How does one stop a runaway tanker ship?
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Was this topic posted before? If yes, I apologise.
But let's assume the joint patrols etc cannot prevent a tanker or some similarly sized ship gets hijacked..........
How do you stop it from ramming Jurong Island or CNB or another tanker in the Singapore Straits?
What kind of damage aside from oil spills are we expecting?
I tot a suitably modified used floating dry dock would be useful to 'catch' this runaway tanker, slow it down or even lift it out of the water!
The floating dock would be able to limit the explosion damage if any......
If positioned in the right place, it can be almost impossible to escape it.
I think the tanker going at full speed will not be able to out turn a floating dock with powerful enough bow thrusters.
A last line of defence maybe?
Or maybe cheaper and more effective to just land some commandoes and overcome the hijackers? -
I do not have privilege information so the below is pure speculation on my part.
Intel and survelliance is important if the first indication of an attack is when the tanker is 2 minute away from Jurong island, nothing we can do...
We have advance warning. first e try to take over the tanker using NDU with their high speed craft or deployed from heilicopters. Casualties will be expected if the Hijackers are armed. if that fail, then RSN will try to disable the tanker with 76mm fire. Harpoon will be avoided as there is a risk of a collateral damage if the missile go astray.
I said disabled not sink as a sunken tanker will be a threat to both the enviornment as well as to sea navigation.
This is to be avoided since spore depend so much on our port. that is why we are keen on anti-terror measures. -
Unlike cars, tankers (or any large ships for that matter) don't come to a halt immediately....they have a long stopping distance.Originally posted by Fairyland:Was this topic posted before? If yes, I apologise.
But let's assume the joint patrols etc cannot prevent a tanker or some similarly sized ship gets hijacked..........
How do you stop it from ramming Jurong Island or CNB or another tanker in the Singapore Straits?
What kind of damage aside from oil spills are we expecting?
I tot a suitably modified used floating dry dock would be useful to 'catch' this runaway tanker, slow it down or even lift it out of the water!
The floating dock would be able to limit the explosion damage if any......
If positioned in the right place, it can be almost impossible to escape it.
I think the tanker going at full speed will not be able to out turn a floating dock with powerful enough bow thrusters.
A last line of defence maybe?
Or maybe cheaper and more effective to just land some commandoes and overcome the hijackers?
Hence, coming on full speed, no way to halt it unless u blow it out of the water.
Oil spill? - who cares......i mean by all accounts, that's secondary....
Southpark
The Dude -
You will also need to consider the fact that floating docks (or docks of any sort) take hours to empty out.
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no way to stop it in its motion... the RSN would not hav time to react if the fellow is running at full steam towards Jurong Island...
The most we build more sand area around the island... those companies will be away from the coastal areas... so wont be damaged by the collision.
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Co-ordinated assault employing special opfor type tactics:Originally posted by sgboy2004:no way to stop it in its motion... the RSN would not hav time to react if the fellow is running at full steam towards Jurong Island...
The most we build more sand area around the island... those companies will be away from the coastal areas... so wont be damaged by the collision.
First - Quick and stealthy underwater approach by combat swimmers in SDVs from the stern, making use of outskirts of tanker's wake/prop path. If this is unsuccessful, then flanking
approach to intercept path of tanker while underwater. The idea is for combat swimmers to latch onto hull underwater and somehow disable the propulsion manually or with localised explosion - to screw shaft or more difficult - upset course by mangling the rudder
Second - Subsequently, 2-pronged stealthy approach by sea, of advance boarding party for counter-surveilance to neutralise sentry outposts and employ mis-communication tactics in tango's comms network, deceptively.
Third - Stealthy approach by air of airborne raiding element together with main strike team. Raiding element in the form of airborne sniper cover and fire support from agile gunships employing silent rotors and high voltage emission to kill all lighting and cellphone triggers onboard tanker during final assault -
The one thing that is going to bring that couple of hundred of tonnes of ship to a halt is putting the screws in reverse - and you want to use explosives to put those screws out of action?Originally posted by panzerjager:First - Quick and stealthy underwater approach by combat swimmers in SDVs from the stern, making use of outskirts of tanker's wake/prop path. If this is unsuccessful, then flanking
approach to intercept path of tanker while underwater. The idea is for combat swimmers to latch onto hull underwater and somehow disable the propulsion manually or with localised explosion - to screw shaft or more difficult - upset course by mangling the rudder
Maybe you ought to rethink that plan. -
other that what the other guy said about using the screws to stop...it's insane to come in from the stern man....espiecally underwater!!!The amount of current that you'd have to fight againest!plus those big blades frm the screws....i doubt even rambo could do that!!.Originally posted by panzerjager:Co-ordinated assault employing special opfor type tactics:
First - Quick and stealthy underwater approach by combat swimmers in SDVs from the stern, making use of outskirts of tanker's wake/prop path. If this is unsuccessful, then flanking
approach to intercept path of tanker while underwater. The idea is for combat swimmers to latch onto hull underwater and somehow disable the propulsion manually or with localised explosion - to screw shaft or more difficult - upset course by mangling the rudder
Second - Subsequently, 2-pronged stealthy approach by sea, of advance boarding party for counter-surveilance to neutralise sentry outposts and employ mis-communication tactic
s in tango's comms network, deceptively.
Third - Stealthy approach by air of airborne raiding element together with main strike team. Raiding element in the form of airborne sniper cover and fire support from agile gunships employing silent rotors and high voltage emission to kill all lighting and cellphone triggers onboard tanker during final assault
Best is a combine sea and air insertion into the ship.If not blow the bow wide open and sink the damn ship -
If a large ship is hijacked and set to ram our port, there is basically nothing much you can do once it is set in its course because the sheer momentum of the ship means that it will continue travelling forward for some time even after the engines are stopped or for that matter, even if the engines go into full astern(reverse).
About the only thing you can do is to destroy the ship. Unfortunately, if it is a LPG carrier then the resultant explosion will also wipe anything within a klick or 2 of it.
Commandering the ship through use of special forces will only work if you have enough time to change the course of the ship.
Given the relative narrowness of our waters and the number of ships either at anchor or underway, any collision or destruction will cause major damage.
This is a current nightmare scenario for us as well as many other countries like US, Japan, China as the majority of the oil flows through here and a choke here will mean economic suffering or death for them.
There has been evidence that terror elements are training themselves to commandeer a ship and control it as well as training in diving. Couple that with previous witnessed tactics of 'swarming', I think that any navy would be hardpressed patrol the straights without cooperation from the other littoral neighbours in the Straits. -
Ok, yeah, a bit too simplistic about the combat diver assault plan. But the other idea is also not to sink the tanker to stop it anyway, bearing in mind all the crude or LPG/LNG that would pose first and foremost an unfathomable ecological hazard, and then also pragmatic authorities always wanting to save all of that to avoid economic suicide.Originally posted by |-|05|:other that what the other guy said about using the screws to stop...it's insane to come in from the stern man....espiecally underwater!!!The amount of current that you'd have to fight againest!plus those big blades frm the screws....i doubt even rambo could do that!!.
Best is a combine sea and air insertion into the ship.If not blow the bow wide open and sink the damn ship
Ok, let's say dispersed tangos with individual autonomy of setting off charges aside, the quickest measure to buy time against a scenario of tangos with charges, is to isolate the tanker as early as possible. The key to this is move it or keep it as far away from harming anything valuable as possible. The straightforward method would be to forcibly secure the bridge and hold it, while simultaneously searching the entire tanker for tangos and charges to neutralise them.
Again, an advance party to be inserted stealthily to overpower the tangos in the bridge, and hopefully the engine room and open quarters of the upper main decks, against counter-sniper. All this while continuous air support as silent rotored gunships circle to provide airborne sniper cover. After securing all means of control over the ship's course, go all out to hunt the tangos and their charges. The only unbecoming event is for the tangos to set them off before they are flushed out. -
A simple method to avert the collision is to make use of tug boats to nudge the intruder off course. Thats what has been done all the while to maneuver these large behemouths out of port.
After diverting the ship, the SF can come into the picture, storm the ship, save the day and get "black" medals. 
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How fast can a tanker fully-laden go at full speed, 20 knots ? Can tugboats keep up with that and at the same time nudge the tanker at a supposedly oblique path ? Is like charging the tugboat then doing hardright or hardleft swerves to slam into the tanker underwayOriginally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:A simple method to avert the collision is to make use of tug boats to nudge the intruder off course. Thats what has been done all the while to maneuver these large behemouths out of port. After diverting the ship, the SF can come into the picture, storm the ship, save the day and get "black" medals. -
torpedo the bow of the ship....
but the key to blockade the SLOC is not in ramming the ship into singapore harbour...
there are very critical narrow points along the SLOC that is lightly guarded...
the best way is to move the tanker near the critical point and ram itself into another VLCC... that would close off melaka straits for weeks if not months.
the alternative straits lombak and sunda would logically be used as alternatives...
thus a successful attack to severe the entire SLOC would include a simultaneous attack on melaka strait, hormuz strait, panama canal and the suez canal.
unless ships are checked before they enter these straits.. chances is... we wont be able to stop them once they are in the straits or canals.
however... not all is lost...
the bigger the ships are... the longer the time they take to pick up speed...
prior to that... all ships would be checked by the maritime control... the speed, course and locations are set by the controllers...
those ships who refuse to abide would have their ships boarded to ensure compliance... by helo if neccessary.
this would prevent the terrorist from moving those ships towards their target and caught them before the ships pick up too much speed.
but this method requires 24/7 helo forces on standby. -
oh... i got a new idea...
we could use the Fokker 50 MPA to monitor all ships around us.... E-2C also.
then we bring in our APACHE with hellfire to do the stopping??
a volley of 16 hellfire would blow any VLCC right off the sea... -
err the tug boat will be hard to use lah....mainly tug's are used to pull not to push a boat.Anyway there is no need to sercure the bridge since everything in the ship can be contorlled via the engine room......EVERYTHING! well except maybe radio lah but u get my picture.For me just go right for the engine room...secure it and change the course and power of the boat....Originally posted by panzerjager:How fast can a tanker fully-laden go at full speed, 20 knots ? Can tugboats keep up with that and at the same time nudge the tanker at a supposedly oblique path ? Is like charging the tugboat then doing hardright or hardleft swerves to slam into the tanker underway -
I suppose the same priciple is applicable for use by naval vessels as well, provided the ships are able to "scramble" at any moments notice. Just a thought but I think at the present, the SAF's solution is to deploy the Naval SF team (Not sure how sensitive this is so I refrain from naming them).Originally posted by panzerjager:How fast can a tanker fully-laden go at full speed, 20 knots ? Can tugboats keep up with that and at the same time nudge the tanker at a supposedly oblique path ? Is like charging the tugboat then doing hardright or hardleft swerves to slam into the tanker underway -
Well if they are professional, they would have disable the control so that even anyone who board it will not be able to do much.
Usually when control is destory, you can take out the engine room or take out the screws, also that will create drag which will slowly slow down the ship till tug boats can slowly slow it down. -
Mabbe we could manoeuvre one of our old LSTs into the path of a runaway tanker as a last-ditch effort. After all, the best way to stop a ship is another ship. Though this would mean that the driver of such a ship would probably be dying as well.
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engine room the contorls hard to destroy since there are manual overwritesOriginally posted by storywolf:Well if they are professional, they would have disable the control so that even anyone who board it will not be able to do much.
Usually when control is destory, you can take out the engine room or take out the screws, also that will create drag which will slowly slow down the ship till tug boats can slowly slow it down. -
And you do something like Speed2Originally posted by Langley:Mabbe we could manoeuvre one of our old LSTs into the path of a runaway tanker as a last-ditch effort. After all, the best way to stop a ship is another ship. Though this would mean that the driver of such a ship would probably be dying as well.
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How about use of underwater mines set off at a distance off the sides of it's hull to at the least change it's course?
A floating dock with a big flat plate or parafoil sea anchors on the one side acting as a sort of brake may slow it down a little and even change it's course ........buy more time.......send in more re-inforcements to the NDU.......act as a form of containment of damage???
I was thinking sand be used as ballast and stowed behind huge doors.......once you get the 'fish' open all doors and let the sand out! You will need a lot of sand though.
But it's a one shot thingy.....
How feasible will it be to get the tanker into the floating dock in the first place? -
The alternate most brutal and fatal way, ignoring hostages onboard, is to gas the whole tanker. Overfly and target it with airborne dispersed agents like GB or VX gas, once it is ensured isolated as far from shore as possible.Originally posted by Fairyland:How about use of underwater mines set off at a distance off the sides of it's hull to at the least change it's course?
A floating dock with a big flat plate or parafoil sea anchors on the one side acting as a sort of brake may slow it down a little and even change it's course ........buy more time.......send in more re-inforcements to the NDU.......act as a form of containment of damage???
I was thinking sand be used as ballast and stowed behind huge doors.......once you get the 'fish' open all doors and let the sand out! You will need a lot of sand though.
But it's a one shot thingy.....
How feasible will it be to get the tanker into the floating dock in the first place?
After the incident, quickly suck/pump the lingering gas out of the tanker and exhaust into the sea. For air-tight compartments, that's where the 'cleaners' come into place - to completely wipe them off the face of this world -
Do whatever it takes..........so you land these guys on deck, knock off those in the open area, gas the rest of them in the hull.........and takeover the ship........
Ya! Enough time? -
ship too big and heavy to change course easily.And i dun get the part abt the sand......explain more?Originally posted by Fairyland:How about use of underwater mines set off at a distance off the sides of it's hull to at the least change it's course?
A floating dock with a big flat plate or parafoil sea anchors on the one side acting as a sort of brake may slow it down a little and even change it's course ........buy more time.......send in more re-inforcements to the NDU.......act as a form of containment of damage???
I was thinking sand be used as ballast and stowed behind huge doors.......once you get the 'fish' open all doors and let the sand out! You will need a lot of sand though.
But it's a one shot thingy.....
How feasible will it be to get the tanker into the floating dock in the first place? -
1) SPECOPS to secure the vessel from terrorists first
2) Disable all explosives if any.
3) Upon securing vessel, attempt to alter course of vessel.
4) Assume control is damaged, (it can be done by destroying the hydralics leading to the rudder itself, not just the bridge controls, this would ensure permanent damage), activate tugs to push vessel away. Disable all fuel lines to diesels and cut engines so you only have to deal with the inertia.
5) Drop all anchors for crash stop. You can also selectively drop port or starboard anchors to change course. Then again, if the terrorists know better, they should have disabled the anchors.
Once again, time and distances are factors in 4). If there is sufficient time, tugs can push it out of the way from our key installations and shipping ways out to south china sea or simply let her run until she stops.
But time is a key concern. Tugs are slow. Very slow and operate mostly in MPA's port limits. Distance is a major problem. Unless advanced warning is given, there is nothing we could do.
If all explosives are disable or there are no explosive, we can let her run aground since there is little danger of explosive damage beyond oil spills. You are now playing the game of damage control, going for the least damage approach.
No missiles will be used. Look around u. Have you been to MPA Vista to see their VTIS display screen? There are thousands of vessels in Singapore waters and in the TSS. If the push comes to the shove, i would prefer SPECOPS use charges to scuttle her.