NSMen Seeking Downgrade
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Hi,
I have always been a good soldier. So much so that they want to send me to SCSC after finishing 10 years with my Reservist Battalion.
I am very scared and am desperate to find legal ways to get out of service. I am not surprice if my employer fires me if i continue going on 3-4 weeks military breaks every year. I figured out the best way is to seek a medical downgrade.
Can someone advise me how to go for a medical downgrade? What are the common downgrade ailments and which doctor is best in this area.
Chrs,
Mike
P/s : You can reach me direct at [email protected]. I am open to any proposals you can give me. -
u can talk to your CO or OC abt your problem mah
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Spoken. But they give me that type of SOP answer... "its duty call" kind of bull shit.
At the end, they just concerned if they can fill up the KAH slots for the Bn / Bde. They are not bother with my individual problems.
I really feel cheated. -
no suprise there. what u need to do is to find any problem, preferably back problems or old injuries which u may have. Go see a specialist about it, get letters for a downgrade etc. Also, make a case and complain to your Member of Parliment. With the elections coming up soon, u'd be suprised what they can do for u.Originally posted by michealteo:Spoken. But they give me that type of SOP answer... "its duty call" kind of bull shit.
At the end, they just concerned if they can fill up the KAH slots for the Bn / Bde. They are not bother with my individual problems.
I really feel cheated. -
Thanks HENG.
What are the common ailments that a old soldier may have? I have pains everywhere, but which would give me the best chance and least trouble? I don't mind going for a few x-rays and checks, but definitely not serious operations or incisions.
Any famous doctors to recommend? Money is not the problem. -
claim u seem to have a migrane when u have to do straineous activities, such as having to do physical tasks under the hot sun. Also, old sprains, and creaky joints r quite common.Originally posted by michealteo:Thanks HENG.
What are the common ailments that a old soldier may have? I have pains everywhere, but which would give me the best chance and least trouble? I don't mind going for a few x-rays and checks, but definitely not serious operations or incisions.
Any famous doctors to recommend? Money is not the problem. -
Just ask your employer to write a letter of deferment, in which he say how much he need you at work, and the company will suffer losses if you are call away.Originally posted by michealteo:Hi,
I have always been a good soldier. So much so that they want to send me to SCSC after finishing 10 years with my Reservist Battalion.
I am very scared and am desperate to find legal ways to get out of service. I am not surprice if my employer fires me if i continue going on 3-4 weeks military breaks every year. I figured out the best way is to seek a medical downgrade.
Can someone advise me how to go for a medical downgrade? What are the common downgrade ailments and which doctor is best in this area.
Chrs,
Mike
P/s : You can reach me direct at [email protected]. I am open to any proposals you can give me.
Well it works, as my former boss very mean one, she alway write in till for 3 year in a row I don't get to go reservist. -
YOu sure? She must write at least 2 letters of deferment each year.Originally posted by storywolf:Just ask your employer to write a letter of deferment, in which he say how much he need you at work, and the company will suffer losses if you are call away.
Well it works, as my former boss very mean one, she alway write in till for 3 year in a row I don't get to go reservist.
First there's ICT then there's remedial ICTs for those who deferred. -
Deferrment may not be the solution. It would be too onerous to "constantly" write in to SAF. Besides, SAF could give you the motherhood statement that "we understand your work committments, but".....
You see, the bottomline is that SAF has the LEGAL right to call you back.
So i am trying to go by the LEGAL way... that a sick person should be EXCUSE from strenous military activities. -
I think it also depend on your unit.Originally posted by storywolf:Just ask your employer to write a letter of deferment, in which he say how much he need you at work, and the company will suffer losses if you are call away.
Well it works, as my former boss very mean one, she alway write in till for 3 year in a row I don't get to go reservist.
It doesn't work for my unit leh.. can defer but they will ask you to come back for make up training.. -
Legally, confirm if you've officially volunteered, or "got volunteered" to extend your reservist stint. There's this SAF scheme called ROVERS, or Reservists On Voluntary Extended Reserve Service, which requires an initial 3-year commitment for the qualified who're "keen enough"; find out if your status comes under this category. You may be able to opt-out if you weren't partial to making the decision yourself in the 1st place.
I don't think a medical downgrade can achieve what you want, unless it's for something truly crippling. Presumably you're already Category Z, in which case they'll likely reclassify your PES status & let you continue your military appointment - i.e. they're separate issues & not necessarily causal-linked. I mean, they don't even redeploy soldiers with hypertension to the reservist CQ/rations people nowdays (as they would during NSF). Instead, they're excused from IPPT, but otherwise carry on as usual with their kakis trying to lessen the physical workload & ensuring they take their medicine.
I think income ceiling can a bigger "deterrent" by comparison; do you make enough money that the SAF couldn't affordably call you back unless they have to?
Continue pushing both your senior officer & employer, in order to concretely reflect your unhappiness. If your boss values your work, he'll sign countless deferment requests if need be - & the 1st line of obstacle isn't actually MINDEF or the SAF, but your CO or equivalent (who'll acede to or reject your deferment). Who knows, there may not be an alternate make-up stint available if you're a KAH with a higher-level outfit. -
remember the most impt thing. ITS NEARING ELECTIONS SOON! SEEK HELP FROM YOUR MP!
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Thanks for the advice. Situation is as such :
I am not Cat Z yet; so not so old. I just started my ICT early and that's why i am in this mess.
I spoke to some many people. Even the Bde Comdr knows i not happy; but they don't think my unhappiness is so serious. Maybe they will wake up when my potential negligence as a CO results in death of servicemen. Then again, i will never allow my personal sorrows to cause lives of people; especially for such a lousy organization.
I am actually worried that after all the downgrading works; they just excuse me IPPT and still wants me to go to field. Therefore i MUST find a downgrade reason that makes me undepolyable as a combat vocationist.
Help me please. -
u can try claiming that exposure to dirt and mud cause bad rash outbreaks on your skin. anyways, they want u to become a CO?Originally posted by michealteo:Thanks for the advice. Situation is as such :
I am not Cat Z yet; so not so old. I just started my ICT early and that's why i am in this mess.
I spoke to some many people. Even the Bde Comdr knows i not happy; but they don't think my unhappiness is so serious. Maybe they will wake up when my potential negligence as a CO results in death of servicemen. Then again, i will never allow my personal sorrows to cause lives of people; especially for such a lousy organization.
I am actually worried that after all the downgrading works; they just excuse me IPPT and still wants me to go to field. Therefore i MUST find a downgrade reason that makes me undepolyable as a combat vocationist.
Help me please. -
KAHs often suffer during reservist training.If you're targeted to be CO, it may take you away for a while every workyear.
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Yes my friend. They putting me as CO after SCSC. And that is going to take me away from my work; and my Malaysian colleagues can rise and get more pay.
My boss is a Private. He is smart.... why work for a organization that demerits its own citizen? Rather be a simple Private, get done with the nonesense, so that can spend more time to make money.
Frankly, if given the choice, i would rather act blur and skive during NS days... at least i won't be suffering at this age. -
Ah-hah, the picture's clearer. I figured you would have to be an S3/XO 1st - are you one already? - deputizing behind a CO before succeeding him. That was the experience within my Arty unit.
It was also from a couple of recycled KAHs (my CO & RSM) that I learnt informally about the ROVERS scheme. FYI They elected not to "overstay" beyond their extended obligations, certainly not past age 40+. My CO, in particular, found it increasingly tough juggling both careers; his MNC job was generous with time but he found it too stressful to spend 40+ days each year attending staff-officer courses along with the regular ICTs.
Even if the scheme doesn't apply to you now, it soon will & I recommend you familiarize yourself with all of its parameters. Here's a start: http://www.mindef.gov.sg/display.asp?number=549
My CO & RSM were noticeably excused from IPPT all the way too - dunno if it was due to downgrade or Cat Z/non-FFI clearance - but otherwise "carried on as usual." That's why I forewarned a reclassified PES status may not get what you really want. Maybe there's a different standard with other combat formations, but in Arty there's no hope for a downgraded reservist gunner for a switch in vocation/appointment, as long as he can moderately sweat as he would as a civilian.
I doubt your MP can help you much either. They have some influence but tend to be too pro-establishment & cognizant of the SAF's needs. It's likely they'll bear peer pressure on you to conform instead, even as you attempt to get them to support your petition.
No go with income ceiling? The only other plausibly-effective alternative I can think of is an overseas job posting, with concrete evidence that you'll be based in another country (even Malaysia). I dunno how hardball they'll be with approving your exit permit - this area is where your MP can truly help you, for once - but logic says they can only appeal to your sense of nationalism/duty as a last resort. You have the prerogative to respond if it comes down to this.
A word, though: it's almost certain they'll hoping on utilizing you again, esp. for a SCSC-trained officer. In other words, you'll likely be put on a holding list to await your return. Does that mean you'll liable until age 50? I don't think it'll strictly apply, if the ROVERS scheme counts for anything. That's why I suggest you read up on everything you can about the latter. -
You are right. I am the S3 of a Battalion. They going to dump me in SCSC; thereafter appoint me as CO.
For avoidance of doubt, i am not under ROVERS and i am not crazy enough to volunteer for ROVERS.
Overseas posting is the best bet for clean break, but again, but such chances are low for me. That's why i have to find lobang to downgrade. Again, i would like to stress that money is not the problem; hence if anyone has some brillant ideas, i am ready to discuss.
I have thusfar figured out from your comments that the following few maybe good downgrade reasons :
1) Persistant pain in the leg joints; esp so after long walks and strenous exercise.
2) Migrane strikes under field conditions.
3) Persistant pain in the spine after long walks and carrying loads.
Guys, any more ideas will be very very welcomed!! -
I get it now - your status must be one of those recyled KAHs. Whereas your old unit would've been redeployed to PDF (or its equivalent) upon finishing its training cycle, you still have enough NS liability left to be mustered out to help break in a new outfit.
Technically, it's 13 years for general NSmen but 16 for KAHs, so you'll likely attend 2-3 ICTs with your new unit (after your SCSC course) before the SAF contact you about volunteering under ROVERS.
May I ask which combat formation you're in? My guess is you won't escape the CO promotion with a medical downgrade unless you're infantry or equivalent (at least). You can try your luck - by all means, go for a full fitness check - but there's no point in keng-ing unless you'll willing to risk your civilian reputation as well. It's gonna be a quite high-level appointment after all, & the SAF shall accord your profile reevaluation with equal seriousness.
Why not take it one step at a time instead? I dunno specifically what the peer pressure to re-upp will be like when the situation arises, but until then it's only a few years to the end of your 16-year window. -
Moxie,
1. I am in the SIR; ie a lot of walking and field activities
2. You are right abt my situation. Current BN is standing down and they want me to take on a new BN; which i thot is very unfair... after all i have serve and contributed in the past 10 years.
3. Frankly, there is not "bad reputation" of downgrading and escape CO appt. It is all dirt and no glory; in the 1st place, what glory is there to serve SAF??? I know of so many senior officers, LTC rank, who were forced to retire at age of 45 yrs old. Some became "supervisors" of security companies and i know of one who end up driving TAXI. In the commercial world, people accord repute to you wealth and power. Ask yourself, which name is more sounding in Singapore : Tommy Goh or BG Steven Wong (huh.. .who is he??)
It is a pity, but it is the flawed system which make a mockery out of the whole thing. -
Worth a try.
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SCSC ~ Some Can Some Cannot.
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Michaelteo, I sympathize with your predicament but now that the facts are established, I don't think you're in that great a quagmire that you made it out to be. Had me misconstrued there for a while ....
Basically, you can't escape these 2 truths:
- you're still on operational-ready status, unlike your other reservist cohorts who're being "stood down" & being reposted to, in reality, a non-active unit (PDF). Yes, that's depressing - blame it on the roll of the dice, that's all. It's not really different from a corporal who finished 6 ICTs after joining in midway, then had to serve 3 more ICTs with another fresh BN due to his NSman liability.
- KAHs are supposed to go for upgrading courses, period. Medical downgrading isn't going to change this, unless your fitness's reclassified down to PES C9L2 or lower (I think).
Accordingly, I don't think you should think too far ahead & then calculate on a risky, but ultimately ill-advised move. In some ways, I'm speculating instead that you can actually maneuver around with the hand you've been dealt with.
1stly, going on Medical Board takes time; I don't think you can just make an ad-hoc phone call for a review. Rather, you'll have to report sick in your next call-up (ege. SCSC course, or FFI checkup) & then ask the MO to forward your documents. In other words, there's a bureaucratic process to go through, & they'll formally board you when they're ready. Until that date, it's likely you won't be excused from your present circumstances (as long as it's not overly physical-taxing). By all means, see how far you can get out of this means, but don't expect the moon immediately.
2ndly, it's a bit SAF-backstabbing to suggest this but I think aiming for a deferment can help your case big-time. Think about it: you only have X years left in your 16-year window, & SCSC courses aren't organized impromptu. How many chances left to go for CO training if you can get yourself "postponed" from one preparatory attendance due to civilian factors?
[Skip the next part if you're already posted out or on a holding list, completely at the mercy of where the SAF could send you to.]
3rdly, I dunno if it's deliberate but my own experience indicates that it's both prevalent & preferable that an unit's KAHs recyle on TOGETHER to the new outfit, rather than breaking up the team & leaving each on his own. Thus, your CO's longevity can affect your expected promotion, in the sense that he may not formally "stand down" (& may even re-upp under ROVERS) until your own window is ending. There's a chance you may never climb higher than S3/2IC despite your new qualifications, or do CO for just 1-2 ICTs before the ROVERS people contact you. [As for suddenly being faced with 3+ week ICTs again, see "Truth 1" above.]
Take it one step at a time. Even if your worst nightmare comes true & you end up commanding a SIR unit, there's always the "delegate-down" leadership style - instead of hands-on - though you'll probably be stuck with a "condemned" rep ~smile~
Don't think I can help much more; maybe other posters can offer something ... -
aiya
juz look for specialist lor
letter more than enough to downgrade
anyway, if ur're going SCSC, then shld be of MAJ and above rank leh
MO sure gif face one lar