUTO,won't the Ball rounds ricohet off the wall and pose a health hazard to the firer and those around him?
Lastly,the section grenadier is armed with the M203 with M16S1 combo,and I do understand that he is equipped with HE and HEDP rounds.But is he equipped with other rounds for the M203 like the WP,CS etc...And wat is the difference between the HE,and the HEDP?
Thanks....
anyway fibua, in my opinion, requires real quick thinking and lots of decentralised decision making, flexibility and o cos, ammo. everyone should be very proficient with their wpns and their characteristics to be able to make full use of them. there is no time to radio and ask for orders. hence the challenge of fibua fighting. -
from SpecOps87 a second person does the same.Aft that a 3rd person enters through the window,followed by the rest.
sure or not this is wat SAF teach now, the rest followed go in 
BUA does not oni mean HDB kind of lay out kay?
fight in BUA 
ask the Opfor how they fight 
CDO had a taste with 1st ATEC Opfor/AGG in Thai. ask them how they get in. at wat cost what kind of early warning systerm we had for them, you will be surprise, nothing fancy, no even flare did we used on them.
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Hey Joshua,share lehz...V.V.interested to know.Anyway also heard frm my colleague that when they role-play as OPFOR,got some more garang people,aft they throw in the Flashbang/THunderflash,they will grab and throw out.WOnder through anot..
And also alitle question,looking at the standard size of our windows,how does our dear-friend the signaller get in man?He dump the radio in den climb in ah?FIBUA,seems really complex.Almost like an art.Anyone has any good websites to share or anything to share can OM me if its sensitive.Thanks!!! -
i would recommend watching band of brothers. there is one episode where they were fighting fibua, and it was done rather realistically.
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From what i know now the FIBUA doctrine is changing, from just charging in the room to looking for hostages first b4 entering and clearing. But different units got different style of FIBUA but from what i know SISPEC's doctrine on FIBUA(the old version) sucks and very unrealistic. Jut wasting blank rounds and more questions not answered
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The picking up of thrown fb is true. Heard b4.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hey Joshua,share lehz...V.V.interested to know.Anyway also heard frm my colleague that when they role-play as OPFOR,got some more garang people,aft they throw in the Flashbang/THunderflash,they will grab and throw out.WOnder through anot..
And also alitle question,looking at the standard size of our windows,how does our dear-friend the signaller get in man?He dump the radio in den climb in ah?FIBUA,seems really complex.Almost like an art.Anyone has any good websites to share or anything to share can OM me if its sensitive.Thanks!!! -
alot of stuff is wayang one lah....when the time really comes, speed and element of surprise is the key to victory. u don't really follow step 1 blah blah blah step 2 blah blah blah...dats why practice makes perfect. best is throw the flashbang or wat through the window, like dat is better, cos if u use the door, once the door open, they spray on the door and dats it, ur arm or body is injured. somemore the people inside surely focus on the door rather than the window one, its psychology. so once the door open abit, they sure spray the door with lead even b4 u can drop the grenade in or wat.
u throw through the window is safer but coordination is important also lah. leave the stuff to SOF lah...its more of their job in the SAF. -
one is to quickly fill the room with alot of people, one is to bang the room then go in quickly and tactically.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Greetings to all,as you may guess from the topic.This is one about FIBUA.Well,there are many techniques employed by different countries across the world.
Recently saw a documentary on 2SIR doing FIBUA.SAF got use FlashBang one mehz?I thought SAF only uses the SFG87 grenade?Not sure if the type is wrong.And also,undestand that the typical way of entry is,to lob a FlashBang/Grenade into the room 1st,then stick the weapon through the window,and fire in AUTO till the mag is empty.Then a second person does the same.Aft that a 3rd person enters through the window,followed by the rest.
Well,in theory,it sounds nice.But have anyone done LIVE FIRING for FIBUA before?When you dump fire in AUTO,won't the Ball rounds ricohet off the wall and pose a health hazard to the firer and those around him?
Lastly,the section grenadier is armed with the M203 with M16S1 combo,and I do understand that he is equipped with HE and HEDP rounds.But is he equipped with other rounds for the M203 like the WP,CS etc...And wat is the difference between the HE,and the HEDP?
Thanks....
SAS way is to open the door, dash in, squat down and engage while his partner follow through standing. -
Hi SpecOps87,Originally posted by SpecOps87:Greetings to all,as you may guess from the topic.This is one about FIBUA.Well,there are many techniques employed by different countries across the world.
Recently saw a documentary on 2SIR doing FIBUA.SAF got use FlashBang one mehz?I thought SAF only uses the SFG87 grenade?Not sure if the type is wrong.And also,undestand that the typical way of entry is,to lob a FlashBang/Grenade into the room 1st,then stick the weapon through the window,and fire in AUTO till the mag is empty.Then a second person does the same.Aft that a 3rd person enters through the window,followed by the rest.
Well,in theory,it sounds nice.But have anyone done LIVE FIRING for FIBUA before?When you dump fire in AUTO,won't the Ball rounds ricohet off the wall and pose a health hazard to the firer and those around him?
Lastly,the section grenadier is armed with the M203 with M16S1 combo,and I do understand that he is equipped with HE and HEDP rounds.But is he equipped with other rounds for the M203 like the WP,CS etc...And wat is the difference between the HE,and the HEDP?
Thanks....
All are the same, in the army when it come to fibua. Remember this is not Swat operations, your mission is to kill not to take alive.
The Flashbang is use in training in the place of grenades. The grenades is alway thow in first, after the grenade, the team will shoot in from door or window to ensure that all things is dead in auto before anyone even attempt to jump or step in, of course if call for another grenade can be use, by then no problem of richoet. It is not after grenade, and charge in ! that is stupid !
The HE is high explosive, for general use, while the HEDP is more for light armour or vehicles. -
in my point of view, ex for fighting in BUA is just to let you have a feel of what it is like, as a pioneer AGG during ATEC, we are all over the place waiting for the BN to come. our objective is to hold back the H-hour and cause lots of casualty to the BN, by having nature or man made obstacle for the BN to over come b4 facing us in or near the building or so call village. AGG were given the free play on obstacle as well as real time sit changes for the BN to react. what the eye and ears of the BN get in the morning say at 1000hrs may not be the same 2hrs later. dou ex enemy will be wipe out in the end. oni those unit can't really make it, the ex will be call off by ATEC Comd and carry on to the next mission, it does happen to some unit.
some may say "hey we have fire on the enemy objective..." so wat, the enemy oso have fire on you when you are moving in. let say you in defend of a BUA and fire start coming in what will you do? think abt it?
back to BUA, let say in real and in SG i dun think the Army will put one BN in just one BLK or in one town. so does the enemy, be it in a village or HDB like. I just need a PL or less say a section to be in a village or high level building, I have RO which will cause you to get cripple even b4 you can come near me, remember you are in my ground.
one thing, maybe not all will know or notice, that is b4 any town, building are plan to build, the army of that country are sure to be involve for he know what kind of space is needed for the troops and weapon if a fight had to be in that area.
Qus: wat is the many small and long vertical opening on top some of the new HDB roofs top for? for decor? the architect like it? and on the small windows in some rooms of the HDB? for ventilation?
Qus: the lay out of some building in major juntion? why is it lay out in such way? -
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/3-06.11/toc.htm
if u want in pdf...
http://www.adtdl.army.mil/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/query/download/FM+3-06.11
very long document, very informative -
The FIBUA scene at Carentan was pretty good, but it only covered the early days of FIBUA in Europe. As the US troops went along, they developed a new technique: instead of running down the streets, they got into the first of a row of houses, blew out the internal walls and cleared the whole row of houses that way.Originally posted by wuming78:i would recommend watching band of brothers. there is one episode where they were fighting fibua, and it was done rather realistically. -
Should change to fighting on fortify build up area. FOFBUA.
FOFO + FIBUA. New doctrine should come out for this type of ops years back.
Look at Gulf War 1 the under ground fortress Sadam has had and look at our Orchard underground link way and the one at Raffles Place link way and many more other link way and tunnel in use or under construction.
Maybe the PDF's can go more on this as they will be fighting in land. -
thats smart!Originally posted by Gedanken:The FIBUA scene at Carentan was pretty good, but it only covered the early days of FIBUA in Europe. As the US troops went along, they developed a new technique: instead of running down the streets, they got into the first of a row of houses, blew out the internal walls and cleared the whole row of houses that way. -
Multi-storey carparks not bad too. Can make a decent fortified postion.
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No more spraying 30 rounds into doors n windows liao. U actually enter n take aimed shots. With the laser of course. hahaha
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when the time comes, many would do the 'ruan qiang shao she'....natural instinct lah.Originally posted by Shotgun:No more spraying 30 rounds into doors n windows liao. U actually enter n take aimed shots. With the laser of course. hahaha