Ethnic makeup of army
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Is it me or does it seem that malays and indians tend to sign on as regulars in civil defence,police and military more than Chinese?
It just seems that a lot of policemen i see or Cisco guards all Malay or Indian,then also a lot of regulars seem to be Malay or Indian,though the majority is still Chinese.
What is the policy of Mindef and SAF regarding Muslims serving in sensitive areas or departments,like MSD or ISD or any covert/special/elite forces like SOF,STAR or Special Task Squadron,if any?
I know that we have the token Malay in the RSAF,for the sake of politics. -
confidential info...
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and why should the ethnic composition of the army be confidential?
they release the stats for the academic performance of the different ethnic groups all the time,and on book out nights,just go to the Police Academy at Mount Pleasant,you will see that practically all of the people at the Police Academy doing Police NS are Malay.
Is it that they don't trust the Malay-Muslim community in Singapore?Considering them a "5th Column" of some sort? -
r u a mat?
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this thread shld be closed as it is bulit upon foundations of unrest.
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have faith.... once the malays of singapore stops looking north for solace... we will look upon them to defend all of us.....
slowly... but surely... we are heading that way... let not the difficulties of present times due to unfortunate incidents of the past... cloud your judgement or despair in the brighter future... for all people in singapore.
we live in a very difficult region... our unique racial mix in this region makes us more cautious and our puny territorial size does not make it any easy... and it gets worst when you have neighbouring nations who practice racial biasness, segregation and oppression.
but... have faith, with mutual understand and confidence... we will build a better singapore...
as our PM says.....
"the best of singapore is yet to come".... and i believe him... -
I second the motion. Racial issues should not be discussed.Originally posted by NeonTetra:this thread shld be closed as it is bulit upon foundations of unrest. -
x3...Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:I second the motion. Racial issues should not be discussed.
potentially volatile... -
Originally posted by NeonTetra:this thread shld be closed as it is bulit upon foundations of unrest.
If anyone had lived through, or have parents who lived through the racial unrest of the 60s, the peace that we enjoy with each other now, chinese, malays, indians, eurasians, all the races that make up our citizenry, which is the envy of so many other nations, will be so much greater appreciated.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:I second the motion. Racial issues should not be discussed.
I agree that issues which could potentially undermine that harmony, even if only in this forum should not be discussed here. A very closed-door red-curtain stance i know, but the fundamental social implications are apparent, especially with the current global situation and the possible audience of this forum.
I have great friends not of my race, but we are all singaporeans first, and we together with all races in other nations live in the same global village. -
For ppl who ask,no I am not malay.I'm a mixed blooder.Chinese-Indian-Portueguese,but Singaporean first.
Perhaps this topic may be sensitive to some,but it needs to be broached eventually,to encourage discussion and ensure transparency.
Being part of the minority and the majority in Singapore at the same time,given my mixed heritage,I think I have a right to worry about the seeming Sinosation of Singapore,ppl seemingly becoming more Chinese and listing themselves as Chinese Singaporeans rather than Singaporean Chinese.
I do not doubt the loyalty of most of us on these forums,but sensitive topics must be broached and the air over them cleared.We cannot just avoid this topic,as it may erupt into potential problem later on.
As for the peace in Singapore,I am one of those who knows not to take it for granted.I have suffered racism as well for my mixed heritage,from the older generation of Chinese in Singapore.
We should tackle this issue headon and with cool heads,because sooner or later,imo,we WILL have to face it.
The birth rate for the Chinese community is down,something that they certainly neglect to mention,while the Indian,Chinese and Eurasian as well as most "other" communities are at replacement levels.
While others may say that this topic should be locked,due to its sensitivity,I say rather that,yes,it is sensitive,but the point I make is that discussion should not be avoided just because it may rankle some.I already said WHY we SHOULD discuss this topic,and request that the moderators consider at the very least allowing this topic to be discussed under their watch and not simply lock it. -
President Habibie has made a statement accusing SAF of discrimination against the minority in the past.Originally posted by Sardaukar:Is it me or does it seem that malays and indians tend to sign on as regulars in civil defence,police and military more than Chinese?
It just seems that a lot of policemen i see or Cisco guards all Malay or Indian,then also a lot of regulars seem to be Malay or Indian,though the majority is still Chinese.
What is the policy of Mindef and SAF regarding Muslims serving in sensitive areas or departments,like MSD or ISD or any covert/special/elite forces like SOF,STAR or Special Task Squadron,if any?
I know that we have the token Malay in the RSAF,for the sake of politics.
The matter was brought in Parliament and LHL has stated the rationale behind the policies regarding the deployment of servicemen of various ehtnic background in the armed forces. Please go and read up.
I've friends of mixed-parentage. They are proud of it because it also gives them the best of both worlds. I think its a matter of self-respect and perception. You dun have to bother with what others think or say. -
Regardless of whether i am Malay serving in the army, i am proud to serve my nation lor
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very simple la, chinese dont like these types of jobs compared to the other racesOriginally posted by Sardaukar:Is it me or does it seem that malays and indians tend to sign on as regulars in civil defence,police and military more than Chinese?
It just seems that a lot of policemen i see or Cisco guards all Malay or Indian,then also a lot of regulars seem to be Malay or Indian,though the majority is still Chinese.
What is the policy of Mindef and SAF regarding Muslims serving in sensitive areas or departments,like MSD or ISD or any covert/special/elite forces like SOF,STAR or Special Task Squadron,if any?
I know that we have the token Malay in the RSAF,for the sake of politics. -
Eh, i agree that such racial topics SHOULD and MUST be discussed by perhaps this is not the right place??
This forums allow people to post freely without moderation UNTIL a moderator comes along and decides the appropriate course of action. Such topics must be discussed but they can easily breakdown into a mess of inflammatory remarks... sparking off racial disputes...
perhaps in a forum where people meet face to face (and thus assume greater accountability for their words and deeds) then such a sensitive topic can be fruitfully discussed...
my2cents -
in 93, my unit has no malay(me no CDO), no muslim and oni a few indian... after that intake, not enough chinese haha... few years later ppl from other country make noise on why CDO no malay, no muslim... than news come out we have malay and muslim in CDO, but they din say what they do insideOriginally posted by NeonTetra:confidential info...
... their vocation cdo medic, btw all cdo are X-train 
than that year, NDP commander, a malay muslim pes C Lt COL...
sad
what can i say... -
no malay in cdo?Originally posted by Joshua1975:in 93, my unit has no malay(me no CDO), no muslim and oni a few indian... after that intake, not enough chinese haha... few years later ppl from other country make noise on why CDO no malay, no muslim... than news come out we have malay and muslim in CDO, but they din say what they do inside ... their vocation cdo medic, btw all cdo are X-train
than that year, NDP commander, a malay muslim pes C Lt COL...
sad what can i say...
during my intake in 93, there were 4 to 5 malays during bmt, 2 of them make it through and one becomes a sect. comd. he currently holds the rank of 2nd sgt and leads a lrrp team.
no matter what ethnic u r, as long as u r willing to protect the country, we'll fight side-by-side. -
I think these issues have to be discuss openly to clear any mistrust, misconception or misunderstanding anybody might have.Originally posted by NeonTetra:this thread shld be closed as it is bulit upon foundations of unrest.
Anyway, anybody manage to find the article with LHL reply to Habibie's remarks ? -
You mean late 93? Yes... all those willing to fight for our 'home' will...Originally posted by lion02:no malay in cdo?
during my intake in 93, there were 4 to 5 malays during bmt, 2 of them make it through and one becomes a sect. comd. he currently holds the rank of 2nd sgt and leads a lrrp team.
no matter what ethnic u r, as long as u r willing to protect the country, we'll fight side-by-side.
sad ... what can i say, me not the one who decide who go where and common lets face it, the brith rate of chinese is still low to make up one full SIB, even to make one BN oso not enough. If it is to carry out this way, we will have oso 1 full BN make up of Indians and Malays. Just like that unit of my, my sister BN intake have one full PL of Malays guys.
Let not get work up over this... it just a facts we must face, malay, indian or chinese. I myself have many malay, muslim malay, indian frineds as well and all of them know this very well and have oso shown they are good Singaporean. My last unit goes into resrve as PF and I have malays guys and add up to be section plus and we still get the job done. We can oni write it out here but open discussion will never be done openly by the top ppl.
Anyone here who cannot think, we cannot blame them. Whoever created this topic, I hope the intention is to clear up misconception and not any social unrest. -
June 93.Originally posted by Joshua1975:You mean late 93? -
maybe wrong posting hahaha... should go to my unit lar... ... ... joking oniOriginally posted by lion02:June 93.
It a facts we all have to face. -
more up-to-date figures:Originally posted by lion02:no malay in cdo?
during my intake in 93, there were 4 to 5 malays during bmt, 2 of them make it through and one becomes a sect. comd. he currently holds the rank of 2nd sgt and leads a lrrp team.
no matter what ethnic u r, as long as u r willing to protect the country, we'll fight side-by-side.
jan '03 intake - 1 malay ( medic )
jun '03 intake - 0 malay
jan '04 intake - 2+ malays from what i've seen at the cookhouse
jun '04 intake - dunno, recruits all look the same...
btw i agree with lion02, i personally don't think race is or should be an issue. but then of course i'm speaking from the ground level and i suppose i could see why the higher-ups have fears of a potential 5th column kind of scenario.
and i think most of us are mature enough to discuss sensitive issues like race in a sensible manner. these issues are relevant and sweeping them under the carpet and refusing to talk about it isn't going to help. if it gets out of hand, then that's what the moderators are around for, innit? the topic shouldn't be closed summarily just because it deals with race, as some posters are advocating. -
Let's clear up some misconceptions that some ppl still have.
1) There ARE Malay officers in the SAF. And I don't mean just small fry 2LT or LTA.
2) There ARE Malays pilots in RSAF. No, not just C130 but even F-16 pilots.
3) There ARE Malays in the Commandos.
4) Malays ARE allowed to handle heavy weapons. I know of someone who's a 106mm recoiless gun instructor.
Also, I know some ppl say things like how come no Malays in combat engineer units or armour units. I can't speak for armour since I'm not from there. I however was from HQ ARMCEG & I can tell you that there ARE Malays in Transport coy & Maintenance coy.
Ok, so some might argue that TPT & Maint are not combat side. Whatever. But its still an engineer unit is it not? So its inaccurate to say there are no Malays in engineer units.
The way I see it, if SAF is so worried about Malays & question their loyalty (like some ppl have claimed), they will not risk allowing Malays to become Commandos. The fact that there are Malay CDOs shows that obviously SAF does trust them enough to give them access to such an elite unit.
While I don't see anything wrong with discussing about race as long as its not with the intention to incite racial disharmony, I feel its a waste of time. The only ppl capable of answering your questions are not here. -
logistics and support may seem less glamorous... BUT ITS the MOST CRITICAL arm of ANY ARMED FORCES!Originally posted by esesce:Let's clear up some misconceptions that some ppl still have.
1) There ARE Malay officers in the SAF. And I don't mean just small fry 2LT or LTA.
2) There ARE Malays pilots in RSAF. No, not just C130 but even F-16 pilots.
3) There ARE Malays in the Commandos.
4) Malays ARE allowed to handle heavy weapons. I know of someone who's a 106mm recoiless gun instructor.
Also, I know some ppl say things like how come no Malays in combat engineer units or armour units. I can't speak for armour since I'm not from there. I however was from HQ ARMCEG & I can tell you that there ARE Malays in Transport coy & Maintenance coy.
Ok, so some might argue that TPT & Maint are not combat side. Whatever. But its still an engineer unit is it not? So its inaccurate to say there are no Malays in engineer units.
The way I see it, if SAF is so worried about Malays & question their loyalty (like some ppl have claimed), they will not risk allowing Malays to become Commandos. The fact that there are Malay CDOs shows that obviously SAF does trust them enough to give them access to such an elite unit.
While I don't see anything wrong with discussing about race as long as its not with the intention to incite racial disharmony, I feel its a waste of time. The only ppl capable of answering your questions are not here.
without logistic and support... even the best front line army units will eventually crumble...
if SAF dont trust malays... they would be CRAZY to even have them in log and sup side!
if the malays are not trusted... SAF would do an IRAQ(shite) or USSR(non-russian) on them... by placing them on "malay" frontline infantry and guards!.... to use them later either as baits or cannon fodder.... to wear down the enemy.... and throw them away after they are no longer useful....
but no.... SAF aint racist... however.. i do admit that they are cautious.... and i think a singaporean malay would appreciate such caution as well... afterall.. can any malays vouch that all malays are loyal to singapore? we chinese... cant even vouch that our neighbour is loyal!