SOF,NDU,Police Star and Police Coast Guard Flying Fish.
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well...multi-tasking mah...policemen not only catch criminals, they also help find missing person and do things like exhibitions and stuff like datOriginally posted by esesce:I used to think that STAR was deployed only for serious crimes, while SOF was deployed for terrorist related stuff. But on Crime Watch, it was said that STAR also handles terrorists. So if there's terrorist incident, who gets called & why? SOF? STAR?
Similarly for the sea. I used to think that STS was called in for serious crimes while NDU is called in for sea borne terrorist threats. But it was said that STS is also trained in counter terrorism. And to complicate matters, STAR also has a naval arm. So if there's a sea borne terrorist threat, who gets called & why? NDU? STS? STAR?
Good grief!!
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Hi! Its likely that the differences between all the SpecOps within S'pore is basically their jurisdiction. All fire arm situations of whatever nature, robbery, kidnapping, high risk arrest, etc, are first responded by the police.
However, when terrorism is involved, it would depend on the situation & area of attack. So far, as long as its happening on S'pore's soil, SPF has every jurisdiction to carry out its duties. But if it occurs on foregin soil( Embassy, other country, etc ), international areas( Changi Airport ), then SAF has jurisdiction upon approval. Anyway, SPF & SAF work very closely when the situation concerns terrorism.
STAR team predecessor was known as Police Tactical Unit. It was disbanded after much controversy.
Naval Diving Unit has 3 cat of divers; Salvage divers, Underwater Demolition Team( UDT ) & Combat Divers( SpecOps ). Why does NDU divers the 1 always send to retrive bodies? Because PCG does not have a diving team yet.
BTW, some1 mentioned about MP should have a SpecOp team to handle AWOAL. Well, don't be suprise that they "might" already have but due to jurisdictions, its unlikely we'll ever get to see them.
Differences between PCG & RSN. RSN deploy warships whose task are closer to being border patrols while PCGs task are wider, in terms of law enforcing. -
Some of you may remember the Channel U mini serial about terrorism. When they were hunting for terrorists, STAR was sent in. But in the last episode when the terrorist held someone hostage & the HDB flat was stormed, SOF went in. Ok so it was a show but I'm sure there's some realism to it. In this case it was a HDB flat, nothing foreign. But SOF went in.
As for the difference between RSN & PCG, that we know lah. I'm talking about their counter terrorist units. RSN's NDU has combat divers. PCG has the STS. And SPF's STAR unit also has a naval arm. And all 3 are trained in counter terrorism. So if a seaborne terrorist threat exists, which of the 3 is sent & why? -
Not exactly true to say tt NDU divers are always the one sent to retrieve bodies. Depends on where the body is found. If in the sea waters, yes. But if found in water bodies inland, SCDF's DART unit will be called in instd.
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one thing still stands, this kind of job haven't been 'passed' to SPF yet...and i hope never will.Originally posted by danielle0309:Not exactly true to say tt NDU divers are always the one sent to retrieve bodies. Depends on where the body is found. If in the sea waters, yes. But if found in water bodies inland, SCDF's DART unit will be called in instd. .... -
Hmm! I too have seen that Channel i drama on terrorism. Anyway the last part of the show where the "SOF" assault a building is actually an abandon school.
Anyway, it is confusing to indentify as to which SOF is responsible for taking action when terrorism is involve. However, the point is this, as long as its not on foregin soil or international grounds, SPF STAR team has jurisdiction. However, if the situation is deem to be beyond the resources of the STAR team, then military SpecOps will take over.
The reason is simple, for a military SpecOps from whatever country, hostage rescue is a secondary duty while its primary duties remains with whatever military ops is required of them. Even U.S DELTA Force which was moulded from the Brits SAS is not primarily used for hostage rescue, as evident in the 1st Gulf war where they were used to hunt scuds & carried out recon.
Same goes for SAF's SpecOps thats why STAR team has every trainning( Sea, Air & Land ) that their military counter-part has, the differences is that SPF does not have all the supporting resources that SAF has. Also, SPF has 1 major RED TAPE that SAF doesn't, that is the LAW. Meaning that even in a terrorist ops, STAR Team does not have a shoot to kill rights. While SAF SpecOps when called upon would mean that they are engaging in WAR which means that they follow the rule of WAR allowing them to kill the enemies before they can react. Eg, a STAR Team member comes face to face with a terrorist with hostage in hand, the STAR officer can't "actually" immediately put a head shot to the terrorist, especially if the terrorist decide to surrender. For the military SpecOps, the rules would be different, the terrorist are considered as "enemies". That is why its tougher to be a STAR Team operator then a military operator.
So, the thing is this, in peace-time SAF plays a supporting role to SPF which means STAR Team is the advance anti-terror respond party. Same story goes for PCG & RSN. However, when it comes to water bound situation, PCG's STS is the advance strike team while SPF is supporting party with RSN being the reserve party. -
So when the SIA plane was hijacked, why was SOF sent instead of STAR? Was it 'cos they felt it was beyond STAR's capabilties? Or was it 'cos as you said, SOF has a different ROE & is cleared to shoot upon sight if needed? I wonder....
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From what I know,STAR will be dealing with armed robberies,hostage rescue mission,anti terrorist in Singapore only while SOF handles all international affairs like embassy rescue mission etc.Quite accurate info as I have friends who are working in the foreign affairs department.Originally posted by esesce:So when the SIA plane was hijacked, why was SOF sent instead of STAR? Was it 'cos they felt it was beyond STAR's capabilties? Or was it 'cos as you said, SOF has a different ROE & is cleared to shoot upon sight if needed? I wonder.... -
STAR was formed in the late 90s.... years AFTER the SQ incident...wah lau eh...u know history anot huh ?Originally posted by esesce:So when the SIA plane was hijacked, why was SOF sent instead of STAR? Was it 'cos they felt it was beyond STAR's capabilties? Or was it 'cos as you said, SOF has a different ROE & is cleared to shoot upon sight if needed? I wonder.... -
SOF was the anti-terror unit back then....as i have said b4 STAR wasn't formed yet when the incident happened so SOF was called. dat simple.Originally posted by Manager433:From what I know,STAR will be dealing with armed robberies,hostage rescue mission,anti terrorist in Singapore only while SOF handles all international affairs like embassy rescue mission etc.Quite accurate info as I have friends who are working in the foreign affairs department. -
the very 1st STAR team are made up of members of the ex SAF or what back than the 2nd line ppl. those NSF who are in CDO and about to ROD were offer to join the very 1st few STAR team.
they are train by SAF cadre ie to say STAR was form with the help of SAF. it was after some years that SPF take over the whole STAR. -
there's a reason for everything... this is sensitive stuff so juz stop chattin bout it nom atter how accurate u think u are
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sensitive stuff
most of the things talk in here can be found in-ter-net. those who know will stop at where he should have, no need to worry.
ppl not sure that why keep chatting on it de mah... -
Do not talk as if you know a lot about history unless you are truly an expert on history. SOC was formed on 10 Sept 1992 & it comprised of Police Task Force, Police Tactical Team & Police Dog Unit.Originally posted by chunyong:STAR was formed in the late 90s.... years AFTER the SQ incident...wah lau eh...u know history anot huh ?
PTF was formed way back in 1952 so its not entirely impossible that PTT was formed as early as the 70s or 80s. Now I have no idea when the PTT was formed, but I have reason to believe it was already operational by the time SQ117 was hijacked in 1991.
Some of you might remember this incident in the 80s where an armed robber forced his way onto a SBS bus, attacked the driver & held everyone hostage. The bus was stormed & I am pretty sure it was PTT who was involved.
So SPF already had an elite unit for handling armed criminals & hostage situations. So they could have sent PTT after the hijackers but they didn't. As in my previous post, maybe those in charge felt SOF was better trained to handle it. After all, PTT was a part time outfit comprising of men from PTF & I can only imagine they are not as well trained as STAR (which replaced it) is.
The issue here is why they sent an army "unit" instead of a police unit. Whether the police unit is STAR or PTT or watever name is not the issue. -
SOF was the anti-terror unit back thenOriginally posted by chunyong:SOF was the anti-terror unit back then....as i have said b4 STAR wasn't formed yet when the incident happened so SOF was called. dat simple.
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PTU was more of part time....dat explains...and if PTU is elite, STAR wouldn't be formed to take over it.Originally posted by esesce:Do not talk as if you know a lot about history unless you are truly an expert on history. SOC was formed on 10 Sept 1992 & it comprised of Police Task Force, Police Tactical Team & Police Dog Unit.
PTF was formed way back in 1952 so its not entirely impossible that PTT was formed as early as the 70s or 80s. Now I have no idea when the PTT was formed, but I have reason to believe it was already operational by the time SQ117 was hijacked in 1991.
Some of you might remember this incident in the 80s where an armed robber forced his way onto a SBS bus, attacked the driver & held everyone hostage. The bus was stormed & I am pretty sure it was PTT who was involved.
So SPF already had an elite unit for handling armed criminals & hostage situations. So they could have sent PTT after the hijackers but they didn't. As in my previous post, maybe those in charge felt SOF was better trained to handle it. After all, PTT was a part time outfit comprising of men from PTF & I can only imagine they are not as well trained as STAR (which replaced it) is.
The issue here is why they sent an army "unit" instead of a police unit. Whether the police unit is STAR or PTT or watever name is not the issue.
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Its PTT not PTU. And it was not that they weren't elite. The main issue was that it was a part time unit. Only when there was an incident then the men get together. STAR however is a full time unit. Incidents or not, they are there on stand by. To say that PTT is not elite is unfair 'cos for all you know, STAR could comprise of former PTT members.Originally posted by chunyong:PTU was more of part time....dat explains...and if PTU is elite, STAR wouldn't be formed to take over it. -
PTT was indeed a part-time special project detail. However, they were disbanded after much public controversy.
Many government agencies were deployed during the SQ117 hijack, including the, (then classified) STAR & EOD, SCDF, etc. Why was SPF not used in the rescue then? (1) is that onboard the plane were passengers from various countries, making it an international flight.
(2) the classification of a terrorist has never been defined that of a robber, kidnapper, rappist, etc. But they can be class as enemies( foregin ), enemies of the state( domestic ). This means soldiers can engage them & kill them without the RED TAPE of the Law. Again, its the reason why its tougher to be a STAR Team, whoses goals are rescue not kill. FYI, Happy National Day.
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who cares abt Unit or Team, its the same lah. i joined the force when PTT is already obsolete and STAR is no longer using leather thighrigs...Originally posted by esesce:Its PTT not PTU. And it was not that they weren't elite. The main issue was that it was a part time unit. Only when there was an incident then the men get together. STAR however is a full time unit. Incidents or not, they are there on stand by. To say that PTT is not elite is unfair 'cos for all you know, STAR could comprise of former PTT members.