RSN Expansion ieas
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Hold a squadron? A squadron providing a 2nd strike capability? You got to be joking. The only true way to defend against a strike at airbases or airfields is to pre-empt them. Hit them before they get it off. Once you lost the control of the skies, don't talk about second strike capability you've lost the momentum.Originally posted by Sardaukar:With MY Astros,our airfields are vulnerable,and no matter how hardened or reinforced,if you bomb our runways long enough,they are still going to take time to repair.Same goes for our secret runways posing as roads,though nobody knows the majority of them.
We should have a 2nd strike capability for the RSAF,like some form of submerged platform out at sea or something a small aircraft carrier of sorts that can perhaps hold a squadron, that just stays out at the Southern Islands,to provide 2nd strike capability.
we could also think of converting a freighter or oil tanker to a helicarrier,perhaps modify our Apaches to allow naval operations?The Brits are doing that around now. -
More thick armour makes ships heavier, heaver ship needs more power and better engines. And the result? More money. And also, so what if there is more armour? It's just like building thicker hulls for aircraft so that crushes will not be that bad. How thick can your armour go? It might protect the ship, its crew, but once a ship suffers a direct hit from a missile, it is hardly combat effective anymore. I think it is wiser to use the money to build more ships, not invest on armour.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:ECM doesn't work 100% and A-MM doesn't always hit the missile
The last bet would be a ARMOR , if u got thicker armor , more lifes saved , thin armor more pple die
using a M1 Abrams and a Bionix as a example ,
which tank would u prefer to sit inside in time of a war?
A M1 tanks in which has been tested with RPG 7 and Bullets and cannons
or a locally built ST Bionix 17.5 tonnes newbie?
i'll take the M1 Tank , thank you =) just compare the thickness of the armor!
anyway the delta frigates are definitely going to be made of plastics..
anyway i believe the bionix was build to counter rifle shots and pistol fire
and not for countering RPG -7 ...
Anyone here did a TESTING of RPGs on Bionix?
care to share a little of the results?
my bet would be the rpg would completely vaporize the bionix
And why compare an M-1 with a Bionix? The Abrams is a main battle tank while the Bionix is an IFV.
Why not a the Bionix with the Bradley?
Rpg 'completely vaporize' Bionix? The most it cld do is immobilise it. -
I will be LOL with u if its 300 hundred malaysian robbers that make their way to Pulau Ubin..Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:LOL even the malaysian robbers can escape to Pulau ubin..
Watching their Astros 24/7??
LOL
Even spy satellites got problem tracking down cause of its camoflage..
Spy satellites can only detect those nuclear facilities which emit radiation
etc etc...
UAV is definitely impossible cuz it can be detected and low flying.
If mini robbers can escape and land at ubin..you think can really detect??
How can 3 robbers causes u to have doubt upon Spore's capability?
Did u know that there are about a few hundred thousands of illegal Indonesian immigrants in Malaysia? Most of these people just take boats from Sumatra and travel across the straits of malacca undetected... so can we also conclude that Malaysia is impotent?
Thanks for enlightening me that spy satellites are only for nuclear facilities.
Did I mention UAV in my previous post?
I also did not say that our people are specifically watching over their Astros 24/7. I am refering to whole MY. Their airforce ,navy and army.
If there is any unsual troops movement in the north, our SAF will know and act accordingly.
FYI we are also been watched by MY 24/7. -
please lor ...
its either UAV or Spy satellites or spy planes...
cannot be spy satellite so has to be UAV to monitor them
unless we got spies..which is impossible
eh just tell u something
RPG can only imbolize bionix?
dun say joke leh..
M1 Abrams more heavier which means more steel inside..
also kana immobilize and hit badly..
Bionix is so lightly armoed just 1 RPG confirmed vaporize..
anyway u got tested RPG-7 on the bionix b4?
dun tok cock lar
if armor really sucks man ...den why so much fuss about our unarmored LSV?
mights well equip a bofors gun to a tibs bus and bring it to other countries for war??hahaha....
please lor the time when u ENTER into a battle you would wish u were sitting inside M1 Abrams..enuf said..i don't wanna sit into a bionix and enter into a
battle that is if i have a choice..
its the same...the day which u have to take out ur pistol for a fight is the day u wished u had a rifle with u
please lor at stop talking cock la...if they just build 1 base at JB...how to scramble? 3 seconds after take off reach here liao hahahahahahah
maybe AWAC might work but ley ..AWAC only detect air and not sea...and land....the methods u are mentioning here might be unconventional lor like spies? lol
definitely disagree lor...our AWACs can't stay flying every day lol...Scramble oso at least take 5 minutes, ( pple are not so dumb to atk during working hours)
if sleeping at air force base prolly 5 minutes scrambling time is ok bah..
if conventional lets say take 15 minutes to drive to reach air base
and get ready and if the plane cruise at Mach 1.5 or 1600km/hour lets say la...about 300km from us
if AWACs detect at 200km away... and give alert at when the plane reach about 160km away , that means less then 6 minutes gotta reach up to skies and counter attack , and by then the place which they will be engaging will be above SG Skies ! and lets say if the AWACs were flying somewhere around Malacca' strait or wherever and nowadays planes can cruise at Mach 2 without problems with external fuel tanks
That means if conventional take 15 minutes to arrive la....
that means 9 minutes behind time..
anyway most likely the base will be located at JB..lol
aiyah lemme tell u wad...sponsor every fighter pilot 1 porsche so can scramble
audi is too slow liao!! -
...your rambling all over the shop.AWACs can fly 24hours.If not why do countries invest in them?All you need is to allocate an overlapping schedule.
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i meaning scrambling jet fightersOriginally posted by LazerLordz:...your rambling all over the shop.AWACs can fly 24hours.If not why do countries invest in them?All you need is to allocate an overlapping schedule.
i thought AWACs don't fly on grave yard timings?
o.O maybe i was wrong..pai seh -
Watching does not mean really "see" them.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:please lor ...
its either UAV or Spy satellites or spy planes...
cannot be spy satellite so has to be UAV to monitor them
unless we got spies..which is impossible
Which country will fly UAV over another country during peace time? SAF is not so crazy yet.
Intelligence is not limited to satellites and spy plane. "Watching" in military intelligence can also refer to listening.
Unusual high communication traffic on their military net can be fishy and mean something.
I can't tell u much because I also don't know the details but I'm pretty sure that there are groups of people in the SAF covering that area. Listening to MY's military net 24/7. -
now i know wad is Electronic defense mean...thx..
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SibeiSuayKia amuses me.
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Building a warship is an exercise in engineering and if you've never encountered engineering issues before here's the deal. Engineering is an exercise in compromises. Nobody these days works with unlimited funds unless you're working for Marvel Comic's S.H.I.E.L.D organisation. So we can chuck out any solutions with nuclear-powered powerplants and stick with diesel turbine engines.
Let's do a review of your emphasis on armor.
More armor = more mass on a ship
As any physics guy will know,
more mass = need more power to drive that thing and maneuver
more power = bigger/more efficient/more powerful engines/powerplants
Also since you're carrying more weight and need more power, it's safe to assume it should consume more fuel than a less armored warship of similar size and same powerplant.
more fuel = more space needed to put in fuel = less space for weapons and personnel and other cool stuff you need to make war = less capable ship.
Since we're assuming missile attacks which can cut any thickness of armor down to size, the best compromise is to make the hull just a little more thick enough for structural integrity for operational parameters. Or at least make the "armor" thick enough to withstand small arms fire.
All these are factors which are addressed by engineers and designers. Navies deliver specs; designers deliver a design based on specs and engineers do the hardwork of trying to figure out the actual implementation from the designs. And all have to be within the Navy's budget.
From my very simplified analysis, armor doesnt work. The only credible implementation I can think of to increase warship safety when hit by a missle is to have a double hull, a lot of compartmentalisation, and a crew which is highly trained in damage control just like they do in Typhoon class submarines.Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:ECM doesn't work 100% and A-MM doesn't always hit the missile
The last bet would be a ARMOR , if u got thicker armor , more lifes saved , thin armor more pple die
using a M1 Abrams and a Bionix as a example ,
which tank would u prefer to sit inside in time of a war?
A M1 tanks in which has been tested with RPG 7 and Bullets and cannons
or a locally built ST Bionix 17.5 tonnes newbie?
i'll take the M1 Tank , thank you =) just compare the thickness of the armor!
anyway the delta frigates are definitely going to be made of plastics..
anyway i believe the bionix was build to counter rifle shots and pistol fire
and not for countering RPG -7 ...
Anyone here did a TESTING of RPGs on Bionix?
care to share a little of the results?
my bet would be the rpg would completely vaporize the bionix -
If armor don't work den ask SWAT team dun wear bullet proof vest lor..
since more energy needed and more strength and it hinders down the speed.
listening to MY's military net 24/7??
lol didn't know our ISD pple can listen and speak malay lol -
ISD? What ISD?Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:If armor don't work den ask SWAT team dun wear bullet proof vest lor..
since more energy needed and more strength and it hinders down the speed.
listening to MY's military net 24/7??
lol didn't know our ISD pple can listen and speak malay lol
Did u know Malay is our National Language? If we can train pilots and commandos, how difficult it is to train ppl to listen and speak our national language? lol... -
Eh this is sgforums not my forums...
oi u wrong frequency la
our national language is ENGLISH Btw.
and btw commandos don't learn malay -
dunno why leh... since the regulars left, a lot of pple talking cock around here...Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:Eh this is sgforums not my forums...
oi u wrong frequency la
our national language is ENGLISH Btw.
and btw commandos don't learn malay
singapore's NATIONAL language is officially, MALAY.
that is why drill commands are given in MALAY.
but ALL FOUR languages spoken by the 4 main races are recognised. that is why, on national day, u have broadcast with voice-overs in FOUR languages on different channels.
singapore's language of ADMINISTRATION, is ENGLISH.
think before u post... its all nonsense from u so far. -
sibeisuaykia, you're one big cock-talker. cannot train our guys in SIGINT to speak malay? even my chinese parents can speak malay. beside, even though they're malaysia, they also not as stupid as you to use malay in their military network. why do police wear bullet proof vests? because bullets can do damage to them. why don't ships have substantial armour? sorry ah, the battleship age was like 50years ago. missles of today are designed to do a pop-up manouvere before hitting the top or the superstructure of the ship, which would be super impractical to armour against missles. i guess only in your dreams could windows withstand an exocet's huge warhead. yes, awacs can stay airborne for a very long time, and with rotating shifts there is coverage 100% of the time, and that exactly is the reason why RSAF didn't get any fewer than 4 hawkeyes. oh, and yes, awacs can and do track sea and surface targets. how do you think the fokker 50s can fire their over the horizon harpoon missles? bionix get hit by an rpg will be destroyed? you think mindef is some dumb cock ah? doyou even know what rpg stands for? its a rocket-propelled-GRENADE. if it hits a blackhawk's rotors, definatly will crash, but pls, a bionix? an ARMOURED-personel-carrier getting destroyed by a rpg? no way. and if you're thinking why armour a bionix and don't heavily armour a ship, you obviously can't compare shells and rpgs to harpoon missles.
personally, one thing the RSN should look into and try to get is a sea based airborne attack unit. just like what the royal navy is doing by making the apache fully sea capable. -
Originally posted by branzzz:
just to be objective, i don't think its absolutely impossible... its not just a grenade... its a HEAT warhead...
bionix get hit by an rpg will be destroyed? you think mindef is some dumb cock ah? doyou even know what rpg stands for? its a rocket-propelled-GRENADE.
bionix stands a fighting chance against it cos of the armour design... dun think its open domain so lets not talk about it...
but in wartime, murphy's law applies so i think if u hit the right spot enough, u can score a mobility kill and then move in to slowly take it apart... thats bad enough already.if it hits a blackhawk's rotors, definatly will crash, but pls, a bionix? an ARMOURED-personel-carrier getting destroyed by a rpg? no way. and if you're thinking why armour a bionix and don't heavily armour a ship, you obviously can't compare shells and rpgs to harpoon missles.
yup... its not impossible... trash the tracks, then slowly maul it to pieces. M113 is an ARMOURED personel carrier also... its well known that it can only withstand small-arms fire... up to 7.62mm...
with ships, i agree with u... u're better off making them smaller, stealthier and faster and armed with more missiles on each one... -
Heavier armour might be good for Tanks... I dunno
But heavier armour for ships is useless... A missile doesn't need to hit a ship to make her sink... With a missile just scrap pass the upperdeck is enough to cause considerable damage, like in Faklands War... Like how HMS Sheffield goes to her graveyard... And no matter how heavier your armour is with the velocity (at least Mach 0.
of the most missile which is traveling it can pierce through it easily... Once it pierce through the ship's hull, even it doesn't detonate, it will cause great damage and needs a hell lotsa and tough damage control and will cripple the ship...
thus how thick does the hull needs to be just needs to satisfy the ship's requirement to tolerate against the level of sea state it wants and displacement...
the best protection against incoming missile, i think it's still ECM and ECCM...
Anti Missile Missile or CIWS is also a good help -
anyway for RSN to be efficient and to win in any conflict, i think the most important is the people it has...
With the current ship culture of some or most ship... I serious doubt the crew's loyalty and resolve... If u were ever in the Navy then u will know...
The competency of some crew's in their own vocation's system, eg. GFCS, C2 which are important in war situation are seriously lacking... And they are not juniors or NSF but regulars with ard 3 yrs of service... -
oh...whats wrong?Originally posted by Arena:anyway for RSN to be efficient and to win in any conflict, i think the most important is the people it has...
With the current ship culture of some or most ship... I serious doubt the crew's loyalty and resolve... If u were ever in the Navy then u will know...
The competency of some crew's in their own vocation's system, eg. GFCS, C2 which are important in war situation are seriously lacking... And they are not juniors or NSF but regulars with ard 3 yrs of service... -
Singapore's 1st tank u expect us to have super armor which can resist RPGOriginally posted by branzzz:sibeisuaykia, you're one big cock-talker. cannot train our guys in SIGINT to speak malay? even my chinese parents can speak malay. beside, even though they're malaysia, they also not as stupid as you to use malay in their military network. why do police wear bullet proof vests? because bullets can do damage to them. why don't ships have substantial armour? sorry ah, the battleship age was like 50years ago. missles of today are designed to do a pop-up manouvere before hitting the top or the superstructure of the ship, which would be super impractical to armour against missles. i guess only in your dreams could windows withstand an exocet's huge warhead. yes, awacs can stay airborne for a very long time, and with rotating shifts there is coverage 100% of the time, and that exactly is the reason why RSAF didn't get any fewer than 4 hawkeyes. oh, and yes, awacs can and do track sea and surface targets. how do you think the fokker 50s can fire their over the horizon harpoon missles? bionix get hit by an rpg will be destroyed? you think mindef is some dumb cock ah? doyou even know what rpg stands for? its a rocket-propelled-GRENADE. if it hits a blackhawk's rotors, definatly will crash, but pls, a bionix? an ARMOURED-personel-carrier getting destroyed by a rpg? no way. and if you're thinking why armour a bionix and don't heavily armour a ship, you obviously can't compare shells and rpgs to harpoon missles.
personally, one thing the RSN should look into and try to get is a sea based airborne attack unit. just like what the royal navy is doing by making the apache fully sea capable.
USA's tank building more den 50 years and still problems come out..
design no good etc etc
USA build tanks for 50 years..the m1 abrams oso will get quite damage in the side if get hit.
Singapore's 1 light armoured tank somemore and 1st one.
i saw the hell before, in army open house , not really that protective
i will only believe you if Mindef tested a RPG on a bionix armor
or if i ever get to sit in 1 and survive a combat. "ever"
Anyway i believe now in singapore...i think less then 20% would speak
the "National" Language
I believe armor now..is still important , but to certain extent, for example
if courageous had better armor , its back would not be sheared off -
Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:
the BX was designed and tested with survivability in mind... it CAN survive an RPG blast.
i will only believe you if Mindef tested a RPG on a bionix armor
or if i ever get to sit in 1 and survive a combat. "ever"
u see and touch the BX, it LOOKS flimsy... but the way to defeat RPG is NOT with thicker armour... if u knew how a HEAT warhead works, u'll know exactly what that means.
its a known principle of warfare... bigger guns always leads to attempts to make better shields... eventually, the guns always wins. so the way to defeat the guns is to outsmart it, not to deflect it.I believe armor now..is still important , but to certain extent, for example if courageous had better armor , its back would not be sheared off
if the courageous had better armour, it will probably be underwater now. more armour = heavier, less nimble boat... the courageous was able to avoid a direct collission because it is light and agile...
a few seconds slower and it would have slammed into the hull of the ANI indonesia... SPLAT... like fly on a windscreen... thicker armour would've slowed it down and killed it. -
BX is designed to survive a RPG blast..i know but did u really test it??Originally posted by CX:the BX was designed and tested with survivability in mind... it CAN survive an RPG blast.
u see and touch the BX, it LOOKS flimsy... but the way to defeat RPG is NOT with thicker armour... if u knew how a HEAT warhead works, u'll know exactly what that means.
its a known principle of warfare... bigger guns always leads to attempts to make better shields... eventually, the guns always wins. so the way to defeat the guns is to outsmart it, not to deflect
if the courageous had better armour, it will probably be underwater now. more armour = heavier, less nimble boat... the courageous was able to avoid a direct collission because it is light and agile...
a few seconds slower and it would have slammed into the hull of the ANI indonesia... SPLAT... like fly on a windscreen... thicker armour would've slowed it down and killed it.
damn why not we secretly sell 20 of them to taiwan and if it gets destroy..
we will know the answer
Haiz robocop is so outdated =/
robocop is just the ultimate reminder of what ultimate armor could do
Courageous is nimble and agile definitely , thicker armour would slow it down , how about enough armor at that time so that it becomes slow so it can break before even coming close to ANL? -
you meant, brake? more armour=more weight=more inertia. if you've even been to a sec sch physics lesson you'll learn this, sound like you dropped out at psle though. you try putting on more armour and it'll take even longer to brake. you've touched a bionix and you know it cannot withstand an rpg? wow, saf should recruit you as a tangkee.
Singapore's 1st tank u expect us to have super armor which can resist RPG
USA's tank building more den 50 years and still problems come out..
design no good etc etc
USA build tanks for 50 years..the m1 abrams oso will get quite damage in the side if get hit.
Singapore's 1 light armoured tank somemore and 1st one.
i saw the hell before, in army open house , not really that protective
i will only believe you if Mindef tested a RPG on a bionix armor
or if i ever get to sit in 1 and survive a combat. "ever"BX is designed to survive a RPG blast..i know but did u really test it??
wah, with these two statements you just contradicted yourself. you don't know how armour works but you touch can know it won't withstand. then suddenly you knew and tested other ppl's credibility. joker la you.
damn why not we secretly sell 20 of them to taiwan and if it gets destroy..
we will know the answer -
Originally posted by SibeiSuayKia:
how many times do u have to piss all over yourself before someone tells u to hold it out when u pee???
BX is designed to survive a RPG blast..i know but did u really test it??
do u know HOW a HEAT warhead works?
don't talk cock until u answer the question... do u know how a HEAT warhead works?Courageous is nimble and agile definitely , thicker armour would slow it down , how about enough armor at that time so that it becomes slow so it can break before even coming close to ANL?
u wanna redefine the laws of friction and inertia??? for your info, the only way a ship can stop is not by pulling on a handbrake like a car... the only way it can stop is by putting the screws in reverse... forget dropping anchor... at that speed, your anchor chain will break. u only drop anchor AFTER u stop...
so under the best circumstances, it will take a few minutes before it will start to slow down... and the heavier the ship, the longer this will take.
the Courageous was fast. they were lucky to get away with only the stern sliced off. if they were slow, they would've slammed into the hull of the ANI Indonesia... no armour can help u oredy... -
lets say a aircarrier slammed into the hull of ANI indonesiaOriginally posted by CX:u wanna redefine the laws of friction and inertia??? for your info, the only way a ship can stop is not by pulling on a handbrake like a car... the only way it can stop is by putting the screws in reverse... forget dropping anchor... at that speed, your anchor chain will break. u only drop anchor AFTER u stop...
so under the best circumstances, it will take a few minutes before it will start to slow down... and the heavier the ship, the longer this will take.
the Courageous was fast. they were lucky to get away with only the stern sliced off. if they were slow, they would've slammed into the hull of the ANI Indonesia... no armour can help u oredy...
and courageous slammed into the hell of ani indonesia
which 1 do u expect to be more heavily damage
the answer proves my point
the HEAT means high explosive anti tank
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEAT
and btw those 2 statements do not contradict myself
the 1st and 2nd post , were in replies to different pple
the 2nd post is for in replying cuz i was doubtful about bionix armor capabilities
the 1st is talking about ST's tank building experience
1st tank and walking on untested ground.
somemore no test firing on it
and bionix don't have reactive armour! how to counter latest version of russian RPG-7
o.O